My New SAV Bull

[CreekAngus]

Branded: if President is truly a game changer, we will find that out, not just from your herd but herds all over America. But I honestly doubt he will be, because there are three other options for basically the same genetic make up and an enormous amount of options for some of the same genetic make up. We will definitely know more at the end of the year and see if he even makes the top 25 list. I don't think we are in an era of game changers coming along, we could see it, but it's going to be very difficult with the way the breed is for a bull to come along and dominate the breed. And this is in no way me knocking President or any of his bro's, they are fine cattle. Don't get so riled up when folks don't like your favorite flavor....LOL. And we get you would be tiffed to have gotten the wrong bull, Young is satisfied with the one he got, being content is far undervalued.

Just so you know I have 1682 in the tank, lots of it, and will probably use it at some point in the future.

As for President, I may be dead wrong, hope I'm not.

If I were to have to name another bull that I think has produced some of the nicest animals we have ever had it would be Baldridge Colonel. My Colonel daughters are serious'

We had some of the first in Kentucky, if not the first in Kentucky, and they will be AI'd soon.

Colonel is one bad azz bull in my opinion.

Colonel; getting known for bad feet. If you cant run them out west shouldn't run them anywhere.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded: if President is truly a game changer, we will find that out, not just from your herd but herds all over America. But I honestly doubt he will be, because there are three other options for basically the same genetic make up and an enormous amount of options for some of the same genetic make up. We will definitely know more at the end of the year and see if he even makes the top 25 list. I don't think we are in an era of game changers coming along, we could see it, but it's going to be very difficult with the way the breed is for a bull to come along and dominate the breed. And this is in no way me knocking President or any of his bro's, they are fine cattle. Don't get so riled up when folks don't like your favorite flavor....LOL. And we get you would be tiffed to have gotten the wrong bull, Young is satisfied with the one he got, being content is far undervalued.

Just so you know I have 1682 in the tank, lots of it, and will probably use it at some point in the future.

As for President, I may be dead wrong, hope I'm not.

If I were to have to name another bull that I think has produced some of the nicest animals we have ever had it would be Baldridge Colonel. My Colonel daughters are serious'

We had some of the first in Kentucky, if not the first in Kentucky, and they will be AI'd soon.

Colonel is one bad azz bull in my opinion.

Colonel; getting known for bad feet. If you cant run them out west shouldn't run them anywhere.

Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?

Baldridge Isabel Y69 and Hoover Dam in the pedigree. Yep they are known for foot problems. Give me a break!

Real foot problems don't show up that fast, and if I were pointing fingers I would look first at the females he was used on. The Colonel daughters I have would score a near perfect for foot angle and claw set. If anything he improved their feet, as does Hoover Dam.

I'm calling bulls.t on the "if you can't run them out west" statement.

What I've noticed here is that someone starts a rumor like Protocol, a bull you like, is not producing high quality semen, and bam, everyone on CT suddenly thinks it's true, when it's obviously not, and the bull is fine.

I like facts, not rumors. It's pretty easy to trash an operation online then walk away.

Colonel has serious merit, and like the old Packard slogan goes, "Ask the man who owns one"

 

[dbirdsong]

One thing I will agree with Branded about is that the days of registering a calf to what you think it's out of and forgetting about it are over. If you are selling registered animals there is a very good chance someone will be checking parentage. I have started checking it on all the animals I retain in my heard. Last year I had a girder that I just knew was out of the AI side but to my surprise she was out of my cleanup bull. Best heifer I raised. Calved within a few days of the AI due date. A breeder that lives a few miles from me owns a bull called BC Pure Class. Google him and you will find him in stud. He raised a bull called Big Creek that Conley Angus purchased from him because he was a Pure Class son. A very nice bull but when they pulled DNA he turned out to be a Resource son. Wrong parentage is not uncommon. In that case I would prefer Resource being the sire but they were buying the bull because they thought they were buying their genetics back. Usually I believe people are being completely above board when they sell an animal with incorrect parentage. I would have sold my heifer completely believing she was an AI calf but that wouldn't have mattered much if they had found out later she wasn't. I would most likely have lost their business in the future.

