My New SAV Bull

[CattleMan1920]

Hopefully, you don't truly think the bigger, successful breeders troll on this forum to see what is being said about their operations!!!
If you combined all the brood cows of the regular posters, I doubt it would total 2,000 head. We're very small fish, what most on here think matters to no one.
Go to a forum like agtalk , see how you get along there telling them what they don't know.
America, SAV, all your heroes and numbers, are barely discussed. There you can advise people with a combined total of maybe 100,000 head. Guess what, they're very successful cattlemen's. I'm done. GS

Plumber Greg,

Don't you know Branded is the main reason Cattle Today needed to expand server space?

We literally were bringing so much increased traffic, and posting so much new content that the CT servers crashed. Seriously!

Cattle Today is just getting warmed up. The other forums are going to be dinosaurs soon. Trust me, CT is about to become THE only cattle forum that matters.

I actually have been holding back on posting because I didn't want to crash the servers again with a highly interesting thread.

I will go all out when I hear more servers have been added and get the all clear from Admin.

Peak user count was in Nov. 2018. Server upgrade had nothing to do with you, CT servers have been crap for a while, and I'm glad they finally got improved.
Can't wait for you to go "all out." :roll:

I hope you know I was joking.

 

[elkwc]

I'll add my 2 cents from what I see in this region. I agree with what Bright Raven and Branded have stated. As an Angus breeder around here you need to do something to stand out from the crowd. Except for a very few breeders you see the same product in every herd. The only difference is the prefix before the name. We have a neighbor who like Branded is willing to leave the herd and raise what he feels his customers want. His bloodlines look similar to some but that is where the similarity ends. He has selected for a bigger boned, framier, heavier muscled, big butted, big nutted, big gutted bull. One we call a range bull around here. He don't sell overfed yearlings. He sold 100 bulls for an avg over $5,300 this spring. He raises a few calving ease bulls but he his main goal is bulls for mature cows. His BW's are a little higher but the commercial breeder around here don't care if a calf weighs 85-90. They want a calf that will hit the ground running and either mash the scales down if a steer or make good cows if a heifer. He is the one breeder who raises and develops the type of bull the commercial breeder desires and not what some breed association, judge, AI catalog or professor says.
I would like to see Branded's cattle in person. If he was close I would likely buy one if he was in my price range. I admire his belief in his cattle and the fact he has a breeding plan other than the bull of the month plan most Angus breeders follow.

Sounds like Branded raises exactly what you need. I absolutely have no need for a 2000 lb cow. A big overgrown high BW bull on cows as a terminal cross is appealing one out of three years. But the managemen required to keep a high BW bull away from heifers is not a realistic possibility in our rotational grazing setup. Cows are easy to keep happy, all they need is to be fed, bred and water. A bull has only one thing on his mind, and to make matters worse, he can smell a cow in heat up to 6 miles away.

Guess we are fortunate that we have a heifer pasture where we can keep them separate with no extra management. We also have good fences and keep them maintained. If we get one that won't stay home he gets a one way road trip. Most breeders in this area only use CE heifer bulls on heifers. They use a bull with a BW above 85# on mature cows.We retain replacements from these bulls and they make excellent cows. So I wouldn't call them terminal sires. If those CE, light muscled, chicken boned Barbies work for you then power to you. They don't work here. Their progeny leave too much money on the table.

 

[Bright Raven]

Elkwc, I am with you. I don't like chicken boned Barbies. Some will say - you cannot eat bone. True, but it sells for the same price the rest of the calf does, it weighs more, and there is a correlation of bone mass to muscle mass.

 

[Ebenezer]

Elkwc, I am with you. I don't like chicken boned Barbies. Some will say - you cannot eat bone. True, but it sells for the same price the rest of the calf does, it weighs more, and there is a correlation of bone mass to muscle mass.

there is a correlation of bone mass to muscle mass.Got data on that? Dr. Long did studies at CSU and found differently and actually found differences in bone density to be more than expected. Thanks.

 

[Bright Raven]

Elkwc, I am with you. I don't like chicken boned Barbies. Some will say - you cannot eat bone. True, but it sells for the same price the rest of the calf does, it weighs more, and there is a correlation of bone mass to muscle mass.

there is a correlation of bone mass to muscle mass.Got data on that? Dr. Long did studies at CSU and found differently and actually found differences in bone density to be more than expected. Thanks.

