Natural Processes

[larryshoat]

I normally don't, but I guess I'll take the bait this time:

I'm offended, when you compare my God to some mythical crap. You say you do this to stimulate intellectual debate. I'll call it what it's, you do this to stir up stink. You fancy yourself a smart man, you even hang it out there to make sure we know. You might find out on your death bed, you had a little left to learn.

Let's debate what is going to happen on my death bed. The more passionate the debate, the more entertaining. But your offense is not that interesting.

I would think the experiences of people that have been revived from death would be interesting reading for anyone wondering what death will be like. Surely we can't refute the evidence of those that have experienced death.

Larry

 

[larryshoat]

Do not doubt him CF. He is a man of very strong faith. To believe, and believe is what he does because there is nothing that he can prove or disprove, is to have faith. Not only does he have faith he also preaches what he believes. What does he believe? That everything came from nothing. He can go on and on about evolution but evolution does not explain the beginning only the results of the beginning in his opinion. To believe that everything came from nothing and evolved into this world is extreme faith. Yes I'll admit that his faith is probably stronger than mine because I can't even begin to wrap my mind around something coming from nothing. So my hats off to him. :tiphat:

Evolution, it's interesting that these great people of science base their theory on the idea that all those billions and billions of years ago something that was dead began to live, something inorganic became organic. they can't explain how that happened, they can't reproduce those results in the laboratory, but yet they go around holding themselves up as great men of science, the intellectually superior that base their explanation of the physical world on something that never happened.

Larry

 

[inyati13]

I didn't know a cow could live that long........... :mrgreen:

Gandalf huh?
Is that some sort of a code word for God, and this is really just some lightly veiled attack on some peoples' religious beliefs?

GB, this should be read in the context of other threads for it to be fully appreciated. I use Gandalf as a proxy for God. A person's vision of God is personal and likely based on one's experiences, the way one processes information,etc. I offered this as my personal vision of God and the nature in which I perceive him. Gandalf comes pretty close to how I perceive him.

I would define my message not as an attack but as a personal expression of my philosophical veiw of the Christian Doctrine. I think that is within my right. In the same way it is within the right of others who come here and express themselves on the subject of spiritual matters. None of those expressions have in the slightest way offended me. That anyone is offended by my expression of my thoughts is a problem for the one offended, not I.

Why say anything--what's the end game?--what do you achieve or get out of it?

Why? Because someone raised a question. Go to the thread "Quotes". User "Dogs and Cows" ask a question which smacks of sarcasm or at the least has a rhetorical tone. That question was followed by other questions some of which I took to be sincere. Follow the trail of that thread and I trust a person with your sense of fairness will observe that the culpability is spread around. I followed that discussion with this thread to define what I mean when I say I believe the Universe is the result of Natural Processes.

Candidly, I enjoy and entertain myself by pursuing this subject. It is a subject that offends a lot of people. I am truly and devotedly atheist. Because Deepsouth and I have had private discussions on this subject, he understands that. I am as devotedly atheist as Bigfoot is devotedly Christian.

Common to see displays of Christianity on this forum and many wear it on their sleeve. What is fair for the goose is fair for the gander. I am not offended by Christians. And let's be fair, they do their share of poking as Bigfoot calls it.

When I revealed on this forum that I am a non-believer. I received PMs of ridicule. As a result of this episode, every PM I have received has either been supportive or at a minimum advisory. I don't care either way.

I guess we know why there is a policy here of not discussing religion or politics.

PS: I like the people and the content of this forum. I enjoy the entertainment, the interaction and the information I receive here. I acknowledge that I may not share everyone's values and standards. At the same time, I have much more in common with the users here than I do with the liberal urban crowd.

PS2: I am going to defend my use of Gandalf as a proxy for a deity. A Wizard has powers of creation based on non-material acts. For example, with the wave of his staff, Gandalf can move an object. In nature, it takes a natural force to move an object such as gravity. Gandalf is a tall bearded figure, in robe and maybe even wears sandals. It was with those thoughts in mind that I use Gandalf as a proxy.

 

[greybeard]

IOW, in regards to other's religious beliefs you did it to ruffle feathers mostly--and the fact that you derive pleasure from doing so?

(you don't have to be long winded or beat around the bush--a yes or no will suffice.)

 

[inyati13]

IOW, in regards to other's religious beliefs you did it to ruffle feathers mostly--and the fact that you derive pleasure from doing so?

(you don't have to be long winded or beat around the bush--a yes or no will suffice.)

no

 

[highgrit]

Yes..

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Maybe

 

[inyati13]

IOW, FRUSTRATION.

I am frustrated that mankind continues to base daily life on mythology. That 90 % of the world follows Christianity or some other form of dogma strikes me as a waste of human potential and a misguided act of massive proportions. It is simply incredibile to me.

 

[TexasBred]

IOW, FRUSTRATION.

I am frustrated that mankind continues to base daily life on mythology. That 90 % of the world follows Christianity or some other form of dogma strikes me as a waste of human potential and a misguided act of massive proportions. It is simply incredibile to me.

Would you consider actually living by the two commandments Jesus gave us to be a waste? I see them as the answer to every earthly problem if actually lived. How does loving God take away from my potentihal? I've never felt "hindered" by my faith.

 

[M5farm]

surely I will get this locked.

Ron, Deepsouth made a valid point that while you stated you are a nonbeliever you are deeply religious, you have spend hours on here trying to convince an audience that JESUS does not exist just as Billy Graham spent his life trying to convince everyone else he does. While you continue to berate the ones that have trust in the good book as being simple and wasting their brain on mythology you are the other side of the coin. I never could understand how some people that are so smart are also the most stupid.

