Milking Herefords

[Aaron]

My next door neighbour told me once not to get hung up on milk EPD's, too many purebreeders do. From his experience, don't aim high or you'll end up with a herd full of poor-doing semi-dairy cows. Aim for Hereford cows with a milk epd between 8 and 14 with a high level of accuracy. Their best cows were all in that range. My best ones are also in that range or a little lower.

 

[WisRose]

Here is a picture of a Bogart daughter with her first calf. I bought her as a bred heifer. The calf was 100# at birth and was pulled with a jack. She was born 3-18-06. The cow is getting the same feed as the others but she looks a little on the thin side to me. Her MM is 21. Possibly a little too high?

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

For older cows PW victor boomer p606
is a good choice, Milk is a 40 I believe, great udders they can be alittle hard to get on the ground but 4 year olds and up should be fine.
YW is an 80 if memory serves.
Good luck

MD

P606 has a milk EPD in the mid to upper 20's. :cboy:

 

[jkwilson]

Alan if you want to increase milk I would look at DR World Class milk epd of 33 or RHF IGT Victor 103T milk epd of 27 a older proven bull.

Some others that I would consider are:
HH ADVANCE 767G milk epd 41
CS BOOMER 29F milk epd 31
and last but not lest DWF HL VIC S133 G SEVEN MILK EPD 27

We've been real happy with the milking and udder attachment on our 29F daughters and granddaughters.

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Here is a picture of a Bogart daughter with her first calf. I bought her as a bred heifer. The calf was 100# at birth and was pulled with a jack. She was born 3-18-06. The cow is getting the same feed as the others but she looks a little on the thin side to me. Her MM is 21. Possibly a little too high?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/WisRose/casgrace.j
pg

Did you buy this cow as a bred heifer from a past Star Lake Cattle sale in Oklahoma? Just wanted to know. I am not a big fan of Bogart. He is a pretty bull to look at from a side view, but not from a back end view. Bogart does not have a very good top in him. His dam I thought would be a real powerhouse being a full sister to National Champion 19D, but once I saw her in person, I couldn't believe my eyes. She is a really nice cow to look at from the side, but again has no top in her what so ever. I had in mine at one time to try Bogart out, but that is when he was a yearling and he looked like he was going to out due his sire 29F. THen he became a yearling then a two year old and its like he fell apart. He sold for $12,500 in the Spring 2005 Star Lake sale to a bunch of Canadians. :cboy:

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Alan if you want to increase milk I would look at DR World Class milk epd of 33 or RHF IGT Victor 103T milk epd of 27 a older proven bull.

Some others that I would consider are:
HH ADVANCE 767G milk epd 41
CS BOOMER 29F milk epd 31
and last but not lest DWF HL VIC S133 G SEVEN MILK EPD 27

We've been real happy with the milking and udder attachment on our 29F daughters and granddaughters.

Most all the 29F daughters I have seen looked really good and they have a great udder and structure to them. And then there are some that I wouldn't even have on my back 40. We have 6 embryo calves on the way that will be due not till next Spring and they should really be some nice calves. Hope they are all heifers. :cboy:

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Alan if you want to increase milk I would look at DR World Class milk epd of 33 or RHF IGT Victor 103T milk epd of 27 a older proven bull. I wouldn't use 103T even if someone gave me the semen. Most of all my daughters prolapsed. I think that one year we bred I want to say 25 or so cows to 103T and I think around 15 of them prolapsed. Just watch using this bull, because I have had problems with him and I wasn't the only Hereford Breeder that had problems. I remember when Georgetown Farm here in Virginia used him and sold cows in there sale that had prolapsed and the people that ran Georgetown Farm went and had a Vet stitch the cows back up and put them back together and some of the Hereford breeders got screwed over royaly. So I would watch out using the 103T. Stick with a good proven bull like World Class or something like THM Durango 4037, because Durango calves were nothing but Fantastic to watch at teh Mead sale as I was told by many that went. I am using Durango in two flushes this Fall. Well, take care and hope my advice helps.