It is a biological concept. My point is more general than a specific study. The general concept in anatomy is that bone area provides space of muscle insertion. The more space for muscle insertion, the more potential for muscle mass. Thus, the general biological concept that there is a correlation between bone size and the amount of muscle that can be attached.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I've always heard that doubled muscled cattle have a finer bone structure? And is there a correlation between fat and bone size -structure? Arnold Schwarzenegger had big bones at one time now it appears his bones have shrunk considerably.

 

[Bright Raven]

I've always heard that doubled muscled cattle have a finer bone structure? And is there a correlation between fat and bone size -structure? Arnold Schwarzenegger had big bones at one time now it appears his bones have shrunk considerably.

The correlation of surface bone area to muscle mass is a general concept. There are always exceptions. One of the exceptions is muscles that have large "belly area". The tendons that insert on the bone surface are small but the belly of the muscle is large. Thus, you can pack a lot of muscle on a smaller bone. Nevertheless, the general rule is that the more surface bone area, the more muscle you can pack on the bone.

 

[Ebenezer]

Elkwc, I am with you. I don't like chicken boned Barbies. Some will say - you cannot eat bone. True, but it sells for the same price the rest of the calf does, it weighs more, and there is a correlation of bone mass to muscle mass.

there is a correlation of bone mass to muscle mass.Got data on that? Dr. Long did studies at CSU and found differently and actually found differences in bone density to be more than expected. Thanks.

It is a biological concept. My point is more general than a specific study. The general concept in anatomy is that bone area provides space of muscle insertion. The more space for muscle insertion, the more potential for muscle mass. Thus, the general biological concept that there is a correlation between bone size and the amount of muscle that can be attached.

Biological concept but is it a proven bovine reality? If bone was a problem there would be a Bone EPD. Still would want to see data on cattle to know that this is not merely an opinion.

 

[Bright Raven]

there is a correlation of bone mass to muscle mass.Got data on that? Dr. Long did studies at CSU and found differently and actually found differences in bone density to be more than expected. Thanks.

It is a biological concept. My point is more general than a specific study. The general concept in anatomy is that bone area provides space of muscle insertion. The more space for muscle insertion, the more potential for muscle mass. Thus, the general biological concept that there is a correlation between bone size and the amount of muscle that can be attached.

Biological concept but is it a proven bovine reality? If bone was a problem there would be a Bone EPD. Still would want to see data on cattle to know that this is not merely an opinion.

IDK. If it holds as a general concept in other species, it should hold true in bovines.

I still like cattle with good bone. I know this, my buyers want good bone mass and good muscle.

 

[Nesikep]

Who eats bone?
I'm not looking to have fine boned animals, but I don't want something where you're tossing half the animal away because it's got great big bones without the corresponding meat on them... Looking at the old Cowpokes cartoons of short legged steers with 6" knuckles on them reminds me of some of the animals i've seen.
I think you get a lot more meat worth eating if you go for width over the loins and a deep chest than thick pasterns and hocks

 

[Bright Raven]

Who eats bone?
I'm not looking to have fine boned animals, but I don't want something where you're tossing half the animal away because it's got great big bones without the corresponding meat on them... Looking at the old Cowpokes cartoons of short legged steers with 6" knuckles on them reminds me of some of the animals i've seen.
I think you get a lot more meat worth eating if you go for width over the loins and a deep chest than thick pasterns and hocks

No one eats bone but when you sell cattle by weight, it sells for the same amount as the rest of the carcass.

 

[Nesikep]

If buyers pay attention and they get more meat from a moderately boned animal, they'll wise up quick and there'll be a premium/penalty depending on what you're selling

 

[Muddy]

Every one of my black steers going thru the Cornell feedlot qualified for CAB and I received the premium. This was back in the 90's, when "Purebred" was more popular than what it is now, with many breeders using 75% and 50% bulls.

AAA would like everyone to think 96% qualified were purebred Angus.

That video was interesting. It states "we start with Angus". That is false - they start with cattle that are at least 51% black hided with beef traits (no dairy cattle qualify). Interesting, also, that only 3 out of 10 qualify. I had heard that most Angus couldn't qualify - mainly because of the size of the ribeye - no facts to this - just something I heard, so it is at least true that most don't qualify "for some reason". I would imagine some don't qualify because of Yield Grade - too fat.

