Mandatory EID tags for KY cattle

[Ebenezer]

"And the tinfoil hat doesn't work anymore. You need something better. I bought a Magneto helmet from Ebay, so I'm good!"
Would be easy to spot with a black spy drone. Try camo.

 

[simme]

Home births, no birth certificates, no social security numbers, no bank accounts, home school, live off the land, deep in the woods in a camo tent, don't venture out of the woods in the daylight, no contact with other people outside your tribe/family, no medical care, no commerce, only build fires at night under a shed, and no cows with tags. You will be safe. Unless the JW come to visit or the guy taking donations for the volunteer fire department. Don't take the free photo package from the fire department guy - that is a trap to steal your identity.

 

[angus9259]

They aren't collecting any data. If an animal comes up sick they want to know where it came from to help control any "spread" - by tracing it back to the point of origin. That and they put a little camera in each of them so they can verify the color of underwear you choose. Theres a fear we're moving away from white.

Last thing I'll ask for the 432 time what information do you think "they" are collecting from a passive tag that only has point of origin data?

If the gov't wants to know how many cows you have they will just send someone to count, or pass mandatory reporting laws with jail penalties for not doing it.

If your worried about carcass quality information, News flash that is being tracked and monitored by guys with skin in the game with or without your tag.

Anywho. You guys better get some heavy duty tinfoil hats.

If you are worried about someone collecting RFID tag "data", then you better take your cell phone and toss it in a lake. Because it collects actual useful/valuable information constantly...

 

[rocfarm]

Been thinking a bit about this thread. A thought to consider:

In the cattle industry we are not all equals.

Some, who have small herds, can't afford the efficiencies and even 'luxuries' of some of the other folks if we want to have a profitable operation that at least pays for itself and gives us a chance to enjoy all of the benefits of land ownership over the long term. And those folks who are 'LAND and cattle' people know what I'm talking about by 'long term' here.

Some elites, especially those who are in a position to profit from our small guy disarray, bad habits, lack of liquidity, and 'weak' understanding of the business might encourage us to continue the bad behaviors/bad decision making that leads to weak positions from which to deal/negotiate. Or, at least, these elites won't point out how we can improve. These same elites might also encourage us to discontinue old behaviors that were good for us, continue bad/unhelpful behaviors, adopt new bad behaviors, strategies or decision making processes that don't benefit us, especially over the long term (it's often the slow knife that kills best) all the while knowing they either wouldn't run their operation like that in a million years or that they won't be affected and might even benefit from these things (because they have enough capital to not have to play by the same rules) with the certainty that, on average, the other (small guy) group will lose. They might even use their elite amount of capital to try to influence rule makers in the industry to write rules that, over the long term, slowly choke out a system that currently lets the small guy do fine while also providing a perfectly safe, sustainable beef supply. They then might silently tell themselves that's why they deserve to be elite because they are good decision makers/influencers. They might then publicly laugh when things don't go well for the 'tin foil' guys who react in an inarticulate, bit too hasty way, because, even though the little guy can't pinpoint why she/he is slowly losing the sustainability battle and might mistakenly attribute their slow march to losses/selling out to something seemingly innocuous like EID tags, they do have the sense that something is amiss here, and it could be existential in nature.

When things go south, the elite might buy us out at discount, or, maybe worse, be our perpetual overlord/buyers/market maker we have to go to for business support. Then we are at the mercy of the price they want to give.

As I live in the city now, I've seen this dynamic more than once in my other business.

And it would seem that some folks at elite universities have seen it as well. This guy is way more articulate than myself, and he makes a great case. Check it out.

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/luxury-beliefs-that-only-the-privileged-can-afford-7f6b8a16

So, even though the little guy has won this time on the EID tag issue and I rejoice, I'd still offer this to the other little guys out there:

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT EID TAGS.

It's about autonomy, good decision making, privacy (your ability to keep your information to yourself so that you can negotiate from a position of strength), and your right and ability to enjoy some of the same advantages that the elite can afford but that we can often not afford, and which many of them don't want us to have access to in an easy manner, anyway, because that would weaken their position of strength.

