Marbling - Too much of a good thing?

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MikeC

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Just another opinion:

Will history repeat again? As an industry, we have misused information turning progress into mistakes. Are we doing it again? Remember when performance information became available and we selected for heavier and heavier weaning weights. We got heavier weaning weights and along with selecting for larger framed cattle, many cattle got too big and too large framed to be sustainable and profitable. Too much of a good thing. And we had to back track, having wasted time and money getting somewhere we didn't want to be.

Is the beef industry doing the same thing with the "marbling" trait today? A lot of emphasis is being placed on marbling, which means less emphasis is being placed on other important traits. And when we get "there", will we find again that we don't want to be "there"?
Marbling is an important and economic trait for which to select. It is what makes beef taste like beef. Flavor and juiciness are the two main attributes of marbling. Marbling has been shown to have some correlation with tenderness. Since marbling is fat, it obviously chews easier than muscle and meat with higher levels of marbling/fat tend to be more tender.

So, the question is, "how much marbling do we need?" No agreement has been reached on that question. The answer depends a great deal on whether you're selling marbling genetics or not. The American Angus Association has stated that the only way we'll sell more beef is to produce more highly marbled/fat beef. Others who make money off of the high marble/high fat business agree, but others disagree. For instance, research shows that approximately 3.0% fat (low Select) is all that's required to give beef the flavor and juiciness needed to be acceptable. And we know that it is easier to over cook a low marbled / fat steak than a high marbled / fat steak, so maybe we need a little more marbling/fat to make the steak more user friendly. But the statement that the only way we'll sell more beef is to make it fatter is hard to swallow - especially when the Choice/Select spread, or premium for marbling/fat, is narrow - say $1-$5.00.

The current USDA grading system uses percent intramuscular fat to determine different quality grades. There is demand for all grades of beef (it all sells at some price), but the grades of Standard and below are considered unacceptable to consumers without extra processing, flavoring, etc. So, the argument about marbling should be one of "what level is unacceptable" not " how much can we add?" Most agree that "Standard" is too little.

The real argument then is how much of the different levels of fat (above Standard) do we need. Believe it or not, the market place tells us. When the Choice/Select spread is wide - ie. a premium is paid for high marbled / fat beef - we need more high marbled/fat beef and when that spread is low - ie. little or no premium is paid for high marbled/fat beef - we don't need more high marbled/fat beef. This spread varies daily and cycles up and down throughout the year. Since this premium is so variable and unreliable, is the market really signaling that we need to place great emphasis on producing more marbling / fat. While the market does tell us constantly that it doesn't want Standard quality beef. Are these stiff and constant discounts a market signal telling us where to place our emphasis - eliminating the bottom end.
The only way a beef producer can gain the full benefit of the marbling/fat premium is to sell his calves "in the beef" priced on carcass value. And very few do that. But whether you sell "off the cow" or "in the beef", if you lose more in other traits like fertility and growth and lean yield than you gain in premium for marbling/fat, you lose.

A mixed statement made by many is that high quality beef means high marbled/fat beef. Not so. Many consumers consider lower marbled / fat beef that is flavorful and juicy and tender to be very high quality. The success and awards won by "Certified Hereford Beef" a lower marbling/fat grade of beef proves that to be true. And taste panel research confirms that many consumers prefer lower marbled/fat beef. Quality beef requires marbling but once adequate marbling is present for flavor and juiciness, then tenderness and preparation determine quality. Consumer tastes differ for the amount of marbling/fat they like in their beef, but high quality beef is found in Select, Choice and Prime quality grades of beef.

Have we learned from history? Just as too much weight or frame is bad, too much marbling/fat is bad too. The consumer is telling us, the health profession is telling us and the dietitians are telling us that we need less fat, not more. Why should we as an industry place so much emphasis on adding fat to our product when consumers and other segments of the food industry are trying to take fat out?

Don't misunderstand me, we need marbling. But, are those who have the most to gain from adding marbling leading us down a road we'll have to back track from again? Does the industry need more marbling/fat in its products or are the promoters of such steering us toward too much of a good thing just as some did in the weight and frame race?

I agree that beef needs to deliver a more consistent, tender, tasty product. And marbling is a component of that, but not the panacea. If the issue is tenderness, then lets address tenderness. If the issue is consistency, then let's address consistency. But tenderness is not marbling and marbling doesn't guarantee tenderness and neither guarantee consistency if our product is prepared improperly.
Just as we needed more weight and growth in the 80's, we need more marbling in some cattle today. But let's learn from history and not go too far. Can our industry afford the time lost, money spent and effort wasted on producing too much of a good thing again?
 