All ragging/kidding aside - The CAB program has been a great benefit to BEEF - all beef - all breeds.

Lol! I know CAB are supposed to follow their rules....but dairy crosses and Brahman crosses have been sneaking into the program and sold as Angus beef..

 

[CattleMan1920]

Who eats bone?
I'm not looking to have fine boned animals, but I don't want something where you're tossing half the animal away because it's got great big bones without the corresponding meat on them... Looking at the old Cowpokes cartoons of short legged steers with 6" knuckles on them reminds me of some of the animals i've seen.
I think you get a lot more meat worth eating if you go for width over the loins and a deep chest than thick pasterns and hocks

No one eats bone but when you sell cattle by weight, it sells for the same amount as the rest of the carcass.

I actually like to get beef bones cut in small pieces, sprinkle on some Sel gris and ground pepper, place some sprigs of thyme on top and roast at 450 degrees for about 20 minutes. When finished, use a small knife and spread the marrow on some well toasted French bread slices, with a glass of Côtes du Rhône.

I assure you that you will never see bones the same again.

 

[Nesikep]

Every one of my black steers going thru the Cornell feedlot qualified for CAB and I received the premium. This was back in the 90's, when "Purebred" was more popular than what it is now, with many breeders using 75% and 50% bulls.

AAA would like everyone to think 96% qualified were purebred Angus.

That video was interesting. It states "we start with Angus". That is false - they start with cattle that are at least 51% black hided with beef traits (no dairy cattle qualify). Interesting, also, that only 3 out of 10 qualify. I had heard that most Angus couldn't qualify - mainly because of the size of the ribeye - no facts to this - just something I heard, so it is at least true that most don't qualify "for some reason". I would imagine some don't qualify because of Yield Grade - too fat.

All ragging/kidding aside - The CAB program has been a great benefit to BEEF - all beef - all breeds.

Lol! I know CAB are supposed to follow their rules....but dairy crosses and Brahman crosses have been sneaking into the program and sold as Angus beef..

Just as long as there are no red hides, right? :deadhorse:

 

[True Grit Farms]

Every one of my black steers going thru the Cornell feedlot qualified for CAB and I received the premium. This was back in the 90's, when "Purebred" was more popular than what it is now, with many breeders using 75% and 50% bulls.

AAA would like everyone to think 96% qualified were purebred Angus.

That video was interesting. It states "we start with Angus". That is false - they start with cattle that are at least 51% black hided with beef traits (no dairy cattle qualify). Interesting, also, that only 3 out of 10 qualify. I had heard that most Angus couldn't qualify - mainly because of the size of the ribeye - no facts to this - just something I heard, so it is at least true that most don't qualify "for some reason". I would imagine some don't qualify because of Yield Grade - too fat.

All ragging/kidding aside - The CAB program has been a great benefit to BEEF - all beef - all breeds.

Lol! I know CAB are supposed to follow their rules....but dairy crosses and Brahman crosses have been sneaking into the program and sold as Angus beef..

Just as long as there are no red hides, right? :deadhorse:

I know some red hided cattle are sold as Angus beef, just not CAB.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yes, there is another program that recognizes Red Angus cattle I believe. But, do you know any city person that has heard of Red Angus Beef? I don't. CAB Program has done a superb job of convincing everyone how great their Angus beef is.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

There are lots of branded programs today.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

https://www.ams.usda.gov/services/auditing/certified-beef-programs

 

[elkwc]

If buyers pay attention and they get more meat from a moderately boned animal, they'll wise up quick and there'll be a premium/penalty depending on what you're selling
[/quoty

The buyers here pay more for framier, heavy boned, well muscled cattle. I have been told by long time feeders, large feedlot managers and packer buyers they feed and perform on avg the best. The other issue is when you add the added muscle to a light frame the longtivity of a bull or cow decreases. They have more structural issues. Talked to a PB recently about this very topic. He went the CE route and realized that his cattle weren't selling because of lack of muscling and frame. But as he added both back he tried to maintain CE. By doing this he told me his avg bull will fail around 6 years of age and a cow 1-2 years older. He don't see an issue because he has bought into the belief that some have of rapid generation turn over. Again I will go with what works for me in my environment and what brings the most dollars to the table at the least cost. Here it is a bigger boned at least frame 5.5, well muscled animal. The Barbie types look good on pictures but don't work in the real world here.