The ability of people who care nothing about your agency or your interests to gather information on anything you do without your express consent is not to your advantage. They won't give you any information about themselves that they don't want you to have. You should deal with them in kind.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

I got this email from the Oregon Dept of Agriculture yesterday.

Hello Jersey Milker

Per federal law ( 9 CFR 86.4(B)(1)(iii) all sexually intact cattle (both dairy and beef) over 18 months of age, all dairy females of any age and all dairy males born after March 11, 2013, all cattle (beef and dairy) of any age for rodeo or recreational events, and all cattle (beef and dairy) of any age for shows or exhibitions require official ID to be in place for movement across state lines.

Oregon law does not dictate that cattle must have ID in place to move within Oregon boarders. However, the organization/group that puts on shows, events, exhibitions, etc. may require that animals be official Identified to attend.

and

Yes, an official metal tag is acceptable for travel across state lines.

The proposed USDA rule change would affect tags that are applied after the rule goes into effect. An animal that has an official metal tag applied (or in your case already in place) before the rule goes into effect is still allowed to move across state lines using that metal tag.

If your cow losses her tag after the rule goes into effect than she would need to be retagged with an RFID ear tag.

So, After Daphne passes on I will keep her Bangs tag and apply it to my young cow, who is not Bangs vaccinated since it is no longer required.

and

It will take effect 6 months after the rule is finalized and currently the rule is expected to be finalized in March. However, that timeline may change.

Thank you

So, if I or other producers keep and sell their cattle within the state of Oregon, don't cross state lines and are not show cattle or rodeo cattle, no nosy government tags on our cows and we keep our private locations to ourselves.

 

[CowboyRam]

I got this email from the Oregon Dept of Agriculture yesterday.

and

So, After Daphne passes on I will keep her Bangs tag and apply it to my young cow, who is not Bangs vaccinated since it is no longer required.

and

So, if I or other producers keep and sell their cattle within the state of Oregon, don't cross state lines and are not show cattle or rodeo cattle, no nosy government tags on our cows and we keep our private locations to ourselves.

I went to the Fremont county farm and ranch days this last week sponsored by the University of Wyoming. The state brand board veterinarian mentioned that the RFID 840 tag was needed to go across state lines.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

People selling local grass fed home butchered sides and quarters are making a killing here.

 

[simme]

So, After Daphne passes on I will keep her Bangs tag and apply it to my young cow, who is not Bangs vaccinated since it is no longer required.

You might want to check on the legality of that.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Don't care
Honeydew is not going anywhere anyway.

No telling how long I could stretch this out.
"according to our records, this cow is 40 years of age"

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Whatever this has to do with government ear tags, if you are not 'privileged' enough to read this Wall Street Journal article it can be read here free of charge.
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/luxury-beliefs-that-only-the-privileged-can-afford-7f6b8a16

 

[flounder]

There has never been a case of a cow having CWD, let alone being transmitted from a deer to a cow. Frankly, CWD has just been used to spread fear to gullible people and convince them they want more government "protection". It's baffling to me that after 20 years, people still think it's an actual problem.

LOL! Famous last words…

Transmission of the chronic wasting disease agent from elk to cattle after oronasal exposure

Justin Greenlee, Jifeng Bian, Zoe Lambert, Alexis Frese, and Eric Cassmann Virus and Prion Research Unit, National Animal Disease Center, USDA-ARS, Ames, IA, USA

Aims: The purpose of this study was to determine the susceptibility of cattle to chronic wasting disease agent from elk.

snip…

Results: Inoculum derived from MM132 elk resulted in similar attack rates and incubation periods in mice expressing wild type or K211 bovine PRNP, 35% at 531 days post inoculation (dpi) and 27% at 448 dpi, respectively. Inoculum from LM132 elk had a slightly higher attack rates in mice: 45% (693 dpi) in wild type cattle PRNP and 33% (468) in K211 mice. Inoculum from LL132 elk resulted in the highest attack rate in wild type bovinized mice (53% at 625 dpi), but no K211 mice were affected at >700 days. At approximately 70 mpi, the EK211 genotype steer developed clinical signs suggestive of prion disease, depression, low head carriage, hypersalivation, and ataxia, and was necropsied. Enzyme immunoassay (IDEXX) was positive in brainstem (OD=4.00, but non-detect in retropharyngeal lymph nodes and palatine tonsil. Immunoreactivity was largely limited to the brainstem, midbrain, and cervical spinal cord with a pattern that was primarily glia-associated.

