Mandatory EID tags for KY cattle

[rocfarm]

I bangs vacc heifers so that they can go anywhere... It stopped being mandatory here and many dairies do not Bangs vacc anymore. Foolish in my opinion... a one time vacc that prevents the spreading of Brucellosis, which is transmissible to humans... and it is herds of bison in the west... why not continue to prevent something that can be financially devastating to a farmer/rancher..?

I would rather not consume milk from a cow that is not bangs vacc... I get milk from a small farmer (when I don't have any milking) that used to milk for a living, bad injury and he finally sold the herd but kept a couple cows for himself... he still continues to bangs vacc his heifers....and I will continue to do mine. Sometimes we miss a few heifers if they are not near the barns when the vet is at the farm, but try to do any that I keep.

Don't know anything about dairy cattle. But am a bit perplexed about why they are trying to use dairy rules on cow/calf operators.

Again, makes no sense when you look at the data, except to assume that they know knowledge is power and want more. It should be our right to refuse if there's no real reason for them to have that knowledge.

 

[farmerjan]

@rocfarm ; Not sure what dairy rules they are trying to use on cow/calf operators... The mandatory EID tags are for "SUPPOSEDLY" , better traceability of cattle for the very unlikely there is a disease outbreak.... ALL THIS IS, IS MORE ABOUT CONTROL.... and it will go the direction of the same lines of the new "PET TAX" they are trying to implement in CO....
It is all about wanting to KNOW more about your business than they need to know... so they can tie it in with the Carbon/Air quality/Green new deal/ and all that garbage... this way they can come along and say you have too many cows and they are making too much CO2 with their belching and cow farts... and that you need to start "sharing" them with your less fortunate neighbors because you do not need that many...

As far as the Bangs Vaccinations... because there is Brucellosis in Bison herds, proven through blood tests on the Yellowstone herd.... among others I am sure... and it can be passed fairly easily... the whole thing about having them vaxxed is to prevent them from carrying it.... and for the whole thing Dave was talking about with the cows at the sale out there... only being allowed to be sold in state if not bangs'd... to prevent them from carrying it out of state to other herds... since it will not necessarily kill a cow but becomes a vector to carry it to other animals... it perpetuates the problem... And it can be passed to humans so a major threat...
It was a big problem in dairy way back, and it could be transmitted through the milk if I am not wrong... raw milk consumption... as well as meat... WELL..... beef cattle are meat animals... so they can be carriers through their meat... if undercooked/uncooked meat is consumed, humans can become infected... so they stopped it through the milk transmission by vaccinating dairy animals... It's a 1 time vaccination... you can get the vet to do it when he is on farm for preg checks or something else... then they will never need it again and they will not contract it from other mammals that have it...

One other thing... they get tattooed... It saved us once when some heifers got over into another pasture and the less than "straight arrow" owners tried to say that those couple of heifers were not ours... Called them out about it and got them in the chute and I pulled the bangs papers and proved they were ours with the tattoo's in the ear.... they had cut our tags out of the heifers ears... but our heifers knew us, knew what grain was for, came to call... and once we identified them... they did not have a leg to stand on... (they later went to jail for dealing drugs and stealing another neighbors cattle and selling them)....

Like I said, I still bangs my heifers so they cannot pass it to a calf through the milk, and then become a carrier...or have to deal with abortions or anything else...

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Maybe your states rules are different. But even with our states mandatory tags nobody has a clue how many cows I have (myself included). I buy the tags in large lots every few years and use them as needed. They aren't registered or assigned to individual animals rather just an origin. The tag merely has a number that if someone has the cow/tag in their possession can look-up the number and see where it originated.

So for the gov't to know how many cows I have they would need to come count them...

 

[rocfarm]

It is all about wanting to KNOW more about your business than they need to know...

Thank you. And if they know all your moves before or as you are making them, then you are at their mercy. This is not smart business, chess, investing, etc.