 

[CreekAngus]

Branded: I was told that by three different guys, two of them run far more cattle that Branded or Creek and have progeny on the ground. The third guy owns a Semen company, I was the fourth guy in the conversation. And that was a direct quote from one of the ranchers,"If you can't run them out west you shouldn't run them anywhere".....that was said by a guy who sells over 100 bulls a year, after heavy culling and this year not a single Colonel made the sale. Does that work as a fact? I'm not a fan of Protocol, I've seen a lot of his progeny and the bull himself up front and personal, but I am a fan of Cory, grew 20 miles from me and is a legit cowboy. And Branded: once again you took far more out of post than you should have, no one trashed any operations.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Branded: I was told that by three different guys, two of them run far more cattle that Branded or Creek and have progeny on the ground. The third guy owns a Semen company, I was the fourth guy in the conversation. And that was a direct quote from one of the ranchers,"If you can't run them out west you shouldn't run them anywhere".....that was said by a guy who sells over 100 bulls a year, after heavy culling and this year not a single Colonel made the sale. Does that work as a fact? I've seen a lot of his progeny and the bull himself up front and personal, but I am a fan of Cory, grew 20 miles from me and is a legit cowboy. And Branded: once again you took far more out of post than you should have, no one trashed any operations.

Our cattle never have feet trouble because they don't have to travel like the cattle out west, not because of how they were bred. Your cattle need to work in your environment and management.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded: I was told that by three different guys, two of them run far more cattle that Branded or Creek and have progeny on the ground. The third guy owns a Semen company, I was the fourth guy in the conversation. And that was a direct quote from one of the ranchers,"If you can't run them out west you shouldn't run them anywhere".....that was said by a guy who sells over 100 bulls a year, after heavy culling and this year not a single Colonel made the sale. Does that work as a fact? I'm not a fan of Protocol, I've seen a lot of his progeny and the bull himself up front and personal, but I am a fan of Cory, grew 20 miles from me and is a legit cowboy. And Branded: once again you took far more out of post than you should have, no one trashed any operations.

Colonel is not a producer of bad feet.

I've got a list of bulls to stay away from when it comes to foot issues, and he's definitely not on it.

Isn't Spruce Mountain out west? They own a part interest in Colonel, right?

Many times what I have found in the Angus business, is that the friendly smile and handshake is anything but, people become very jealous, and they say whatever it takes to disparage an animal. I'm not saying that you did this because you were basically going on rumor.

The Angus business is about to release a foot score EPD, which will be the new category that many seed stock producers will work hard to get towards the very top. Good feet are priceless, right up there with milk and longevity. You know that. I'm sure Hoover Dam will rank very high on that EPD, and transmit that into his progeny.

Y69 doesn't have foot issues, what she does have is 147 DNA proven progeny on the ground, not too shabby. Hoover Dam, which is Colonel's grandsire has 3600+ DNA proven progeny on the ground. There is a lot of data behind Colonel. I'm not saying problems can't surface, but he is no mystery bull, with a shady background.

You are basically calling out the entire Baldridge operation, along with the owners of Colonel, who I'm pretty sure aren't novices in the Angus business, at least not judging from the animals they produce. If Baldridge can't produce a decent animal for the hardcore western rancher, then maybe you all need to switch to mules to handle the territory.

The whole "it's tougher in the west" narrative might be true, but winter in Kentucky is no walk in the park, deep mud, and months upon months of rain or snow, or both at the same time will test an animal, and test them hard. Ever seen cattle when they are covered in ice? as in it rained, then went down below freezing, so their coats are soaked with a layer of ice across their back, and they are standing in a foot of mud? This destroys feet quickly, and only the strong survive. I'm sure this happens elsewhere, but in Kentucky, it's the norm.