I alwasy enjoy the "broadbrush" treatment/discussion of issues

dun
 
dun":17c17zih said:
I alwasy enjoy the "broadbrush" treatment/discussion of issues

dun


Allows more room for different opinions........ ;-)
 
My first comment is that it is ALWAYS dangerous to breed for one trait - tunnel vision.
2nd:
I was visiting with a really top notch Angus breeder who scans all his cattle and sells lots of bulls. He made a comment that stuck.
The more he learns about carcass information, the more he worries about breeding for high marbling. High marbling can be associated with lack of exercise, lack of exercise might mean a bull with low libido.
Not exactly what we are looking for in a bull!
 
Mike you'll be chasing the reports/articles as long as you live.
Fats good/Fats bad, coffee's bad/coffee's good,eggs are bad/eggs are good,black is good/black is bad, beef is bad/beef is good the only certain thing is the customer is going to change what they want. And speaking of the demand for black if you aren't changing your herd color now you are behind.
 
dj":4gsbk100 said:
Mike you'll be chasing the reports/articles as long as you live.
Fats good/Fats bad, coffee's bad/coffee's good,eggs are bad/eggs are good,black is good/black is bad, beef is bad/beef is good the only certain thing is the customer is going to change what they want. And speaking of the demand for black if you aren't changing your herd color now you are behind.

There's no doubt in my mind, that every consumer is never going to be completely satisfied. There will always be changes in what "Joe Blow" wants in his product. IE more fat/less fat/bigger steak/smaller steak. I figure once the size and quality things get worked out, someone will start promoting their breed for producing a certain product in the meat that lowers cholesterol and keeps you from going bald! :D

As far as everyone changing to black, I sincerely hope you were joking. That would essentially be breeding the whole beef industry for one trait. There are many discussions going on right now about single trait selection and I think we can all agree that doing such a thing would not be good for the beef industry. JMO.
 
El_Putzo said:
As far as everyone changing to black, I sincerely hope you were joking.

E.P. I wasn't kidding at all.
And speaking of the demand for black if you aren't changing your herd color now you are behind.
I'm already black. Hopefully I have 2-3 more yrs.
 
dj":qgdusi6h said:
El_Putzo":qgdusi6h said:
As far as everyone changing to black, I sincerely hope you were joking.

E.P. I wasn't kidding at all.
And speaking of the demand for black if you aren't changing your herd color now you are behind.
I'm already black. Hopefully I have 2-3 more yrs.

Please inform me on how I am behind.

I maintain that QUALITY cattle sell no matter what the color. Seen it with my own two eyes.
 
El_Putzo":9ok0jn8p said:
As far as everyone changing to black, I sincerely hope you were joking. That would essentially be breeding the whole beef industry for one trait. There are many discussions going on right now about single trait selection and I think we can all agree that doing such a thing would not be good for the beef industry. JMO.

If you're suggesting that Angus is a one trait breed, you should reconsider. The Angus cow has always been known for fertility, mothering ability, and milk. The fact that most of them will produce marbled carcasses is just a side benefit.

I hope calves sell for what they're worth, regardless of color or size of their ear. But in my area, the good black ones outsell the good **insert color** and the sorry black ones outsell the sorry *insert color** ones.
 
Frankie":gmvjhcdh said:
El_Putzo":gmvjhcdh said:
As far as everyone changing to black, I sincerely hope you were joking. That would essentially be breeding the whole beef industry for one trait. There are many discussions going on right now about single trait selection and I think we can all agree that doing such a thing would not be good for the beef industry. JMO.

If you're suggesting that Angus is a one trait breed, you should reconsider. The Angus cow has always been known for fertility, mothering ability, and milk. The fact that most of them will produce marbled carcasses is just a side benefit.

I hope calves sell for what they're worth, regardless of color or size of their ear. But in my area, the good black ones outsell the good **insert color** and the sorry black ones outsell the sorry *insert color** ones.

And in my opinion thats where the tunnel vision comes in. Just cause its black is must have "some" angus in it making it better. Maybe thats right and I am the one thats wrong here. Just a thought.
 
If you're suggesting that Angus is a one trait breed, you should reconsider. The Angus cow has always been known for fertility, mothering ability, and milk. The fact that most of them will produce marbled carcasses is just a side benefit.

I hope calves sell for what they're worth, regardless of color or size of their ear. But in my area, the good black ones outsell the good **insert color** and the sorry black ones outsell the sorry *insert color** ones

Not suggesting that at all Frankie, just pointing out that if all you are looking for is black, you are probably going to perpetuate some bad traits along the way. Remember also that I never said anything about using angus to turn black. There are a couple other black breeds.

In this area it is not that way. Good blacks sell for the same as good (insert color). And bad blacks sell for the same as bad (insert color). I hope for everyone's sake, it stays this way.

I will say though, that 5 yrs ago it was more like what you suggested. I'm glad that the buyers are starting to figure things out.

I think the push for better carcass quality was a good thing and I'm glad Angus has risen to the challenge. That has also challenged the rest of the breeds to improve their product. Someone has to be the leader, or the industry would get pretty stagnant. Hereford had their time earlier, now it's Angus turn to shine. Soon there will probably be another breed to step up, who knows, only time will tell.
 