For the localized outbreaks of the nature you mentioned, I'd support mandatory vaccination if someone wanted to sell the cattle out of state. Not sure I'd required it locally, as if everyone knows it's in the area, then I'd think you'd either ask the seller or just vaccinate them yourself. But why would you need EID for that, though? If you just required an ear tattoo that they'd been vaccinated, that would be sufficient for their protection. But the fact is, once the EIDs are in, then every few years they can require you to put MORE information into those tags. And that tends to be how it works, too.

And I get that marking your cattle with a tattoo, tag, or brand is a good idea. I also get that if you are a larger producer, you might need to do this for brand building. All great.

But it shouldn't be required by law. You could strongly encourage it.

But when a guy sells crappy cattle at the sale barn, it gets around among the people who matter, anyway. And trust me, the buyers will deal with that ranch the next time around, and I imagine the auctioneer will chip in to help deal with it in a not so obvious manner.

There are a lot of other ways to keep things safe without requiring these kinds of information.

You know, in Europe, every company must give you a 'Reject All' button for every website you visit where those companies can't track you, can't sell your information to someone else, etc.

Just saying the US should give us the same options to the people across all sections of our lives.

When did our privacy become so worthless?

 

[rocfarm]

Maybe your states rules are different. But even with our states mandatory tags nobody has a clue how many cows I have (myself included). I buy the tags in large lots every few years and use them as needed. They aren't registered or assigned to individual animals rather just an origin. The tag merely has a number that if someone has the cow/tag in their possession can look-up the number and see where it originated.

So for the gov't to know how many cows I have they would need to come count them...

Well, the county does come to count your cows in Texas to make sure you can keep your ag exemption. I don't really have a problem with that.

But they don't keep constant track.

Are there any corn farmers out there? Doesn't John Deere have a system now where you pay a subscription, install a GPS/Internet device, and the tractor uploads all of your corn harvest acre-by-acre to the company?

Here's an article. It says that Deere has a right to turn your tracking back on, even if you turn it off.

FTC Investigator Meets With Farmers on Deere Data Privacy

communicationsdaily.com

They've already taken away the farmer's right to repair. Is Deere also selling your harvest data to the commodities traders?

Again @chevytaHOE5674, you are probably right about the situation as it is now. But we're silly to think that the data collection will stop there.

And the AI will also come in at some point and allow them to calculate way more information about your operation than you actually give, as well.

It will not be good for the small producer.

Insist on safety, freedom, and privacy, not just safety. We are more than hard-working enough to do all three. And that is the best for ALL Americans.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Beef Magazine wrote about an EID cost share program, but I guess it never came to fruition. {click here}
Jeanne - Simme Valley said New York provides EID to producers free of charge. Why haven't other states figured out how to do the same?

I think the reading range of HDX / FDX tags is too limited. After the USDA pilot program ended, 840 UHF tags are nonexistent. Fort Supply Technologies still offers a 999 UHF strip tag. However, ICAR states 999 ids are for research and testing only.

When U.S. CattleTrace began, I joined for a single year and didn't go back. CattleTrace holds a symposium each year, but what have they accomplished?

There are many issues, including manufacturing capacity. During Covid shutdowns, custom tags had a 6-month backorder. Even Canada rationed ear tags during Covid because of hoarders and limited supply. Allflex has since added capacity, but would it be enough if there's a national EID mandate for all classes of livestock? I would like to see more market share for Y-Tex, Datamars, and Caisley.

Moses - how did you remember that??? You must have a much younger brain than me!! Yes, we can get as many as we want as often as we want - 100 tags at a time - even get the tagger free.
I always HATED those Bangs metal tags. The problem most of the time was that they were put on without "growing" room. The ears would grow and pull on the inserted part, tearing/infecting the ear.
We are instructed to put on the top of the ear also. Never have had a problem with the cows getting infected or lost one. Been using for maybe 5 years? Maybe longer.
For someone that shows, I love them. Fair managements don't have to fight reading a tattoo. They just wand your animal and done.
I do not like the idea of government "control".

