wbvs58
Well-known member
If they did then some very simple hard facts like before and after measurements should have been provided to support the claim.
Ken
My scenario,goes back to my Bulls thread
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Ken
cattleman99
Well-known member
Not necessarily did the buyer ask for a vet certificate? Not clear. I wouldn't personally care if I saw it. If the bull is a dud he's a dud. I also wouldn't have unloaded the replacement if I wasn't happy with him.
Also mentioned replacement bull wasn't in sale. So what were terms and conditions of sale? They are in every catalog. Says what the scenario is like do you get your money back, replacement bull, sale credit.
Ky hills
Well-known member
I agree with @wbvs58 I would think that some facts to back up the claim would be necessary. If the bull had a BSE for the sale, which I presume would be a likelihood, then what happened between the time of sale and present. Another exam and results should have been provided whether the buyer asked about it or not.
There's a lot of questions I would have been asking if I were the buyer, and I agree I would never have agreed for the other bull to have been unloaded from the trailer.
Just a FWIW here in the North most breeders that have Jan and Feb sales do BSE after the sale when weather warms. It's pretty much a standard practice. I have no idea why so many on this board have a hard time believing a bull would fail a BSE test.
wbvs58
Well-known member
I have no problem with the bull failing a BSE, happens all the time however that is not what the OP said, he said that he was told the bulls testicles were degerating which I assume he meant they were degenerating, to me this sounds like he was saying that they were showing obvious signs of getting smaller or misshapened or something similar. Anyhow it doesn't matter. If a BSE was done and he failed then a certificate which states the reason should have been produced. I sell bulls and if I was in the position of being the seller I would want to have all the relevant results on paper to present to the buyer to back up the bad news I was the purveyor of.
Ken
While you are not wrong. The most important thing the breeder could have done was to give the bull buyer an opportunity to make a decision on the replacement bull or refund the purchase entirely. Like I said before some are better than others when it comes to these situations. I just picked up a replacement bull yesterday for a broken leg on a Dec. purchase. I am totally satisfied with the replacement even though the breeder made the decision. I have done business with them for many years and it's why I will continue to go back. It's more about the people than the cattle by the way.
kenny thomas
Well-known member
Did the breeder have a guarantee for a period of time no matter what happened or did he just help you with a replacement? Good breeder either way.
Ky hills
Well-known member
It's not that I have a hard time believing a bull would fail a BSE, it happens.
@wbvs58 is right the op mentioned the degrading testicles. If the bull was sold through a sale here it would have had a bse prior to the sale, not knowing where the op is from could be a factor if they aren't tested during certain times of the year in sone places.
Just speaking from our experience here in the southeast bse are done year round as far as I know.
My thinking was that there should have been a bse at the sale time to have a base to go by to compare any new developments. The buyer should have been provided with any pertinent information.
Then there is the matter of being told about a discount of $500 and then evidently the breeder went back on his word on that too.
Here pretty much all bull sales have bse as standard practice whether through a public auction, whether individual breeder sale, consignment sale, stockyards or even private treaty sales.
the auction sales have a bse prior to sale, private treaty often has them tested before delivery or pickup and it's understood that the sale is contingent on the bull passing a bse. In the case of it not then money doesn't change hands or is refunded if a down payment has already been made to hold the bull, or a suitable agreed upon replacement is picked out.
There's more to this story, I think than what we have been told, but based on what has been told, the breeder has not been responsible or kept their word from based on my experience here in this area when it comes to buying and selling bulls.
That's what I wondered. And if the bull was paid, for, and the dude was sending him a replacement bull and discounting $500, why was there an invoice? Seems to me the seller should have sent the replacement bull and a $500 check!
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Travlr
Well-known member
If a bull showed up at my door without me being involved in selecting him... he wouldn't be unloaded unless and until I had a chance to scrutinize what was being presented. Papers and animal...
Especially after statements made that never proved out and the entire deal screwed up. It's very likely that I wouldn't have accepted the bull at all.
Especially after statements made that never proved out and the entire deal screwed up. It's very likely that I wouldn't have accepted the bull at all.
Yes he guarantees them through the first breeding season. Like I said I am a loyal customer. I think he treats everyone the same as long as you aren't trying to abuse the guarantee. I don't make the sale report of the high seller list but usually my avg comes in about the sale avg. Not every bull works out but that is life.
cattleman99
Well-known member
If the bull was a yearling bought in February around here it's unlikely a semen test was done. Probably just a tape measure. Too young and most years too cold.
Most years there are still a pile of decision deferred bulls in March. Cold really messes things up. This year was the exception.
Most years there are still a pile of decision deferred bulls in March. Cold really messes things up. This year was the exception.
Ky hills
Well-known member
I'm still wondering what state this bull deal happened in and what kind of sale? How old the bull was at time of sale?
OP lists his location as eastern South Dakota. Likely sale was in that vicinity. Most breeders invthis area sell yearlings but there are a few two year olds.
StrojanHerefords
Well-known member
At this point, I am a bit disgusted by the OP. Name names or tell us your issue got resolved. There are too many bad actors in the cattle business that need to be run out of town.
Travlr
Well-known member
So @cowwrangler, you opened up a can of worms and we'd like an update.
chaded
Well-known member
Wow a lot going on here. I would of said I wanted my money back from the get go. I also would of told that guy that said he was on his way that he better just turn around because he will NOT be unloading the other bull at my place.
I usually would say I don't pay for anything upfront but I did just send Gizmo a check before they shipped. But, they have an outstanding reputation. We used a third party hauler and you can bet I checked the bull out before it got off the trailer and I paid him.
I don't know what it would be like to contact the angus association but if they are like the Red Angus Association they would be worthless. I bought a herd of registered heifers for $20k. It took the guy several months to get them transferred to me. Red angus association said they don't get involved whatsoever. They won't even contact to see if they can help or anything.
I was HOT. It got to the point that I had a lawyer ready to get involved and crazy enough the day I was to meet with him the breeder called and said he was working on it that day.
I never said anything to him about taking legal action so he must of had my house bugged. Or it could of been the week prior I called him and told him he had one week exactly to get them registered to me.
I usually would say I don't pay for anything upfront but I did just send Gizmo a check before they shipped. But, they have an outstanding reputation. We used a third party hauler and you can bet I checked the bull out before it got off the trailer and I paid him.
I don't know what it would be like to contact the angus association but if they are like the Red Angus Association they would be worthless. I bought a herd of registered heifers for $20k. It took the guy several months to get them transferred to me. Red angus association said they don't get involved whatsoever. They won't even contact to see if they can help or anything.
I was HOT. It got to the point that I had a lawyer ready to get involved and crazy enough the day I was to meet with him the breeder called and said he was working on it that day.
I never said anything to him about taking legal action so he must of had my house bugged. Or it could of been the week prior I called him and told him he had one week exactly to get them registered to me.
StrojanHerefords
Well-known member
One thing, I don't understand is how apathetic association folk can be. They have a customer knocking on their door and you are being turned away.