Conclusions: Cattle with the E211K polymorphism are susceptible to the CWD agent after oronasal exposure of 0.2 g of infectious material.

Funded by: This research was funded in its entirety by congressionally appropriated funds to the United States Department of Agriculture, Agricultural Research Service. The funders of the work did not influence study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript.

"Cattle with the E211K polymorphism are susceptible to the CWD agent after oronasal exposure of 0.2 g of infectious material."

=====end

Strain characterization of chronic wasting disease in bovine-PrP transgenic mice

Snip…

Conclusions: Altogether, these results exhibit the diversity of CWD strains present in the panel of CWD isolates and the ability of at least some CWD isolates to infect bovine species. Cattle being one of the most important farming species, this ability represents a potential threat to both animal and human health, and consequently deserves further study.

Funded by: MCIN/AEI /10.13039/501100011033 and by European Union NextGeneration EU/PRTR

Grant number: PCI2020-120680-2 ICRAD

"Altogether, these results exhibit the diversity of CWD strains present in the panel of CWD isolates and the ability of at least some CWD isolates to infect bovine species. Cattle being one of the most important farming species, this ability represents a potential threat to both animal and human health, and consequently deserves further study."

=====end

https://prion2023.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Meeting-book-final-version2.pdf

Ruminant feed ban for cervids in the United States ?

Posted by flounder on 31 Jan 2015 at 20:14 GMT

Friday, December 14, 2012

DEFRA U.K. What is the risk of Chronic Wasting Disease CWD being introduced into Great Britain? A Qualitative Risk Assessment October 2012

snip...

In the USA, under the Food and Drug Administration's BSE Feed Regulation (21 CFR 589.2000) most material (exceptions include milk, tallow, and gelatin) from deer and elk is prohibited for use in feed for ruminant animals. With regards to feed for non-ruminant animals, under FDA law, CWD positive deer may not be used for any animal feed or feed ingredients. For elk and deer considered at high risk for CWD, the FDA recommends that these animals do not enter the animal feed system. However, this recommendation is guidance and not a requirement by law.

Animals considered at high risk for CWD include:

1) animals from areas declared to be endemic for CWD and/or to be CWD eradication zones and

2) deer and elk that at some time during the 60-month period prior to slaughter were in a captive herd that contained a CWD-positive animal.

Therefore, in the USA, materials from cervids other than CWD positive animals may be used in animal feed and feed ingredients for non-ruminants.

The amount of animal PAP that is of deer and/or elk origin imported from the USA to GB can not be determined, however, as it is not specified in TRACES. It may constitute a small percentage of the 8412 kilos of non-fish origin processed animal proteins that were imported from US into GB in 2011.

Overall, therefore, it is considered there is a __greater than negligible risk___ that (nonruminant) animal feed and pet food containing deer and/or elk protein is imported into GB.

There is uncertainty associated with this estimate given the lack of data on the amount of deer and/or elk protein possibly being imported in these products.

snip...

https://web.archive.org/web/2017040.../files/qra_chronic-wasting-disease-121029.pdf

Docket No. FDA-2003-D-0432 (formerly 03D-0186) Use of Material from Deer and Elk in Animal Feed

PUBLIC SUBMISSION

Terry Singeltary Sr.