Some others that I would consider are:
HH ADVANCE 767G milk epd 41
CS BOOMER 29F milk epd 31
and last but not lest DWF HL VIC S133 G SEVEN MILK EPD 27

I wouldn't use 103T even if someone gave me the semen. Most of all my daughters prolapsed. I think that one year we bred I want to say 25 or so cows to 103T and I think around 15 of them prolapsed. Just watch using this bull, because I have had problems with him and I wasn't the only Hereford Breeder that had problems. I remember when Georgetown Farm here in Virginia used him and sold cows in there sale that had prolapsed and the people that ran Georgetown Farm went and had a Vet stitch the cows back up and put them back together and some of the Hereford breeders got screwed over royaly. So I would watch out using the 103T. Stick with a good proven bull like World Class or something like THM Durango 4037, because Durango calves were nothing but Fantastic to watch at teh Mead sale as I was told by many that went. I am using Durango in two flushes this Fall. Well, take care and hope my advice helps.
:cboy:

 

[LFF]

Hillcreek you've edited my reply that you qouted and it now does not read what I said. Please change it back. I too have heard of people saying the 103T caused prolaspe , however a near by breeder that used him numerous times has not experienced any problems. If you look back in many of the best current producers you will find 103t in their bloodlines.

I too like World Class except for his carcass data. A -10 ribeye epd stinks and his IMF is also lacking. World Class is far from proven and will be many years before he is. Just look at his number of progeny and the number of herds used in and you have too agree.

I think that it is great to use the young unproven bulls , however they need to be used along with proven bulls to verify their preformance.

Alan if you want to increase milk I would look at DR World Class milk epd of 33 or RHF IGT Victor 103T milk epd of 27 a older proven bull. I wouldn't use 103T even if someone gave me the semen. Most of all my daughters prolapsed. I think that one year we bred I want to say 25 or so cows to 103T and I think around 15 of them prolapsed. Just watch using this bull, because I have had problems with him and I wasn't the only Hereford Breeder that had problems. I remember when Georgetown Farm here in Virginia used him and sold cows in there sale that had prolapsed and the people that ran Georgetown Farm went and had a Vet stitch the cows back up and put them back together and some of the Hereford breeders got screwed over royaly. So I would watch out using the 103T. Stick with a good proven bull like World Class or something like THM Durango 4037, because Durango calves were nothing but Fantastic to watch at teh Mead sale as I was told by many that went. I am using Durango in two flushes this Fall. Well, take care and hope my advice helps.

Some others that I would consider are:
HH ADVANCE 767G milk epd 41
CS BOOMER 29F milk epd 31
and last but not lest DWF HL VIC S133 G SEVEN MILK EPD 27

I wouldn't use 103T even if someone gave me the semen. Most of all my daughters prolapsed. I think that one year we bred I want to say 25 or so cows to 103T and I think around 15 of them prolapsed. Just watch using this bull, because I have had problems with him and I wasn't the only Hereford Breeder that had problems. I remember when Georgetown Farm here in Virginia used him and sold cows in there sale that had prolapsed and the people that ran Georgetown Farm went and had a Vet stitch the cows back up and put them back together and some of the Hereford breeders got screwed over royaly. So I would watch out using the 103T. Stick with a good proven bull like World Class or something like THM Durango 4037, because Durango calves were nothing but Fantastic to watch at teh Mead sale as I was told by many that went. I am using Durango in two flushes this Fall. Well, take care and hope my advice helps.
:cboy:

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Hillcreek you've edited my reply that you qouted and it now does not read what I said. Please change it back. I too have heard of people saying the 103T caused prolaspe , however a near by breeder that used him numerous times has not experienced any problems. If you look back in many of the best current producers you will find 103t in their bloodlines.