You may think I'm upset when I reply, but I'm just clearing the air, nothing personal at all. If I wanted to I could flip the switch and start multiplying my herd quickly to the point where I'm one of the largest if not the largest registered Angus producers in Kentucky. Right now, we are well above the average registered operation in size. Let me just say, we have the ability to expand, by multiples. Instead of saying "we run a large number of Angus, therefore we are the authority" I would much rather say, we focus on quality over quantity. Of the three different guys you mentioned along with the owner of a semen company, how many would be open for a close look at their herd's overall stats? I mean from a genomic enhanced EPD standpoint? How many of those three are enrolled in Maternal Plus and watch their herd obsessively trying to improve every epd category on every animal. My hunch, none of them, it takes too much time, and of course money. I understand. Can't keep a cow open until you get the animal you want, got to stay on a breeding window, if AI doesn't get her, then the "cleanup bull" takes over. There are a lot of cleanup bull progeny that have all-stars on the registration. A person around here pulls that nonsense. I promise if his entire herd was tested with DNA, that you would see that the dots don't connect, but it's like I've said before to one of my clients, if you buy a fake Rolex on the streets of NYC and you think it's a real Rolex, that's all that matters to some people, their happy. Let's just say that some unsuspecting commercial folks that do not have an AAA membership, nor do they DNA test their bulls, are proud owners of a "fake Rolex" if you know what I mean.

I've not seen photos of these bad feet, nor of the progeny that were culled, I don't even know if they were Colonel's progeny. Look at the Rainfall debacle. Those culled "Colonels" might have actually been "Sergeants" or even "Privates", who knows? Lot's can go wrong on big herds, there is a lot to watch out for, things can slip by, and when they aren't DNA tested, it's anyone's guess who the Daddy is contributing those bad feet.

DNA testing every single animal in a herd, especially a large herd, can become burdensome, and costly, especially when it involves many generations back. I understand, but it's the only way of letting your client know with 100% certainty what they are buying is the real deal. None of this matters at all in the commercial business, but in registered herds you owe it to yourself and your clients to test for everything.

 

[plumber_greg]

I have trouble figuring out why the potentially biggest and best Angus breeder in a whole state gets on a chat room like Cattle Today and spouts his rhetoric to us peons.
Why aren't the Schaffs, Herbsters, Sidenstrickers, and such regular visitors?
Don't they know this is where it's at?
Big feeling fish, small pond syndrome?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

You tell them Branded!! Its about time someone educated this bunch of yokels.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I have trouble figuring out why the potentially biggest and best Angus breeder in a whole state gets on a chat room like Cattle Today and spouts his rhetoric to us peons.
Why aren't the Schaffs, Herbsters, Sidenstrickers, and such regular visitors?

Those folks too busy worrying about what one or the others doing, too haunt this site..don't want to subject their cattle to a bunch of quote """keyboard Cowboys """

 

[CreekAngus]

Branded: thank you for the education, but it appeared all you did was self aggrandize and puff yourself up. Far too often you take these comments far too personal. You also put words in people's mouths they never said and chase rabbit holes no one is interested in going in. Ok, Branded, I will agree with you, since Colonel isn't on your list of bad feet and those other three guys aren't anywhere near you status in the industry, you're correct. I do have question for you, how many Colonel progeny you got on the ground? And what makes you an authority in the breed?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Branded: thank you for the education, but it appeared all you did was self aggrandize and puff yourself up. Far too often you take these comments far too personal. You also put words in people's mouths they never said and chase rabbit holes no one is interested in going in. Ok, Branded, I will agree with you, since Colonel isn't on your list of bad feet and those other three guys aren't anywhere near you status in the industry, you're correct. I do have question for you, how many Colonel progeny you got on the ground? And what makes you an authority in the breed?

Because he said so Creek!!

 

[CreekAngus]

Branded: thank you for the education, but it appeared all you did was self aggrandize and puff yourself up. Far too often you take these comments far too personal. You also put words in people's mouths they never said and chase rabbit holes no one is interested in going in. Ok, Branded, I will agree with you, since Colonel isn't on your list of bad feet and those other three guys aren't anywhere near you status in the industry, you're correct. I do have question for you, how many Colonel progeny you got on the ground? And what makes you an authority in the breed?

Because he said so Creek!!

That made me LOL.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

It was suppose to.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I have trouble figuring out why the potentially biggest and best Angus breeder in a whole state gets on a chat room like Cattle Today and spouts his rhetoric to us peons.
Why aren't the Schaffs, Herbsters, Sidenstrickers, and such regular visitors?
Don't they know this is where it's at?
Big feeling fish, small pond syndrome?

