MM's new project (updated with pics on 3rd page)

[milkmaid]

Unfortunately this isn't one of the "freebies" I've occasionally acquired. She was normal when I bought her, and then a week later this showed up.)

My vet won't give me the statistics, so her chance of full recovery is anyone's guess. Joint infection in the left front knee. When I went to inject it this morning with antibiotics it started trying to drain, so I figured I'd better help it out. Thoroughly disgusting actually. She's wearing a sweat/pressure wrap for the next 12 hours to (hopefully) keep the swelling down.

She's sound at the moment -- even raced back to the barn at top speed this morning. I love watching calves run, but there's something special about watching a sick calf kick up their heels.

My original decision was to give her until Tuesday evening (1 week) and then decide her fate, but seeing as that's only some 24 hours away, I'm thinking it's time to call my vet again and quiz him. *sigh* I'd of course prefer to let a calf live if they still have the will to, but at the same time... I've dealt with this once before and it didn't have a good outcome. Don't want to go through that again.

 

[spinandslide]

She sure is Cute MM! Its never an easy descion, espc when you see one with such a strong will to live. I hope her prognosis is a good one. Why wont the vet give you her chances?

BTW-What typeof halter is that on her? Is it a homemade rope one?

 

[milkmaid]

He probably doesn't want me to know. :lol: I suspect it's something below 50%. He was a little evasive when I asked.

'Course, on the other hand, I like tackling cases that vets say can't be cured. However, over the years I've gotten a little more sense and a little less cents... kinda influences ones decisions.

The halter - it is rope, but it's not homeade. I paid like $10 or less for it, and it sure comes in handy.

 

[bigbull338]

MM he knows you take on hard luck cases.an that sometimes you lose 1.an he may feel youll lose this calf.

 

[spinandslide]

He probably doesn't want me to know. :lol: I suspect it's something below 50%. He was a little evasive when I asked.

'Course, on the other hand, I like tackling cases that vets say can't be cured. However, over the years I've gotten a little more sense and a little less cents... kinda influences ones decisions.

The halter - it is rope, but it's not homeade. I paid like $10 or less for it, and it sure comes in handy.

I hear ya on the more sense through less cents.. :lol: :lol:

I like that halter...Everything I find is for like a weanlin calf and I need something for teeny Jewel's head. I like rope anyway, even on my horses. Ill have to look for one, didnt know such a thing exsisted.

I hope you can make the right descions and they work out the way you need them too. Sometimes its a wonder domestic animals have survived, with so many issues plagueing them!

 

[milkmaid]

I have a larger rope halter that's designed for an older calf... still fits the little ones when I need it to though. I can even make that black rope halter big enough for my Holstein cow, believe it or not. That's what makes rope halters so nice... I can use them on any animal if I have to.

 

[fourstates]

Keep the knee draining as long as possible. The best dressing to keep a wound draining is a "wet to dry" dressing. Cleanse the area well, covered with several layers of gauze soaked in normal saline (NS) , then cover with dry gauze, if possible try to put some of the soaked gauze into the opening of the wound. This will act as a wick and as the gauze dries, it will wick out the drainage. The gauze will stick to the wound and debride it..you don't want a scab to form, and you need to change it daily. Wrap the gauze with kerlix and wrap with the vet wrap. Just don't make airtight.
Allow the wound to heal from the inside out. When the dressing stops pulling the drainage from the wound, reevaluate if it need more serious debridment or is healing. I think the key to overcoming this type of infection is keeping it out of the bone itself, and giving it a "one two punch" by giving the antibotics and draining out the infected material.

I didn't know what you had going on under the vetwrap....and this is a human wound protocol. Hope this is something you can use...That is a beautiful calf. At least you know whats going on in your "projects" joints. Mine is still a mystery.

 

[larryshoat]

Did the vet say what he thought caused it ? She looks awfully good . I had one about like that one time, kept draining it when it looked swollen and injecting pen . She eventually got better .

Larry

 

[milkmaid]

Here's the leg underneath the bandage...


It's a case of joint ill without an infected navel. Bacteria can enter through the navel or orally, and then they localize in the joint(s). In this case it ended up in the knee. No outward wound, it's totally closed, and I'm very reluctant to create a permanent opening for it to drain. Per my vet's advice I've been injecting the area every 12 hours with antibiotics and dexamethasone (ideally I'd inject it into the joint itself, but I'm not that skilled!). When I put the needle in this morning to inject antibiotics, fluid immediately began to drain out through the needle, so I simply "helped" it. The bandage was primarily to cover the opening a 16 gauge needle left until it healed over and secondly to keep inflammation down since I'd given the area a thorough working over this morning and I suspected there'd be a local inflammation of some sort.

Even so, it was a bit more swollen this evening than I'm comfortable with, and I gave her 2cc's of dex over the joint and 2cc's in the neck. Hope that'll take care of the inflammation.

I agree she looks pretty good - and she has normal mobility and weight-bearing on that leg - but I'm extremely apprehensive of taking her off antibiotics too soon and having a relapse. You don't want to know what I paid for her and I'd really like to keep her alive. From the consultation I had with my vet this evening, I think I'll give her another 24 hours, maybe a bit more on antibiotics, then if she still looks good Friday I'll have him inject the joint itself with glucosamine to stop any more joint damage from occurring than already has occurred. He would prefer I brought her in sooner, but I'm kinda broke right now and want to make sure I don't throw good money after bad. Ya know?

 

[milkmaid]

BTW fourstates, thanks for taking the time to explain that. I don't think it's going to be applicable to this calf unless I decide to open up that knee and put a drain tube in, but I have enough "projects" pass through my hands I'm certain there'll be a situation where that bandage would be perfect. Learned something new today. Much appreciated.