I too like World Class except for his carcass data. A -10 ribeye epd stinks and his IMF is also lacking. World Class is far from proven and will be many years before he is. Just look at his number of progeny and the number of herds used in and you have too agree.

I think that it is great to use the young unproven bulls , however they need to be used along with proven bulls to verify their preformance.

Alan if you want to increase milk I would look at DR World Class milk epd of 33 or RHF IGT Victor 103T milk epd of 27 a older proven bull.
Some others that I would consider are:
HH ADVANCE 767G milk epd 41
CS BOOMER 29F milk epd 31
and last but not lest DWF HL VIC S133 G SEVEN MILK EPD 27

I wouldn't use 103T even if someone gave me the semen. Most of all my daughters prolapsed. I think that one year we bred I want to say 25 or so cows to 103T and I think around 15 of them prolapsed. Just watch using this bull, because I have had problems with him and I wasn't the only Hereford Breeder that had problems. I remember when Georgetown Farm here in Virginia used him and sold cows in there sale that had prolapsed and the people that ran Georgetown Farm went and had a Vet stitch the cows back up and put them back together and some of the Hereford breeders got screwed over royaly. So I would watch out using the 103T. Stick with a good proven bull like World Class or something like THM Durango 4037, because Durango calves were nothing but Fantastic to watch at teh Mead sale as I was told by many that went. I am using Durango in two flushes this Fall. Well, take care and hope my advice helps.
:cboy:

Hows this LFF? Sorry about that. Yeah with that splash of Vindicator as 103T's sire I can't use him. Vindicator daughters were known to prolapse very often. We had some vindcators that we had a lot of problems with. :cboy:

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Hill Creek, I can't wait until Camp and Caustic see what you've said about Vindicator.

Jim Reed recommended Vindicator to me personally as a bull to keep daughters out of. I daresay he knows if there is a prolapse problem, and I can't see him advising me to use Vindicator if there was one. He is a high accuracy bull that is even now close to breed average MM after 23 years of use. He is also a raging bargain in the Reed catalog.

 

[txag]

I wouldn't use 103T even if someone gave me the semen. Most of all my daughters prolapsed. I think that one year we bred I want to say 25 or so cows to 103T and I think around 15 of them prolapsed. Just watch using this bull, because I have had problems with him and I wasn't the only Hereford Breeder that had problems. I remember when Georgetown Farm here in Virginia used him and sold cows in there sale that had prolapsed and the people that ran Georgetown Farm went and had a Vet stitch the cows back up and put them back together and some of the Hereford breeders got screwed over royaly. So I would watch out using the 103T.

Hows this LFF? Sorry about that. Yeah with that splash of Vindicator as 103T's sire I can't use him. Vindicator daughters were known to prolapse very often. We had some vindcators that we had a lot of problems with. :cboy:

hmmm......it seems you have forgotten some advice Bez gave you the last time you trash-mouthed Vindicator, so let me refresh your memory:

Interesting line of bull crap - publicly stated to boot - with no back up proof.

With these numbers there would be no continuation of the line - certainly semen sales would never have been successful - hence my BS flag call..

I wonder where all of those other cattle came from with him as the ancient sire.

HC - you really must learn to control your mouth - someday it will get you into serious trouble unless you have the juice to back it up.

Your bank account will be greatly reduced if you ever need to defend yourself. Even if you win, it is rare to recover funds lost in defending your self.

If you plan to EVER be taken seriously as a breeder and a person of repute you will learn to NEVER make statements such as you did..................Print off my comments and your initial reply. Tack it up on the wall to remember

and your replies:

Bez, thanks for the advice and I will kep all those things in mind.