 

[Craig Miller]

Would you consider actually living by the two commandments Jesus gave us to be a waste?

Ron i know by the things you say on here that you already do this. And i believe the things you say because you are honest. You already believe some parts of christianity. Have you considered how some layers of rocks that were supposed to be dropped over millions of years are shaped in the same ways? Almost like they were formed at the same time and shaped right then but not slowly with plate tetonics.

 

[cowgirl8]

I believe Ron is bored with the conversations going on, so he started this thread because he knew it would stir people up. There are people like that on FB who post things just to get comments. Ron is no different, but he picked a subject he cant win.

 

[Craig Miller]

Dont misunderstand my chiming in as an attack on him. I didnt attack him last time and i wont this time nor the next. Everyone on here has a diffrent belief. What Ron stated earlier is true in that he has a stronger in what he belives than most of the christians on here. If you dont believe me then just look at the responses to him. Mostly empty attacks on him and no rebuttle to his statements. If you want to truly test what you believe and what you know about your religion then go somewhere you dont normally go and you are in the minority and try to tell someone about your religion.

 

[inyati13]

IOW, FRUSTRATION.

I am frustrated that mankind continues to base daily life on mythology. That 90 % of the world follows Christianity or some other form of dogma strikes me as a waste of human potential and a misguided act of massive proportions. It is simply incredibile to me.

Would you consider actually living by the two commandments Jesus gave us to be a waste? I see them as the answer to every earthly problem if actually lived. How does loving God take away from my potentihal? I've never felt "hindered" by my faith.

TB, The 10 commandments are fine. I would have preferred a measure of flexibility. For example, if you abide in 8 of the 10 over say the period of a year, then you get a free pass on the 2 that were violated. I had a problem with a couple of them and it would have been easier explaining it to mom if the scripture would have allowed a measure of picking and chosing. :santa:

No. I am sensitive to what your meaning. I acknowledge that the Christian Docterine provides comfort, hope and a vision for something better.

 

[inyati13]

Dont misunderstand my chiming in as an attack on him. I didnt attack him last time and i wont this time nor the next. Everyone on here has a diffrent belief. What Ron stated earlier is true in that he has a stronger in what he belives than most of the christians on here. If you dont believe me then just look at the responses to him. Mostly empty attacks on him and no rebuttle to his statements. If you want to truly test what you believe and what you know about your religion then go somewhere you dont normally go and you are in the minority and try to tell someone about your religion.

Craig. I am at the farm. I do poorly with cold fingers on a cell phone. I appreciate this comment. I thought this but didn't want it coming from me. I have had private comminications with Deepsouth and he can witness that I have a serious interest in this subject matter. I will respond later.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Dont misunderstand my chiming in as an attack on him. I didnt attack him last time and i wont this time nor the next. Everyone on here has a diffrent belief. What Ron stated earlier is true in that he has a stronger in what he belives than most of the christians on here. If you dont believe me then just look at the responses to him. Mostly empty attacks on him and no rebuttle to his statements. If you want to truly test what you believe and what you know about your religion then go somewhere you dont normally go and you are in the minority and try to tell someone about your religion.

Craig, I agree. I wrote the following as I couldn't sleep. Saved it to draft to make sure it made sense before I posted.



I am a scientist... a good scientist, one that doubts all claims. One that understands that science can make no absolute affirmations, but is limited to disproving guesses. Can you disprove all possible statements but the truth, possibly.... but that can't be known. There will always be the possibility that what you've not asked, or understand to ask is the reality. And what you believe is reality, only mimics the truth to the level that you can understand. Therefore, to believe science can disprove creation or God is a fallacy and poor science. As DS pointed out, a belief.

Science is an act to discover what was designed previously. Very slowly gaining understanding in the laws of nature is not grand intelligence, creating them is.

Like I say, I don't believe science can answer much of the harder questions in life... the ones you start asking as a kid on a summer's night staring up at the sky, realizing for the first time your daily view is so miniscule, a fragment of the universe. What's it all about type stuff.

Ron, I really would appreciate to know how you explain your emotional ties to Kris- how do you make sense of this. I have an explanation that makes perfect sense to me but I have curiosity in how you explain these things in your view. I quite enjoy mulling these things over. To me, discussion not intended to be inflammatory, can do one of two things: Reinforce my belief, or lead me to search for a more complete answer. So far, the further I've challenged my world view, the stronger it has become.

 

[skyhightree1]

This is probably a good spot to insert that little thread locking device.

:lol:

 

[M5farm]

I believe Ron is bored with the conversations going on, so he started this thread because he knew it would stir people up. There are people like that on FB who post things just to get comments. Ron is no different, but he picked a subject he cant win.

pot calling the kettle black, aint it ?

 

[skyhightree1]

 

[inyati13]

Ron, I really would appreciate to know how you explain your emotional ties to Kris- how do you make sense of this. I have an explanation that makes perfect sense to me but I have curiosity in how you explain these things in your view. I quite enjoy mulling these things over. To me, discussion not intended to be inflammatory, can do one of two things: Reinforce my belief, or lead me to search for a more complete answer. So far, the further I've challenged my world view, the stronger it has become.

CF, I appreciate your message. Your previous message was a pleasure also.

Kris and I have become very close friends. I visited FSSR this fall. We share a compassion for cattle. I admire her knowledge and skills. She has been telling me about her father. Her father spawned many of her interests and life long passions. I have been aware of her father's illness and the pain, hurt and stress that she was enduring. When my friend hurts, I hurt. I realized that words would not be enough. I only listened and talked about our cattle. Kris is strong. She has been through a battle or two and survived. I trust her to win this one.