Marbling (Quality) in Serious Decline

[Wewild]

. Now we the feedlot owners are the proud owners of a poor gaining black hided yak looking animals. These people somehow thought it was a good idea to cross breed these animals because it might be a cute calf. That is one reason for poor grading poor gaining animals.

Why did you buy them? Because they were black. It couldn't have been because you knew where they where from.

Edit ... Missed your previous response to why you did a bad job.

Live and learn.

 

[somn]

. Now we the feedlot owners are the proud owners of a poor gaining black hided yak looking animals. These people somehow thought it was a good idea to cross breed these animals because it might be a cute calf. That is one reason for poor grading poor gaining animals.

Why did you buy them? Because they were black. It couldn't have been because you knew where they where from.

Edit ... Missed your previous response to why you did a bad job.

Live and learn.

In case you have missed some of my posts I hate black cattle they are over priced, and they can't take standing in the summer sun while being fed a high % protein diet and the net income on the close out sheet is always less. That is due to the first reason I stated for my dislike for black cattle. Order buyers sure do love them though especially when they can throw 31 black yaks in with 50 angus to fill a load. That was how I got blessed with them. They left the farm the next week to another sale barn. I didn't even need to tell the order buyer he was done buying cattle for me he knew it when he got the check for 50 head of angus from my dad and a check for the 31 yaks from the local sale barn.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Maybe people need to go back to more straightbreeding so they have a solid basis to work from.

-dun - I agree with the first part of your post, but this sounds as if you are proposing throwing out the baby with the bath water! I feel that we don't have to "go back to more straightbreeding" to establish a "solid base". There are plenty of 'solid bases' from which to work - unfortunately some of the bases are skewed. I have advocated stressing REA and Marbling EPd's rather than reducing our BW's to such low levels that we endanger the ultimate frame scores of seedstock to the point of inconsistancy, and elevating the Milk numbers to the point of being ridiculous! Milking ability in breeding cows is necessary, but how adequate is over-adequate? Some investigators (myself being one) have observed that excessively high Milk EPD's have a related influence to low Scrotal measurements and thus diminished fertility.

I have advocated moderation and balance in all things, and I feel to suggest going back to 'square ONE' in our seedstock selection choices is a little severe. I certainly agree that we need a more solid base from which to function, but let's be careful what bases we establish in the "carving" process of what we consider the IDEAL breeding template. We are not too far off center yet, so I would hate to throw the entire gene pool into a Maelstrom - and, dun, I don't mean to say that I think that you are propounding that idea by any means - not at all! We just need to think, and go forward - s l o w l y!

DOC HARRIS

 

[dun]

Maybe people need to go back to more straightbreeding so they have a solid basis to work from.

-dun - I agree with the first part of your post, but this sounds as if you are proposing throwing out the baby with the bath water! I feel that we don't have to "go back to more straightbreeding" to establish a "solid base". There are plenty of 'solid bases' from which to work - unfortunately some of the bases are skewed. I have advocated stressing REA and Marbling EPd's rather than reducing our BW's to such low levels that we endanger the ultimate frame scores of seedstock to the point of inconsistancy, and elevating the Milk numbers to the point of being ridiculous! Milking ability in breeding cows is necessary, but how adequate is over-adequate? Some investigators (myself being one) have observed that excessively high Milk EPD's have a related influence to low Scrotal measurements and thus diminished fertility.

I have advocated moderation and balance in all things, and I feel to suggest going back to 'square ONE' in our seedstock selection choices is a little severe. I certainly agree that we need a more solid base from which to function, but let's be careful what bases we establish in the "carving" process of what we consider the IDEAL breeding template. We are not too far off center yet, so I would hate to throw the entire gene pool into a Maelstrom - and, dun, I don't mean to say that I think that you are propounding that idea by any means - not at all! We just need to think, and go forward - s l o w l y!