Also, Thanks Bez for the input and I will print it off and stick it on the Frig. Your truly a big help and a person that sounds like they have been in the business longer than I have.

you also made this claim:

Hey listen, I am only going by what I was told about Vindicator. Those are not my percentages anyway. Those are percentages that were told to me by a fellow Hereford breeders here in VIrginia an it was an in herd percentage. He had a lot of problems with the cows prolapsing. He bred 10 cows to vindicator and 9 of them prolapsed when they calved at the age of 2 years old..............Back to Vindicator, don't like him, won't buy a cow that has his genes in there blood.

at the time, it would have been much more beneficial to give your own experience of "we bred I want to say 25 or so cows to 103T and I think around 15 of them prolapsed" or "We had some vindcators that we had a lot of problems with" instead of just "I am only going by what I was told about Vindicator"

so in spite of "Back to Vindicator, don't like him, won't buy a cow that has his genes in there blood.", you bred 25 cows to one of his sons? :shock: & 15 of them prolapsed? :shock: so just breeding to 103T causes prolapses? :shock: or are you saying you bred 25 cows to him & they all had daughters & 15 of those daughters prolapsed? still some pretty big claims.

it can probably be verified if you had 15 103T daughters, so let me remind you the last time your boasts were checked on:

The percentage 106%, is what I recieved last year on my calf crop. Now, that 106%, is what the Hereford breed said it was. It all has to do with how fast they grow, how much feed they are consuming, and the animals weaning weight. These things all have to do, with how the Hereford breed gets that 106%. You may even want to email them and find out how they do get it.

i took your advice & just called AHA to question them & they have no idea what you're talking about.

This is a new process I have made in my own program. It does not have to do with what the Hereford Association has to say. This system is a new thing, that we developed in our own program and our program only.

now, we have had a fair number of 103T daughters in our herd and have had no (zero) prolapses. they are a little smaller framed but they're easy-keeping, good-milking cows. :cboy:

 

[Bez!]

Alan

As I suspected it would, this has turned into a schitzen slanging match - with my prime suspect showing up in spades.

It is entirely inappropriate to run down a line of animals that have been around for years - used by many and provide no data other than rhetoric.

This type of talk simply reduces the breeders reputation and certainly makes me - now a commercial guy - think that I will stay away from production sales and from bloodlines produced at that breeders site.

Hill Creek - please refrain from what actually could be considered slander. There is already legal precidence that provides for remedies from words written on the internet.

You are fortunate you have not mentioned specific breeders - or you could find someone knocking at your door - delivering something you woulfd not want or need at this stage in your life.

Advice can be given, but it is not always taken to heart.

Youth, inexperience, money and attitude often run together and prove what we old folks have learned long ago.

Better to look like a fool than open ones mouth and prove it.

Alan - I also suspect you now know why I contacted you by PM.

Outa' here.

To all - have a nice day.

Bez!

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Bez, the Vindicator duaghters we had at one time, many moons ago, mostly all of them prolapsed. I even went back into our journals from that period of time when Vindicator was so popular and we bred 25 of the Vindicator daughters to bulls that didn't have any problems calving, and when 9 months was up, 15 of the Vindicators prolapsed. It states that we were never to use that bull again. My grandfather also wrote that he had reports from other breeders in Virginia stating that they had problems with Vindicator daughters. 103T, well, my grandfather used him and once the 103T daughters were old enough to breed and we bred them to our herd bulls at that time, 9 months came around and it states that we bred 14 103T daughters and 6 of them prolapsed. So, he never worked for us and I just got done cleaning out the tank, found some semen on Vindicator and I through it away. There will never be another cow bred to either one of those bulls. 103T and Vindicator were both powerful bulls, but with there daughters having that prolapse problem, he goes down as being a awful bull. Now, we had some Vindicator daughters that turned out to be some really good cows and milked well, alond with the 103T daughters that didn't prolapse, they were nice daughters as well. So, Lets just say, I will never ever use 103T or Vindicator again. Hey, you all go right ahead and use him, but when those 103T and Vindicator daughters mature into cows, don't come crying to me because you didn't listen to what I had to say about them. :cboy: