Make Kentucky Cattle Great Again?

[CattleMan1920]

Branded..

don't you own just like 50 acres and raise like 30 cows?

No, way less than that. We have a 10 acre mini farm with 5 head. I wish we could hit 30 one day, that would be HUGE! LOL!

I don't know where you heard we were so big, 50 acres and 30 cows? Crazy talk!

 

[ddd75]

They purchased their first registered Angus heifers from Gordon Downing, a banker and Angus breeder, and their first registered bull from Charles Cannon, Stone Gate Farm.

James was one of the first breeders to AI in his area, and over the years ************* has evolved into a strictly AI-bred herd with no herd bulls, breeding 40 cows a year.

The 52-head herd is still managed by James and Jane to this day.


so 52 head then?>

 

[bball]

They purchased their first registered Angus heifers from Gordon Downing, a banker and Angus breeder, and their first registered bull from Charles Cannon, Stone Gate Farm.

James was one of the first breeders to AI in his area, and over the years ************* has evolved into a strictly AI-bred herd with no herd bulls, breeding 40 cows a year.

The 52-head herd is still managed by James and Jane to this day.


so 52 head then?>

What are you driving at Triple d?
What's it really matter how many head or acres he has? He has a vision and is pursuing it? He has shared aspects of it here on CT, and for whatever reason, that rubs some people the wrong way. I dont understand why. I want him to be successful just like i would want for you and every other cattleman that is on CT to have success.

 

[CattleMan1920]

They purchased their first registered Angus heifers from Gordon Downing, a banker and Angus breeder, and their first registered bull from Charles Cannon, Stone Gate Farm.

James was one of the first breeders to AI in his area, and over the years ************* has evolved into a strictly AI-bred herd with no herd bulls, breeding 40 cows a year.

The 52-head herd is still managed by James and Jane to this day.


so 52 head then?>

What are you driving at Triple d?
What's it really matter how many head or acres he has? He has a vision and is pursuing it? He has shared aspects of it here on CT, and for whatever reason, that rubs some people the wrong way. I dont understand why. I want him to be successful just like i would want for you and every other cattleman that is on CT to have success.

I appreciate what you said.

And to the above cut and pasted info, we are no longer at those numbers.

 

[CreekAngus]

They purchased their first registered Angus heifers from Gordon Downing, a banker and Angus breeder, and their first registered bull from Charles Cannon, Stone Gate Farm.

James was one of the first breeders to AI in his area, and over the years ************* has evolved into a strictly AI-bred herd with no herd bulls, breeding 40 cows a year.

The 52-head herd is still managed by James and Jane to this day.


so 52 head then?>

What are you driving at Triple d?
What's it really matter how many head or acres he has? He has a vision and is pursuing it? He has shared aspects of it here on CT, and for whatever reason, that rubs some people the wrong way. I dont understand why. I want him to be successful just like i would want for you and every other cattleman that is on CT to have success.

I appreciate what you said.

And to the above cut and pasted info, we are no longer at those numbers.

I think I'm a little bit flummoxed. After reading all of Branded's posts I thought he was the real deal. I was pretty impressed with his farm using heat monitors and all, kind of felt sorry for him, because people kept picking on him for it. He criticizes his neighbors for what they feed and how they operate, knocking'em for having to sell out, because a lack of foresight. All the mud he has to deal with and struggles of getting the cows in and then we find out he has FIVE, 5,Cinco Cows. I'm here thinking this guy has connections to SAV and Herbster because he's ordering a 100 straws a year and after reading all his posts about this bull that bull, this genetics vs that genetics, I had to believe he was a real cowman. Embryos and genetic superiority of his herd and all that stuff, it was just hot air. Seriously who has to use heat detectors on five cows? If you suck that bad at looking for a standing heat, buy a steer, it would cost less than a heat detection system. I know some guys running heat detection but we are talking 100 plus, spread over multiple locations. You are like me, a hobby farmer. Branded you are no more capable of criticizing your neighbor for their feed choices than I am. With a limited heard I can pretty much feed however I want to, this isn't mine or your living. You criticize the hell out of people and act as though you have some expertise or insight, you have FIVE cows. I don't know how you talk about using this bull, that bull, blah, blah, you have five cows. My goodness set them up on CIDR's and get'em breed in a day, by one bull. Man you had me fooled with your nonsense. I actually thought you ran a program, when you talked about not wanting to sell commercial bulls, that was a completely moronic thread, now knowing you have five cows, five, cinco, 5.

 

[CattleMan1920]

What are you driving at Triple d?
What's it really matter how many head or acres he has? He has a vision and is pursuing it? He has shared aspects of it here on CT, and for whatever reason, that rubs some people the wrong way. I dont understand why. I want him to be successful just like i would want for you and every other cattleman that is on CT to have success.

I appreciate what you said.

And to the above cut and pasted info, we are no longer at those numbers.