DOC HARRIS

The solid base I was referring to is to eliminate the heinz 57 cows that throw calves all over the planet because they have such a mixed up gene pool. Take the JerseyXlonghornXHerefordXAngusXlimousinXBrahmanXwhatever the cheapest bull at the salebarn is and breed them and their offspring to the same breed bull for a ocuple of generations. Too many people don;t have a specific plan for crossbreeding and willynilly use whatever breed is supposed to fix their problem. When that doesn;t work they try another breed, and another.
Many years ago we had a neighbor that had a sorry bunch of cows and every year he would buy a bull that was cheap from the salebarn. When we sold out and left the area, he hauled all of his cows to the salebarn, bought our herd, cut the fences and ran our cows over to his place. About 5 years later I was in the area and dropped by to see him and how the cows were doing for him. The original cows he had gotten from us still looked good, but the replacements he had kept from each generation were poorer and poorer. He mentioned that he didn;t understand whaqt had gone wrong and why the calves from our original cows did so much better then the younger cows. At that time he had a longhorn-Brahman looking bull running with the cows.
BTW, I never went back again.

dun

 

[TSR]

By crossing breeding English cattle with continental cattle there is no reason not to be able to get marbling and yield grade balanced for whatever market segment we are after. The trick is to make sure the steaks are tender. It doesn't matter how much marbling we have, if the steak is not tender, who will want it? Of course, someone will point out that we don't get paid for tenderness. That's true but neither do the chicken and pork folks. How often do you run across a tough chicken breast or pork chop?

bull

But how many well marbled steaks have you eaten that were tough?? Personally I don't remember one. I believe there are a great many people that don't even know what the word "marbling" means but everyone knows what tenderness means--so when taking a survey, tenderness will show up most often as being the most desired. I have eaten some pretty tender steaks because of aging,application of tenderizer,etc. that were too dry for my liking. But a well marbled, juicy, steak is hard to beat. JMHO

 

[MikeC]

Filet steaks (tenderloin) are not marbled as a ribeye is, (the reason for wrapped bacon). But they are the most tender cut of beef because it's the most unused muscle.



I prefer a "Select" steak that is properly aged.

I guarantee you that a prime ribeye steak will sit in the grocer and be passed over by the common housewife because of it's high fat content. Prime steaks are rarely displayed in groceries' for this reason.

 

[Frankie]

Filet steaks (tenderloin) are not marbled as a ribeye is, (the reason for wrapped bacon). But they are the most tender cut of beef because it's the most unused muscle.

But they're dry. We wound up with a whole tenderloin once. Boy, I was thrilled, but a good portion of it went to the dog. Tenderness isn't the end all of a piece of steak. The taste of meat is carried in the fat (marbling). And I like the taste of beef.

I prefer a "Select" steak that is properly aged.

But they don't tenderize most of the Select beef in the supermarket and one in four will be tough.

I guarantee you that a prime ribeye steak will sit in the grocer and be passed over by the common housewife because of it's high fat content. Prime steaks are rarely displayed in groceries' for this reason.

:roll: Prime steaks are rarely displayed in the grocery because most of it is sold overseas or in the upscale restarurant market. Also, it's too expensive for the common housewife.

 

[TSR]

I don't think you will ever hear about a customer going
into an eating establishment and asking:
"are your steaks marbled?".

Instead, the customer will ask: "Are your steaks tender?"

Marbling(grade) is not the same as tenderness. That's
why we GeneStar test our breeding herd for the
presently-known gene factors for DNA tenderness
potential.

Part of that could be because a lot of people don't identify(don't know what marbling means) everybody knows what tenderness means. BTW have you ever eaten a well marbled steak that was tough?? I never have, not to say they don't exist but I'll bet they are the exception rather than the rule. I have eaten some tender steaks that lacked juiciness-just too dry to suit me. Again I believe that anyone selling beef off the farm can achieve tenderness by aging a little longer but your only going to get marbling PRIMARILY through genetics.

 

[TSR]

Filet steaks (tenderloin) are not marbled as a ribeye is, (the reason for wrapped bacon). But they are the most tender cut of beef because it's the most unused muscle.



I prefer a "Select" steak that is properly aged.

I guarantee you that a prime ribeye steak will sit in the grocer and be passed over by the common housewife because of it's high fat content. Prime steaks are rarely displayed in groceries' for this reason.

I have never seen a Prime ribeye steak in a grocery store either Mike but just the fact that the common housewife would passover a highly marbled steak makes my point--she thinks too much fat would make for a bad steak which is not necessarily true, as a matter of fact, its false, in my opinion.

BTW my other post about marbling was in response to OK Jeanne's post about genestar. I have no idea how it wound up under bullbuyer's post.

 

[la4angus]

Frankie:
I've seen many more thousands of head of cattle hit CAB from "common" cattle than from "Angus" breeding.
mtnman

Whoa there mtnkid
A few weeks ago you were getting all your info from people that you talked to. Now you are seeing it. What does here? Are you as full of crap as a Thanksgiving turkey like I always thought you are?

 

[Brandonm2]

:roll: Prime steaks are rarely displayed in the grocery because most of it is sold overseas or in the upscale restarurant market. Also, it's too expensive for the common housewife.

I don't know about the "too expensive for the common housewife" part. Americans just spent over $100 million in a week on the Madden 2007 video game at $60 a pop. Americans have PLENTY of disposable income for just about anything. That said, I have NEVER seen Prime steaks in a meat case......granted Wal-Mart is the most upscale grocery story I have ever shopped at too.

 

[MikeC]

Filet steaks (tenderloin) are not marbled as a ribeye is, (the reason for wrapped bacon). But they are the most tender cut of beef because it's the most unused muscle.

But they're dry. We wound up with a whole tenderloin once. Boy, I was thrilled, but a good portion of it went to the dog. Tenderness isn't the end all of a piece of steak. The taste of meat is carried in the fat (marbling). And I like the taste of beef.

Mike's response: ********! You obviously don't know how to cook a steak. Try taking it off the grill an hour sooner!

I prefer a "Select" steak that is properly aged.

But they don't tenderize most of the Select beef in the supermarket and one in four will be tough.

Tenderize? We eat our own beef 3-4 times per week. It's usually select and not tough at all. I don't know what you mean by "Tenderizing" but proper aging does the trick.

I guarantee you that a prime ribeye steak will sit in the grocer and be passed over by the common housewife because of it's high fat content. Prime steaks are rarely displayed in groceries' for this reason.

:roll: Prime steaks are rarely displayed in the grocery because most of it is sold overseas or in the upscale restarurant market. Also, it's too expensive for the common housewife.

Wrong again. "Natural" Grassfed beef in my grocery is about the same price as Prime would be. It sells like hotcakes.They don't put Prime in the case because it's not visually appealing.

 

[Frankie]

:roll: Prime steaks are rarely displayed in the grocery because most of it is sold overseas or in the upscale restarurant market. Also, it's too expensive for the common housewife.

I don't know about the "too expensive for the common housewife" part. Americans just spent over $100 million in a week on the Madden 2007 video game at $60 a pop. Americans have PLENTY of disposable income for just about anything. That said, I have NEVER seen Prime steaks in a meat case......granted Wal-Mart is the most upscale grocery story I have ever shopped at too.

Most of the local supermarkets in my little town don't sell Choice. I go to a meat market and buy my beef. But the local Wal-Mart has started a small section of Choice steaks. Some kind of "angus", BTW. I bought some Prime steaks last weekend at an upscale HEB in Texas, $15.99 a pound. I'm pretty "common" and I'm not going to pay that very often for even a good steak. Yes, Americans have plenty of money to buy stuff, but they don't want to pay much for their food and many of them don't want to prepare their own food. We spend the smallest percentage of our income on food than any industrialized country in the world and we like it that way. That leaves more money to buy XBoxes, $200 sneakers, big screen TVs, and already prepared foods.

 

[Frankie]

Mike's response: ********! You obviously don't know how to cook a steak. Try taking it off the grill an hour sooner!

:roll: Wasn't cooking them on the grill. They are dry without the marbling and that's the truth. You said yourself they wrap them in bacon.