I guess you don't fully understand the web yet.

Any brand, and the one's you mentioned above are definitely a brand, are watching what is being said. I could have easily taken an anonymous screen name and trolled you guys like a cat plays with a mouse. The fact that I use my actual operation name clearly shows that I'm not lurking, and that I'm giving you far more info than you deserve about our cattle. Instead of being a troll, you should be taking notes, you may learn something.

All I can say is get with the times, Trump communicates virtually every move he makes on Twitter, and every major brand out there watches what is being said about them on the web by using Hootsuite and Google Analytics to name a few of the tracking programs.

Creek and others know better, they know that a carefully placed negative remark or rumor can spread like wildfire on the web.

Let me ask you this, did you find out about "Epic" at the feed store or by mail? Probably not, you heard it on the web instead. Bad news travels fast.

Problem is, that false rumors can cause huge, irreparable damage to an operator. If it's the truth, that one thing, but if it's sheer rumor, that nothing but gossip, and gossip can have lasting damage.

Creek would be up sh.t creek if his operation's name was plastered all over the web with nothing but negative comments by trolls. It wouldn't matter if it's the truth or not after the damage is done.

Trolls are one of the lowest life forms on the planet behind single cell organisms.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Maybe plastastering your name all over an open internet forum, and then bragging about how your cattle are the greatest thing to ever bless this earth, wasn't the best way to make friends, and infulence people.

I also find it ironic that you have spent many a post bashing, and defaming a whole states worth of cattlemen, but now find your own medicine too bitter to swallow.

 

[Ebenezer]

If I wanted to I could flip the switch and start multiplying my herd quickly to the point where I'm one of the largest if not the largest registered Angus producers in Kentucky.

When you surpass the 500 mark on brood cows, please let us know.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Maybe plastastering your name all over an open internet forum, and then bragging about how your cattle are the greatest thing to ever bless this earth, wasn't the best way to make friends, and infulence people.

I also find it ironic that you have spent many a post bashing, and defaming a whole states worth of cattlemen, but now find your own medicine too bitter to swallow.

I thought "real cattlemen" don't waste time on CT?

I'm not too worried about Kentucky cattleladies and cattlemen seeing me as the bad guy. There are those that try and do a good job with their herds and those that take their football and run home. To thy own self be true.

If you personally choose your cattle based on how friendly the seller is versus the actual merit of the animal, then good luck, you will need it to stay viable long term.

I've never said my cattle were the greatest on the planet. If that were the case I would never AI, or mention and defend other operations, I would just have a closed herd, always use my own sires and stare at myself in the mirror smiling.

If I've given people on here, or in Kentucky bad advice, please point it out to me. My advice as well as Bright Raven's would greatly improve most herds in the state. Say what you will, but it's the truth.

All I hear on CT is how tough the business is, or how this person or that person is closing shop. Have you ever wondered why? Maybe it's because average doesn't cut it, maybe resistance to new ideas is why some people are left behind. Who knows?

If you have the answers, speak up wise one, enlighten us all.

 

[plumber_greg]

I have trouble figuring out why the potentially biggest and best Angus breeder in a whole state gets on a chat room like Cattle Today and spouts his rhetoric to us peons.
Why aren't the Schaffs, Herbsters, Sidenstrickers, and such regular visitors?
Don't they know this is where it's at?
Big feeling fish, small pond syndrome?

I guess you don't fully understand the web yet.

Any brand, and the one's you mentioned above are definitely a brand, are watching what is being said. I could have easily taken an anonymous screen name and trolled you guys like a cat plays with a mouse. The fact that I use my actual operation name clearly shows that I'm not lurking, and that I'm giving you far more info than you deserve about our cattle. Instead of being a troll, you should be taking notes, you may learn something.

All I can say is get with the times, Trump communicates virtually every move he makes on Twitter, and every major brand out there watches what is being said about them on the web by using Hootsuite and Google Analytics to name a few of the tracking programs.

Creek and others know better, they know that a carefully placed negative remark or rumor can spread like wildfire on the web.

Let me ask you this, did you find out about "Epic" at the feed store or by mail? Probably not, you heard it on the web instead. Bad news travels fast.