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

At least in NY - it is NOT mandatory to RFID tag each animal. I tag all our heifers at the time they are Bangs vaccinated (4 mos to 8 mos old). It is CHEAP to vaccinate. Like maybe $5/shot. I have ALWAYS vaccinated my heifers. They are my livelihood. If there was an outbreak, MY cattle are protected. Plus, I sell breeding stock all over the US. Many states require the vaccination.
It is "illegal" to remove the tags.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

But the fact is, once the EIDs are in, then every few years they can require you to put MORE information into those tags.

Unless something has changed there is no information IN the tag other than a number corresponding to the location. The tag doesn't store anything, there are no records associated with it.

All the tag can provide someone is essentially who applied the tag and thus an address for where it was applied. It can NOT provide them with any other information. Nobody can use the tag to know herd #'s, vaccination status, sex, net worth, mother maiden name, SSN, etc.

It is NO different than a guy branding an animal other than you have to buy the tag.

 

[Stonewall Joe]

We are about 18 years into it and see it as no great impost and if I really wanted to I could get information back from the processors. Overall the only benefit to me is that it is another form of ID for registering my cows and I need it to sell my cows through the recognized channels and it is a marketing strategy for our export markets. Most producers that are bigger than me and a bit more tech savvy will use it for automatic recording of weights, recording information whenever they work the cattle. Some people have weigh stations in the paddock that cattle step onto and their weights are recorded. There are many management advantages. I know big companies and producers wouldn't be without it. I suspect it would be the same in the US, big outfits would already be using it.

Ken

the way your rights get eroded is a little seemingly insignificant piece at a time, sold to the public as something that is "good for you" so most of the people just fall in line. It happens all the time in almost every country. Look at what your country did with shot mandates, severe travel restrictions and lock downs and how they got it done. Government restrictions are put in place at the cost of the people and the benefit to the government, all sold as something that start off with "good intentions" and grow to something else. In the US look at how many free accountants for tax collection in almost every small business exist. It didn't start like this. Look at how the laws were subtley slipped in like payroll tax deductions that have enriched the government and grown it to a massive scale that would be far different if people realized how much was being extorted from them every week to pay for needless programs after having the government take away their ultimate tool of approval, withholding tax payments

 

[rocfarm]

Don't have to brand in Texas

Unless something has changed there is no information IN the tag other than a number corresponding to the location. The tag doesn't store anything, there are no records associated with it.

All the tag can provide someone is essentially who applied the tag and thus an address for where it was applied. It can NOT provide them with any other information. Nobody can use the tag to know herd #'s, vaccination status, sex, net worth, mother maiden name, SSN, etc.

It is NO different than a guy branding an animal other than you have to buy the tag.

Don't have to brand in Texas if we don't want, either. I don't. And @Stonewall Joe is right.

 

[Silver]

Unless something has changed there is no information IN the tag other than a number corresponding to the location. The tag doesn't store anything, there are no records associated with it.

All the tag can provide someone is essentially who applied the tag and thus an address for where it was applied. It can NOT provide them with any other information. Nobody can use the tag to know herd #'s, vaccination status, sex, net worth, mother maiden name, SSN, etc.

It is NO different than a guy branding an animal other than you have to buy the tag.

No, they are in fact using RFID tags to spy on us. There are entire teams of gov't agents dressed all in black with dark sunglasses driving black cars and flying black helicopters whose sole purpose is to track every cow's every step 24 hours a day to ensure we have no cow handling privacy whatsoever. It is part of a deep state plan in partnership with Bill Gates to control the masses with mind control using passive low frequency RFID technology.
I also have it on good authority from Jimmy at the gas station who got it from the waitress at the coffee shop who heard from a transient worker she was serving that Bill Gates has modified these tags to alter cattle's DNA to cause them to produce less methane and taste awful.