Tenderize? We eat our own beef 3-4 times per week. It's usually select and not tough at all. I don't know what you mean by "Tenderizing" but proper aging does the trick.

:roll: OK, they don't AGE Select beef in most supermarkets. And one in four steaks is likely to be tough.

Wrong again. "Natural" Grassfed beef in my grocery is about the same price as Prime would be. It sells like hotcakes.They don't put Prime in the case because it's not visually appealing.

No, I'm not wrong. "Natural" beef is a niche market. People worried about hormones, BSE, animal rights, etc., are happy to pay more for "Natural" beef. The Prime steaks I bought last weekend look good to me. People will respond to surveys that they want lean beef, but they vote with their dollars every day at the supermarket and Choice (more marbling) sells for more than Select. The Prime was more expensive than the Choice. BTW, the Angus Assn has started a line of CAB Natural. I hear it's doing very well.

 

[OKJeanne]

Natural beef is not the same as grass-finished beef;
and both are different than organic - and all those
are absolutely different than commodity beef......
and all those categories are priced differently by what
the market will bear.
We sell natural(no antibiotics, no hormones), grass-finished
beef.

 

[Brandonm2]

It is similar here. Just about everything sells with NO grade posted on it, though the higher dollar stuff carries an "Angus" label (not CAB).....so I assume I am eating select more often than not. I also question the assumption that the "housewife" is the meat major buyer. I have never been married and about half the men I know under 45 are divorced so do most of their own shopping. I walk into the store knowing I am going too buy either ribeyes or T-bones too grill or pan fry, almost no matter what the price is. A family pack of ribeyes, 20 lbs of charcoal, a 12 pack of pepsis, and 5 lbs of potatoes is pretty much a week's groceries for me. If I were married, (probably not going to happen at my age) I doubt that much would change. My point is.....Is the stereotypical 30 year old mom of three our primary meat buyer or are we operating under old assumptions? People figured out that they could slap any kind of "Angus" label on meat and get the public too pay $2-4 a pound more for it than for the identical steaks next to it in the meat case. Supposedly the words: "natural", "grassfed", "Laura's Lean", "Certified Hereford Beef", etc on the package also adds Value to the product over regular commercial meat. I would think that there is a niche market for "Prime" steaks in the meat case. I think the reason that we don't see it is lack of supply rather than nickle pinching house wives.

 

[KMacGinley]

Mike's response: ********! You obviously don't know how to cook a steak. Try taking it off the grill an hour sooner!

:roll: Wasn't cooking them on the grill. They are dry without the marbling and that's the truth. You said yourself they wrap them in bacon.

Tenderize? We eat our own beef 3-4 times per week. It's usually select and not tough at all. I don't know what you mean by "Tenderizing" but proper aging does the trick.

:roll: OK, they don't AGE Select beef in most supermarkets. And one in four steaks is likely to be tough.

Wrong again. "Natural" Grassfed beef in my grocery is about the same price as Prime would be. It sells like hotcakes.They don't put Prime in the case because it's not visually appealing.

No, I'm not wrong. "Natural" beef is a niche market. People worried about hormones, BSE, animal rights, etc., are happy to pay more for "Natural" beef. The Prime steaks I bought last weekend look good to me. People will respond to surveys that they want lean beef, but they vote with their dollars every day at the supermarket and Choice (more marbling) sells for more than Select. The Prime was more expensive than the Choice. BTW, the Angus Assn has started a line of CAB Natural. I hear it's doing very well.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think that Most people are concerned about all the things you listed above, Hormones, BSE , antibiotics. Evidently the whole continent of Europe doesn't want implanted beef, but we in our arrogance insist that they should buy it. Kinda like the 70s when people wanted smaller cars and GM kept making big ones.

Believe me, the natural beef people will be sure to point out to the public, that the commodity beef people are flooding their meat with Hormones, and feeding cattle, animal parts while counting on the rendering plants to keep things straight, They will also tell them that you all feed antibiotics to your animals everyday, for no good reason, and with every bite of commodity beef, even if it is CAB, they are probably getting all of these potentially harmful toxins. I know that because I tell all my customers these things. My Natural Angus beef is Hormone free, antibiotic free, and never fed any animal proteins.