Posted by the Food and Drug Administration on May 17, 2016

Docket No. FDA-2003-D-0432 (formerly 03D-0186) Use of Material from Deer and Elk in Animal Feed Singeltary Submission

https://www.regulations.gov/comment/FDA-2003-D-0432-0011

***> Monday, November 13, 2023

Food and Drug Administration's BSE Feed Regulation (21 CFR 589.2000) Singeltary Another Request for Update 2023

https://fdabse589.blogspot.com/2023/11/food-and-drug-administrations-bse-feed.html

 

[flounder]

There has never been a case of a cow having CWD, let alone being transmitted from a deer to a cow. Frankly, CWD has just been used to spread fear to gullible people and convince them they want more government "protection". Its baffling to me that after 20 years, people still think its an actual problem.

Cattle with the EK211 PRNP polymorphism are susceptible to the H-type bovine spongiform encephalopathy agent from either E211K or wild type donors after oronasal inoculation

Justin J. Greenleea, Eric D. Cassmanna, S. Jo Moorea,b, and M. Heather West Greenleec

Aims: In 2006, a case of H-type bovine spongiform encephalopathy (H-BSE) was reported in a cow with a previously unreported prion protein polymorphism (E211K). The E211K polymorphism is heritable and homologous to the E200K mutation in humans that is the most frequent PRNPmutation associated with familial Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. Although the prevalence of the E211K polymorphism is low, cattle carrying the K211 allele develop H-type BSE with a rapid onset after experimental inoculation by the intracranial route. The purpose of this study was to investigate whether the agents of H-type BSE or H-type BSE associated with the E211K polymorphism transmit to wild type cattle or cattle with the K211 allele after oronasal exposure.

snip…

Results: Three-out-of-four (75%) calves with the EK211 genotype developed clinical signs of H-BSE including inattentiveness, loss of body condition, weakness, ataxia, and muscle fasciculations and were euthanized. Two of the positive EK211steers received H-BSE US 2004 inoculum (Incubation Period (IP): 59.3 and 72.3 months) while the other positive steer received the E211K H-BSE inoculum (IP: 49.7 months). EIA confirmed that abundant misfolded protein (O.D. 2.57–4.0) in the brainstem, and IHC demonstrated PrPScthroughout the brain. All wild type recipient cattle and a single EK211 steer remained asymptomatic for the duration of the experiment (approximately 7 years post-inoculation) and no abnormal prion protein was detected in these cattle by EIA.

Conclusions: This study demonstrates that the H-type BSE agent is transmissible by the oronasal route. Cattle with the EK211 genotype are oronasally susceptible to small doses of the H-BSE agent from either EK211 or EE211 (wild type) donors. Wild-type EE211 cattle remained asymptomatic for the duration of the experiment with this small dose (0.1 g) of inoculum. These results reinforce the need for ongoing surveillance for classical and atypical BSE to minimize the risk of potentially infectious tissues entering the animal or human food chains.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9467582/

Title: Transmission of atypical BSE: a possible origin of Classical BSE in cattle

snip…

Results: After 6 years of incubation, 3/4 animals (2/2 steers IC challenged with brain from P1 L-BSE oral challenge and 1/2 steer IC challenged with brain from P1 H-BSE oral challenge) developed clinical disease. Analysis of these animals revealed high levels of PrPSc in their brains, having biochemical properties similar to that of PrPSc in C-BSE.

Conclusion: These results demonstrate the oral transmission potential of atypical BSE in cattle. Surprisingly, regardless of which atypical type of BSE was used for P1 oral challenge, PrPSc in the P2 animals acquired biochemical characteristics similar to that of PrPSc in C-BSE, suggesting atypical BSE as a possible origin of C-BSE in UK.

https://prion2023.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Meeting-book-final-version2.pdf

Title: Disease phenotype of classical sheep scrapie is changed upon experimental passage through white-tailed deer