El_Putzo wrote:please inform me on how I am behind.
I didn't say you were.
El_Putzo wrote:That would essentially be breeding the whole beef industry for one trait. There are many discussions going on right now about single trait selection and I think we can all agree that doing such a thing would not be good for the beef industry. JMO.
I agree
El_Putzo wrote:I maintain that QUALITY cattle sell no matter what the color. Seen it with my own two eyes.
AMEN. And you have seen blk cattle bring more $$ simply because they're black too.
dj wrote:I'm already black.
dj wrote:And speaking of the demand for black if you aren't changing your herd color now you are behind.
When black is as common as fleas (is?) the price on others will beat'em. I want to be there.
 
Mike everybody wants a flavorful juicy cut.
Few like to really chew the "fat".
 
DJ,

I'm not turning my herd black, so according to you I am behind.

My brothers and dad have a herd of blacks, have for 15 yrs, and they have done well with that. But as the buyers wise up to the color tricks, the "black is better" mentality is starting to fade. I'm trying to look to the future, and from what I can see the buyers are never going to go back to saying "it is black, it must be good".

Some of you may remember me telling you last spring that my dad and brother had bought a couple of black simmie bulls. They didn't buy them to try to trick buyers into thinking that the calves are angus. They bought them for several reasons, 1) They had been using Angus bulls for too long and were missing the boat on heterosis since the herd had become a high percentage BA. 2) They wanted to get a faster growing, better yielding calf which is achieved by the english x continental. 3) Since their cows are black, they needed a breed that would give the calves some uniformity in color. In my area they sort them by color at the barn, and even though the color isn't that critical in the price, they will not sell a mixed colored bunch of cattle together. I think we all will agree that a large group of calves of whatever color, will sell better than the onesy twosies.
 
Well I can't help but notice how the Angus breed gets brought up in this discussion. Last time i checked there was a red breed of Angus. Are you saying that black Angus are superior to red? Just because an animal is black doesn't mean its not going to sell just as well. The hide gets taken off the blacks just the same as any other animal and the color of the animal is no longer an issue. Just for your information I sold Char/Gelbvieh x red Angus feeders this fall that were going for more money than the blacks. Yes that's right, a red calf was selling for more than the blacks.
 
The Americam consumer drives the market place and the ad folks prod the consumer along with the trend of the month. Marbled meat is good/bad/ok sometimes...depends upon which lobby injected a large dose of $$ into the issue. IMO there will always be demand for Prime and Choice meats the object will be to stay in the mid line areas and maintain a supply of each grade. We don't have much trouble with color or grading (we come in choice and high select with 1/4" back fat) as our customers usually don't see "their steer" until he is in neatly wraped packages.
If the gene for tenderness issue becomes more popular, common and reliable then I believe that the market will drastically change and more demand for a specific line or breed will dictate the direction. Probably not in my lifetime but then cloning was science fiction when I was a tad.
Sorry about rambling on...snowing again and don't want to do housework...or go back out. DMc
 
novaman":7ovs8ktq said:
Well I can't help but notice how the Angus breed gets brought up in this discussion. Last time i checked there was a red breed of Angus. Are you saying that black Angus are superior to red? Just because an animal is black doesn't mean its not going to sell just as well. The hide gets taken off the blacks just the same as any other animal and the color of the animal is no longer an issue. Just for your information I sold Char/Gelbvieh x red Angus feeders this fall that were going for more money than the blacks. Yes that's right, a red calf was selling for more than the blacks.

Last time i checked there was a red breed of Angus. Are you saying that black Angus are superior to red?

Excellent point, waiting for the answers to come spilling in. :lol:
 
novaman":30z3saxx said:
Well I can't help but notice how the Angus breed gets brought up in this discussion. Last time i checked there was a red breed of Angus. Are you saying that black Angus are superior to red? Just because an animal is black doesn't mean its not going to sell just as well. The hide gets taken off the blacks just the same as any other animal and the color of the animal is no longer an issue. Just for your information I sold Char/Gelbvieh x red Angus feeders this fall that were going for more money than the blacks. Yes that's right, a red calf was selling for more than the blacks.

Angus are black. I don't know of a breed called Black Angus. There is a breed called Red Angus. If they're Angus, they're black. If they're Red Angus, they should be red. Where did the genetics for Red Angus come from? Same place the gentics for black Salers, Simmentals, Limousin, Hereford, Maines came from. Angus.
 
dj":16mt99qd said:
E.P. I wasn't kidding at all.
And speaking of the demand for black if you aren't changing your herd color now you are behind.
This is a completely riduclious statement. It is the quality of meat that we are looking for and not the color of the hide. Granted, Angus, Hereford and Black or Red Baldies generally have the highest marbled, most tender beef of the highest quality than the draft breeds that were brought into this country, mostly in the 60's and 70's. By cross breeding with Angus or Herefords the quality of the meat can be improved but being black isn't necessarily going to bring you to the forefront.
 

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