With some advertising money, commodity beef will look pretty dangerous to the consumer.

Niche Market today, main market tomorrow. CAB may become irrelevant in the near future. And Tenderness always beats marbling. Too bad CAB doesn't worry about that.

 

[TSR]

Mike's response: ********! You obviously don't know how to cook a steak. Try taking it off the grill an hour sooner!

:roll: Wasn't cooking them on the grill. They are dry without the marbling and that's the truth. You said yourself they wrap them in bacon.

Tenderize? We eat our own beef 3-4 times per week. It's usually select and not tough at all. I don't know what you mean by "Tenderizing" but proper aging does the trick.

:roll: OK, they don't AGE Select beef in most supermarkets. And one in four steaks is likely to be tough.

Wrong again. "Natural" Grassfed beef in my grocery is about the same price as Prime would be. It sells like hotcakes.They don't put Prime in the case because it's not visually appealing.

No, I'm not wrong. "Natural" beef is a niche market. People worried about hormones, BSE, animal rights, etc., are happy to pay more for "Natural" beef. The Prime steaks I bought last weekend look good to me. People will respond to surveys that they want lean beef, but they vote with their dollars every day at the supermarket and Choice (more marbling) sells for more than Select. The Prime was more expensive than the Choice. BTW, the Angus Assn has started a line of CAB Natural. I hear it's doing very well.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think that Most people are concerned about all the things you listed above, Hormones, BSE , antibiotics. Evidently the whole continent of Europe doesn't want implanted beef, but we in our arrogance insist that they should buy it. Kinda like the 70s when people wanted smaller cars and GM kept making big ones.

Believe me, the natural beef people will be sure to point out to the public, that the commodity beef people are flooding their meat with Hormones, and feeding cattle, animal parts while counting on the rendering plants to keep things straight, They will also tell them that you all feed antibiotics to your animals everyday, for no good reason, and with every bite of commodity beef, even if it is CAB, they are probably getting all of these potentially harmful toxins. I know that because I tell all my customers these things. My Natural Angus beef is Hormone free, antibiotic free, and never fed any animal proteins.

With some advertising money, commodity beef will look pretty dangerous to the consumer.

Niche Market today, main market tomorrow. CAB may become irrelevant in the near future. And Tenderness always beats marbling. Too bad CAB doesn't worry about that.

And tenderness always beats marbling??? That's your opinion and not mine. AGAIN, I'll bet if you did a survey , a great majority wouldn't even know what the word "marbling" means but of course everyone knows what the word tender means, hence the surveys don't always tell the whole story. I must say again I've never eaten a well marbled steak that was tough but I've eaten some very dry "tenderized" steaks tht were very tender but no juiciness or flavor when compared to the marbled cuts. Just my experience.

 

[KMacGinley]

Ah, but I'm not talking about "Tenderized steaks", I am talking about the Tenderness Trait.

 

[Brandonm2]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think that Most people are concerned about all the things you listed above, Hormones, BSE , antibiotics. Evidently the whole continent of Europe doesn't want implanted beef, but we in our arrogance insist that they should buy it. Kinda like the 70s when people wanted smaller cars and GM kept making big ones.

Count me as one person who couldn't care less about how many hormones or antibiotics are in the meat. Folks with a LITTLE BIT of scientific education knows that the steroids in most implants are found naturally in meat anyway and aren't going to harm me at all and antibiotic resistant strains of microorganism aren't a problem if I cook my meat. Anybody who pays a $1 more for nonimplanted beef is buying into hysterical hype.That said I have no opposition at all to the global outlawing of implants and the feeding of antibiotics (if it applies to Brazil, Australia, New Zealand, chickens, etc). ALL my heifers were potential breeding heifers (either by me or someone else) and I rarely implanted steers. I bet 70-80% of the implants purchased are purchased at the feedlot level.