 

[Ky hills]

No, they are in fact using RFID tags to spy on us. There are entire teams of gov't agents dressed all in black with dark sunglasses driving black cars and flying black helicopters whose sole purpose is to track every cow's every step 24 hours a day to ensure we have no cow handling privacy whatsoever. It is part of a deep state plan in partnership with Bill Gates to control the masses with mind control using passive low frequency RFID technology.
I also have it on good authority from Jimmy at the gas station who got it from the waitress at the coffee shop who heard from a transient worker she was serving that Bill Gates has modified these tags to alter cattle's DNA to cause them to produce less methane and taste awful.

So that's why we been seeing helicopters flying around,
Seriously though, yes the concept of the EID tags at this point is for traceability only. The problem is that it could very conceivably be used for other purposes. The email I received from the KCA states several points from their proposal. One of which states as follows

• Be built using infrastructure that supports other potential uses of ID.

 

[TCRanch]

Well, my replacement heifers are getting pelvic measured and their BANGS today - with the EID tags. I just roll with it.

 

[Silver]

I do have two gripes about the tags. First is retention. The button back will eventually wear out and fall off, allowing the tag to fall out.
The second and biggest one to me is the lack of carcass data. We were promised we would be able to get carcass data from animals bearing our tags. And we did get some for the first few years. We no longer do, apparently the packers have decided that this is their information and they aren't sharing it. There is / was a huge opportunity here for us to put even more distance between ourselves and the rest of the world in terms of carcass quality and efficiency and to this point we've blown it.

 

[gcreekrch]

I do have two gripes about the tags. First is retention. The button back will eventually wear out and fall off, allowing the tag to fall out.
The second and biggest one to me is the lack of carcass data. We were promised we would be able to get carcass data from animals bearing our tags. And we did get some for the first few years. We no longer do, apparently the packers have decided that this is their information and they aren't sharing it. There is / was a huge opportunity here for us to put even more distance between ourselves and the rest of the world in terms of carcass quality and efficiency and to this point we've blown it.

I have a few gripes about the fallout from BSE. Over 25 years since feed ban feeding animal byproducts to animals and we are still paying for SRM removal from cattle over 30 months at a cost of $150ish per head. Money that would be paid to producers if it wasn't required.
The tags are a tax. Every reportable disease outbreak in Canada has been traced with brands and now backed up with the tags.. Another $3500 annual tax for us that does SFA.
The governments of today are very adept in convincing people all this BS is for the greater good. Now (unrelated) we have come so far that we have litter boxes in school hallways for kids that are allowed to pretend they are cats.
How far do we take this?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

The problem is that it could very conceivably be used for other purposes. The email I received from the KCA states several points from their proposal. One of which states as follows

• Be built using infrastructure that supports other potential uses of ID.

The thing is that it's a passive RFID system. The tag has no ability to store data or have any data added to it after it is produced the tag has no writable memory or power source. Tag is purchased with the location ID "printed" in it and that's all it will ever have.

I guess the sale barn/packer/etc could keep count of how many of your tags pass thru their facility and report it to someone? But there is already records of that in forms of checks, receipts, etc.

If they start requiring a tag with a power source and some sort of red/write memory that would be a different story.

 

[simme]

The EID tag itself is readable as a 15 digit number. Three of those are a country code. The remaining 12 are an ID number. "They" know who the tag number was issued to - name and address. That is all "they" know about the tag. No other info in the tag.

Any additional infrastructure and use of the "information" would not occur in the "tag" but would occur in separate databases. One common use can occur on the farm. A reader on the chute can read that 15 digit number as each animal goes through the chute. Reader is connected to a laptop with a piece of software (like Cattlemax). The owner can enter into the software shots given, dewormer applied, procedures performed, etc and end up with a record for their herd. Without using a pencil sharpened with a Case knife and without a little red book to be misplaced. Does that seem bad?