Problem is, that false rumors can cause huge, irreparable damage to an operator. If it's the truth, that one thing, but if it's sheer rumor, that nothing but gossip, and gossip can have lasting damage.

Creek would be up sh.t creek if his operation's name was plastered all over the web with nothing but negative comments by trolls. It wouldn't matter if it's the truth or not after the damage is done.

Trolls are one of the lowest life forms on the planet behind single cell organisms.

Hopefully, you don't truly think the bigger, successful breeders troll on this forum to see what is being said about their operations!!!
If you combined all the brood cows of the regular posters, I doubt it would total 2,000 head. We're very small fish, what most on here think matters to no one.
Go to a forum like agtalk , see how you get along there telling them what they don't know.
America, SAV, all your heroes and numbers, are barely discussed. There you can advise people with a combined total of maybe 100,000 head. Guess what, they're very successful cattlemen's. I'm done. GS

 

[True Grit Farms]

Maybe plastastering your name all over an open internet forum, and then bragging about how your cattle are the greatest thing to ever bless this earth, wasn't the best way to make friends, and infulence people.

I also find it ironic that you have spent many a post bashing, and defaming a whole states worth of cattlemen, but now find your own medicine too bitter to swallow.

I thought "real cattlemen" don't waste time on CT?

I'm not too worried about Kentucky cattleladies and cattlemen seeing me as the bad guy. There are those that try and do a good job with their herds and those that take their football and run home. To thy own self be true.

If you personally choose your cattle based on how friendly the seller is versus the actual merit of the animal, then good luck, you will need it to stay viable long term.

I've never said my cattle were the greatest on the planet. If that were the case I would never AI, or mention and defend other operations, I would just have a closed herd, always use my own sires and stare at myself in the mirror smiling.

If I've given people on here, or in Kentucky bad advice, please point it out to me. My advice as well as Bright Raven's would greatly improve most herds in the state. Say what you will, but it's the truth.

All I hear on CT is how tough the business is, or how this person or that person is closing shop. Have you ever wondered why? Maybe it's because average doesn't cut it, maybe resistance to new ideas is why some people are left behind. Who knows?

If you have the answers, speak up wise one, enlighten us all.

I'll speak up, the registered Angus market has only a certain amount of buyers. All markets are set by supply and demand, insider trading helps to inflate - hold the price but that only works for awhile. The registered Angus supply is overwhelming the demand. Fact is, when you have the most of anything, usually it isn't worth the most. I can receive all the benefits of the CAB and AAA hoopla by using a $2k Angus bull on sale barn cows. Thanks Branded, make sure to keep paying your dues and fees to the AAA, a few of us might even make a dollar or two because of it.
I'm happy that some folks will work their azz off for their cattle. Myself I have a life besides cattle, even though sometimes it doesn't seem like it. Think I'll go to Florida for a few days, then off to the lake for a week.

 

[Bright Raven]

I'll speak up, the registered Angus market has only a certain amount of buyers. All markets are set by supply and demand, insider trading helps to inflate - hold the price but that only works for awhile. The registered Angus supply is overwhelming the demand. Fact is, when you have the most of anything, usually it isn't worth the most. I can receive all the benefits of the CAB and AAA hoopla by using a $2k Angus bull on sale barn cows. Thanks Branded, make sure to keep paying your dues and fees to the AAA, a few of us might even make a dollar or two because of it.
I'm happy that some folks will work their azz off for their cattle. Myself I have a life besides cattle, even though sometimes it doesn't seem like it. Think I'll go to Florida for a few days, then off to the lake for a week.

In this region of Kentucky where Brook and I reside, Angus are in every pasture. There are Angus seedstock growers on every road. In my county, I am the only registered Simmental producer. If someone wants a Simmental or Simangus bull to put on all these Angus influenced cows, it is great for Simmental producers. Everyone bad mouths "niche" markets but there are some real advantages. The Angus bull market here is very very tough. But I am having no problem selling Simmental bulls and the price has not declined. I have very small numbers so my luck has not changed. My close friend here in the County who has a small registered Angus operation is really fighting to sell her seedstock. The supply and demand concept is tough for Angus folks.