​

Publication Date: 12/4/2023 DOI: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.ppat.1011815 Interpretive Summary: snip… These results indicate that sheep could be susceptible to the scrapie agent after passage through deer if exposed to the agent in natural or agricultural settings, which could be a confounding factor to the scrapie eradication program. National and state regulatory and wildlife officials should consider this information when developing plans to reduce or eliminate TSEs. Technical Abstract: Transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE) agents have strain variations that influence disease phenotype and may affect the potential for interspecies transmission. Since deer and sheep may use the same grazing land, it is important to understand the potential transmission of TSEs between these species. The US scrapie isolate (No.13-7) had a 100% attack rate in white-tailed deer after oronasal challenge. The purpose of this study was to determine if sheep are susceptible to oronasal challenge with the scrapie agent from white-tailed deer. Suffolk lambs of various prion protein genotypes were challenged by the oronasal route with a 10% brain homogenate from scrapie-affected white-tailed deer. Sheep were euthanized and necropsied upon development of clinical signs or at the end of the experiment (72 months post-inoculation). Tissues were tested for PrPSc by enzyme immunoassay, western blot, and immunohistochemistry. The first sheep (2/2) to develop clinical signs at approximately 29 months post-inoculation (MPI) had the VRQ/VRQ genotype. One of the two sheep with the ARQ/ARQ genotype also developed clinical signs at 48 MPI. This is in contrast to the original No.13-7 inoculum that has a faster incubation period in sheep with the ARQ/ARQ genotype compared to sheep of the VRQ/VRQ genotype. The shorter incubation period in VRQ/VRQ sheep than ARQ/ARQ sheep after passage through deer indicates a phenotype change. This is important because scrapie infected deer could transmit disease to sheep resulting in new scrapie strain properties. This work raises the concern that scrapie infected deer could serve as a confounding factor to scrapie eradication programs as the scrapie agent from deer is transmissible to sheep by the oronasal route. https://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publication/?seqNo115=405929​

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

This thread has been taken over by a troll. It is possible to hover over the troll's avatar and hit the ignore button.

 

[moses388]

Last thing ill ask for the 432 time what information do you think "they" are collecting from a passive tag that only has point of origin data?

If the gov't wants to know how many cows you have they will just send someone to count, or pass mandatory reporting laws with jail penalties for not doing it.

https://www.nationalbeefwire.com/watch-how-the-cattle-industry-has-agreed-to-the-lie

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Yesterday I read in Progressive Dairy magazine that by 2030 (six years from now) dairys are going to have to cut their 'carbon footprint' by half. I see these funny round tags in the cow's ears.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Every dairy I've seen us those tags or their own tags to track milk production and other traits. The tag is read by the machine as it milks the cow so they can see changes in each cows milk production in nearly real time.....

 

[gman4691]

Besides the fact that they want you to tag feeder cattle. It's not much different than the old steel tags that we put in all breeding age cattle returning to the country.

If it's like the sheep tags maybe the state will give them to producers if you put them in on the farm.

I remember those metal tags from when I was a kid…haven't thought about them in ages

 

[gman4691]

We called the KCA office as was recommended by the Paris Stockyards.
We found that what we were told by the folks at KCA is somewhat different than their own list says, though I'm sure they left wiggle room in their responses.
We were told it would not cost the producers because of government funding. Our response was a question who pays for the funding? Our Answer we all do.
Another issue that we were told was that it was going to just be for tracking only and no information would go anywhere. Yet in the list it mentions being built with infrastructure that supports other uses of ID. That is a glaring problem that I see.
These associations are pushing this on us like a Trojan horse. Once it gets in place it will open us all up to a Pandora's box of potential Government and packer control.

Yeah…crap like that is easy to implement but almost impossible to eliminate…I'm a "less government is better" kind of guy…seen too many well-meaning people get mired down in the bureaucratic cesspool…too many government employees administrating these types of programs don't know which end of a cow goes, "moo".

 

[gman4691]

@rocfarm ; Not sure what dairy rules they are trying to use on cow/calf operators... The mandatory EID tags are for "SUPPOSEDLY" , better traceability of cattle for the very unlikely there is a disease outbreak.... ALL THIS IS, IS MORE ABOUT CONTROL.... and it will go the direction of the same lines of the new "PET TAX" they are trying to implement in CO....
It is all about wanting to KNOW more about your business than they need to know... so they can tie it in with the Carbon/Air quality/Green new deal/ and all that garbage... this way they can come along and say you have too many cows and they are making too much CO2 with their belching and cow farts... and that you need to start "sharing" them with your less fortunate neighbors because you do not need that many...