The range of the signal from those tags is about 18" max. So, can't be read by readers on the highway or from satellites or cell towers. You really got to put out an effort to read the data. Ever notice those little white plastic strips glued onto a box when you purchase a part or an item? Those are RFID tags used to "track" inventory and are the same basic technology as used in these EID cattle tags. Those rfid tags in manufacturing help to store and retrieve products quickly and efficiently and get them delivered quickly.

Someone once said something along the lines of "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself". Seems to be a lot of fear. Do any of you microware your credit card to cook the chip?

Remember that 3 digit country code in the tag? Seems like people would like that as a tool to identify country of origin. Wonder if those litter boxes have chips in them to verify that all the bathrooms are adequately covered?

 

[Ky hills]

The EID tag itself is readable as a 15 digit number. Three of those are a country code. The remaining 12 are an ID number. "They" know who the tag number was issued to - name and address. That is all "they" know about the tag. No other info in the tag.

Any additional infrastructure and use of the "information" would not occur in the "tag" but would occur in separate databases. One common use can occur on the farm. A reader on the chute can read that 15 digit number as each animal goes through the chute. Reader is connected to a laptop with a piece of software (like Cattlemax). The owner can enter into the software shots given, dewormer applied, procedures performed, etc and end up with a record for their herd. Without using a pencil sharpened with a Case knife and without a little red book to be misplaced. Does that seem bad?

The range of the signal from those tags is about 18" max. So, can't be read by readers on the highway or from satellites or cell towers. You really got to put out an effort to read the data. Ever notice those little white plastic strips glued onto a box when you purchase a part or an item? Those are RFID tags used to "track" inventory and are the same basic technology as used in these EID cattle tags. Those rfid tags in manufacturing help to store and retrieve products quickly and efficiently and get them delivered quickly.

Someone once said something along the lines of "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself". Seems to be a lot of fear. Do any of you microware your credit card to cook the chip?

Remember that 3 digit country code in the tag? Seems like people would like that as a tool to identify country of origin. Wonder if those littter boxes have chips in them to verify that all the bathrooms are adequately covered?

I'd be willing to entertain the EID tags if it would be about country of origin labeling.
The way I see it right or wrong these tags just put more responsibility on the cow calf producer. If it would actually help us and we actually got legitimate feedback from feeders and packers it could have at least that benefit that may help producers. The way it is likely to be when a tagged animal is slaughtered the tag is trashed and whatever history that could have been with it doesn't go back down the chain.
I understand how the current EID tags work we've had to use those in bred heifers for several years before the sale.
Yeah I'm skeptical, about the motives. It may start out as these innocent little tags with nothing but numbers, but that could grow into a whole nother concept with more technology.

 

[bird dog]

Well, the county does come to count your cows in Texas to make sure you can keep your ag exemption. I don't really have a problem with that.

I ask the head of the appraisal district about this one time. He said no we don't do that, we can get everything we need from a satellite picture. I ask what they look for. He said cow trails, hay rings, pens, the cows themselves are visible if they are there.

 

[Ebenezer]

Disease outbreak. The tags won't matter. Look at the poultry industry plan for a disease outbreak that is contagious and deemed a major issue. Pinpoint the farm with the finding, draw a circle around that farm and eliminate all poultry in that circle. If the disease is still out there, draw a bigger circle or go to the new location and draw the started circle and eliminate the poultry. I think that the first circle is 2 miles radius.

This is the problem with the government "control" of livestock and animals in general. Their answer is elimination of domestic animals but they control but do not claim ownership/liability of wild animals. Thus you can hit deer with your car and DNR will not increase the harvest limits of deer because of increased incidents and the government is never liable for the damages. They can depopulate your farm but they will not depopulate the wildlife which can be carriers. Same deal of low IQ thought out west releasing the wolves. Never a thought of the hardship of the folks who live and ranch there.

Tags or no tags, where is the justice in this basis of government control/ownership/enforcement/lack of ownership?