 

[hillsdown]

I have to say MM she looks really good nice shiny coat ,ears up and alert,, all really good signs, especially with a bottle fed Holstein..
I think you may win this one ...I have fought longer on animals that didn't look 10 % as good as this girl and came out alive and well..

She may not be able to be a high producing dairy cow, but will make a great nurse cow..

 

[Jogeephus]

Good luck Doc. ;-)

 

[larryshoat]

Here's the leg underneath the bandage...


It's a case of joint ill without an infected navel. Bacteria can enter through the navel or orally, and then they localize in the joint(s). In this case it ended up in the knee. No outward wound, it's totally closed, and I'm very reluctant to create a permanent opening for it to drain.
That is nasty looking, but the one I had looked just like that .

Per my vet's advice I've been injecting the area every 12 hours with antibiotics and dexamethasone (ideally I'd inject it into the joint itself, but I'm not that skilled!). When I put the needle in this morning to inject antibiotics, fluid immediately began to drain out through the needle, so I simply "helped" it. I got to think that makes you better off JMO .

The bandage was primarily to cover the opening a 16 gauge needle left until it healed over and secondly to keep inflammation down since I'd given the area a thorough working over this morning and I suspected there'd be a local inflammation of some sort.

Even so, it was a bit more swollen this evening than I'm comfortable with, and I gave her 2cc's of dex over the joint and 2cc's in the neck. Hope that'll take care of the inflammation.

I agree she looks pretty good - and she has normal mobility and weight-bearing on that leg - but I'm extremely apprehensive of taking her off antibiotics too soon and having a relapse.
I agree 100%, I would err on the side of caution .
You don't want to know what I paid for her and I'd really like to keep her alive.
Been there and done that .
From the consultation I had with my vet this evening, I think I'll give her another 24 hours, maybe a bit more on antibiotics, then if she still looks good Friday I'll have him inject the joint itself with glucosamine to stop any more joint damage from occurring than already has occurred. He would prefer I brought her in sooner, but I'm kinda broke right now and want to make sure I don't throw good money after bad. Ya know?

Yes I do know all too well . I guess I'm like hillsdown, I think you're gonna win on this one . The calf is fortunate to be in your capable hands and we're all pullin for ya .

Larry

 

[TheBullLady]

I have to agree.. if anyone can bring her through, you can! She does look great, and having such a good attitude really helps your cause. I had one a LONG time ago with joint ill from an infected navel, and she actually did really well. I wish I could remember exactly what we did with her, but it's been 15 years or more and it escapes me. I had great vets in Illinois and they made all my "lost causes" their own personal projects.

For the ones that asked about the halter.. they are available at all show supply stores. They are used routinely on show cattle, and Sullivan's or Hamms and I think even Tractor Supply have them.. in a variety of colors as well.

 

[spinandslide]

wow MM...that joint sure is ugly looking, but I agree with others. Bright eyes, shiney coat, she does not look like an animal that is ready to give up.

I sure hope you keep us updated, she sure is a cute little calf.

I DID find one of those rope halters at TSC last night.

 

[Jovid]

What antibiotics are you using? We have a calf with a ankle infection that the vet treated for two weeks with all the new high powered antibiotics and said there was nothing else to do.

We started giving her sulfa boluses and shots of Tylan directly in the joint. Two weeks later and she is walking fine.

 

[milkmaid]

spinandslide -- no worries, I'll definitely keep y'all updated. I try to share stories of my "projects" when I can and hopefully they sometimes help other people out.

Jovid -- I PM'd you.

hillsdown -- she's actually on a nurse cow; I tend to think she's doing better than a bottle calf because of that. In fact she gets way more milk than a bottle-fed calf and has gotten really big. When I took her to the clinic last week I put her in the back of the truck and drove over there... not sure I could lift her up this week. LOL.

Things looked better this morning; all that filled the needle was a sort of bloody serum. Much better than 'pus'. Cleaning it out yesterday might have been what it needed. I think there's a lot of scar tissue in there and hopeful there's no bacteria hiding where the antibiotics can't get 'em. I've been putting a mixture of DMSO on the joint to increase circulation to the area which should help...

When I called my vet yesterday I asked him what else I needed to know about joint infections (that he hadn't told me yet -- but I didn't say that part, LOL) and I'm pretty hopeful that I've been told everything now that I need to know to effectively doctor this calf.

 

[3waycross]

I've been putting a mixture of DMSO on the joint to increase circulation to the area which should help...


Never used DMSO on a cow but used it lots on horses especially on the race track. Always thought that it would pretty much drive whatever was in the tissue where it was applied all the way to the bone. Correct me if I'm wrong. How is it good for the circulation.

 

[milkmaid]

3way -- DMSO has a huge range of uses; treating everything from arthritis to transporting other medicines into the area (due to its membrane crossing properties; it pretty much has no barriers). It does increase blood flow to the area, although offhand I don't recall why. I have an aqueous mix of DMSO and NFZ that I'm using on the calf's knee... it's left over from a bottle my vet gave me for the last calf I treated with joint ill.

 

[CKC1586]

3way -- DMSO has a huge range of uses; treating everything from arthritis to transporting other medicines into the area (due to its membrane crossing properties; it pretty much has no barriers). It does increase blood flow to the area, although offhand I don't recall why. I have an aqueous mix of DMSO and NFZ that I'm using on the calf's knee... it's left over from a bottle my vet gave me for the last calf I treated with joint ill.

Wonder what DMSO would do if anything for contracted tendons?????