As far as the Bangs Vaccinations... because there is Brucellosis in Bison herds, proven through blood tests on the Yellowstone herd.... among others I am sure... and it can be passed fairly easily... the whole thing about having them vaxxed is to prevent them from carrying it.... and for the whole thing Dave was talking about with the cows at the sale out there... only being allowed to be sold in state if not bangs'd... to prevent them from carrying it out of state to other herds... since it will not necessarily kill a cow but becomes a vector to carry it to other animals... it perpetuates the problem... And it can be passed to humans so a major threat...
It was a big problem in dairy way back, and it could be transmitted through the milk if I am not wrong... raw milk consumption... as well as meat... WELL..... beef cattle are meat animals... so they can be carriers through their meat... if undercooked/uncooked meat is consumed, humans can become infected... so they stopped it through the milk transmission by vaccinating dairy animals... It's a 1 time vaccination... you can get the vet to do it when he is on farm for preg checks or something else... then they will never need it again and they will not contract it from other mammals that have it...

One other thing... they get tattooed... It saved us once when some heifers got over into another pasture and the less than "straight arrow" owners tried to say that those couple of heifers were not ours... Called them out about it and got them in the chute and I pulled the bangs papers and proved they were ours with the tattoo's in the ear.... they had cut our tags out of the heifers ears... but our heifers knew us, knew what grain was for, came to call... and once we identified them... they did not have a leg to stand on... (they later went to jail for dealing drugs and stealing another neighbors cattle and selling them)....

Like I said, I still bangs my heifers so they cannot pass it to a calf through the milk, and then become a carrier...or have to deal with abortions or anything else...

European governments are getting some very real and pretty effective push back from the farmers over there…to the point of seeing less food on the shelves…they tend to back down when it effects their dinner tables…having money to buy food doesn't mean much when there's no food to buy…have seen a number of stories from Germany, France, & Spain…good to see the farmers fighting back…might come to that in the U.S. before it's all said and done.

 

[rocfarm]

European governments are getting some very real and pretty effective push back from the farmers over there…to the point of seeing less food on the shelves…they tend to back down when it effects their dinner tables…having money to buy food doesn't mean much when there's no food to buy…have seen a number of stories from Germany, France, & Spain…good to see the farmers fighting back…might come to that in the U.S. before it's all said and done.

Well, I apologize to everyone for stirring up such a hornets nest.

For those of us who have a tendency to get angry and radical real quick, I'd suggest we always slow down a bit and think.

But for those who think that there are never many hidden things/caveats/power implications to a program as big as this EID thing, I'd suggest maybe acknowledging that those of us who are more skeptical are not without reason.

Truce flag, maybe:

1) Herd health is important. No sane cattle producer would ever want to intentionally do something to hurt the consumer's positive perception of our beef supply.

2) Technology is not evil. It's a general use tool. But, if most are honest, I think we can admit that modern tech is a lot like a gun. You can use it to feed and protect your family by putting meat on the table and keeping predators away, or you can hurt yourself or others very seriously with it.

3) For those of us who don't control or can't really understand (or can't spend hours and thousands of dollars for the education) this new technology being put into use, history has shown we tend to lose out. That's not paranoia, that's fact. Check out the history of colonialism if you really don't agree with this statement.

4) Smaller producers have every right to give input, protest, and vote against new beef industry measures. And we shouldn't have to subsidize the industry by running a herd at a loss on our places. If we own land, we have a right to have access to a beef-producing model that is not so regulated that, over the long term, the only people that make money are the feed lots or the packers. Letting us have huge control of how we manage our herds goes the farthest towards giving us this opportunity. Increasing regulation takes away from that opportunity.

5) We need elites in the business. We need elite market makers, geneticists, and herds. They move us forward. But they need their checks and balances as well.

6) We can all agree we have a good thing going with cattle markets and land prices right now. Maybe we should think long and hard about how to maximize the benefits for others in the same way we'd like the regulators to maximize the benefits for us.

Congratulations to my fellow Texans on the rains. May your pastures recover fully this coming spring.