I think I'm a little bit flummoxed. After reading all of Branded's posts I thought he was the real deal. I was pretty impressed with his farm using heat monitors and all, kind of felt sorry for him, because people kept picking on him for it. He criticizes his neighbors for what they feed and how they operate, knocking'em for having to sell out, because a lack of foresight. All the mud he has to deal with and struggles of getting the cows in and then we find out he has FIVE, 5,Cinco Cows. I'm here thinking this guy has connections to SAV and Herbster because he's ordering a 100 straws a year and after reading all his posts about this bull that bull, this genetics vs that genetics, I had to believe he was a real cowman. Embryos and genetic superiority of his herd and all that stuff, it was just hot air. Seriously who has to use heat detectors on five cows? If you suck that bad at looking for a standing heat, buy a steer, it would cost less than a heat detection system. I know some guys running heat detection but we are talking 100 plus, spread over multiple locations. You are like me, a hobby farmer. Branded you are no more capable of criticizing your neighbor for their feed choices than I am. With a limited heard I can pretty much feed however I want to, this isn't mine or your living. You criticize the be nice out of people and act as though you have some expertise or insight, you have FIVE cows. I don't know how you talk about using this bull, that bull, blah, blah, you have five cows. My goodness set them up on CIDR's and get'em breed in a day, by one bull. Man you had me fooled with your nonsense. I actually thought you ran a program, when you talked about not wanting to sell commercial bulls, that was a completely moronic thread, now knowing you have five cows, five, cinco, 5.

I was messing with Triple D who was knocking my operation. I assure you that we have a LOT more than 5 cows! We have over 50 females in production right now all registered, and more than 1/2 of them are from AI sires. Right now we have over 30 confirmed settled past 60 days to top AI sires, and will wrap up the rest soon. Most are AI'd to sexed semen (SAV Raindance) so the females are going to shoot up there pretty quickly. If you are looking for a rare animal that is proven via DNA for parentage we usually have it available.

We will probably top out at about 150 registered females because quite frankly, I don't want all the added responsibility of going to 250-300 or more. We should be able to AI 150 without too much trouble with our set up. If things change and we decide to move up to 250 or more, we can easily scale with what we have available.

We don't use synchronization as of yet, because with the system we have, we get an alert whenever one comes into heat and we put a straw in her. The weather and mud has been a challenge this year, but we are getting them all knocked out, and the few older ones that are a bit hard to get up are being handled by a herd sire from Stone Gate which will soon be replaced by an SAV Harvestor son that's ready to go.

I'm sorry that you were confused about my comments to Trip D and hope this clears things up. When we get up to 150 dams AI'd per year, then proven via Biopryn at 28 days and then again at 60 days, then I would say there are not too many operations in KY pulling that off.

As for my criticism of others, I don't think you ever hear me laying into producers that make an effort to do things right. If anything I praise them. I'm harsh on those that give Kentucky cattle a bad name and could care less what they are producing and offering out.

 

[CreekAngus]

I appreciate what you said.

And to the above cut and pasted info, we are no longer at those numbers.

I think I'm a little bit flummoxed. After reading all of Branded's posts I thought he was the real deal. I was pretty impressed with his farm using heat monitors and all, kind of felt sorry for him, because people kept picking on him for it. He criticizes his neighbors for what they feed and how they operate, knocking'em for having to sell out, because a lack of foresight. All the mud he has to deal with and struggles of getting the cows in and then we find out he has FIVE, 5,Cinco Cows. I'm here thinking this guy has connections to SAV and Herbster because he's ordering a 100 straws a year and after reading all his posts about this bull that bull, this genetics vs that genetics, I had to believe he was a real cowman. Embryos and genetic superiority of his herd and all that stuff, it was just hot air. Seriously who has to use heat detectors on five cows? If you suck that bad at looking for a standing heat, buy a steer, it would cost less than a heat detection system. I know some guys running heat detection but we are talking 100 plus, spread over multiple locations. You are like me, a hobby farmer. Branded you are no more capable of criticizing your neighbor for their feed choices than I am. With a limited heard I can pretty much feed however I want to, this isn't mine or your living. You criticize the be nice out of people and act as though you have some expertise or insight, you have FIVE cows. I don't know how you talk about using this bull, that bull, blah, blah, you have five cows. My goodness set them up on CIDR's and get'em breed in a day, by one bull. Man you had me fooled with your nonsense. I actually thought you ran a program, when you talked about not wanting to sell commercial bulls, that was a completely moronic thread, now knowing you have five cows, five, cinco, 5.

I was messing with Triple D who was knocking my operation. I assure you that we have a LOT more than 5 cows! We have over 50 females in production right now all registered, and more than 1/2 of them are from AI sires. Right now we have over 30 confirmed settled past 60 days to top AI sires, and will wrap up the rest soon. Most are AI'd to sexed semen (SAV Raindance) so the females are going to shoot up there pretty quickly. If you are looking for a rare animal that is proven via DNA for parentage we usually have it available.

We will probably top out at about 150 registered females because quite frankly, I don't want all the added responsibility of going to 250-300 or more. We should be able to AI 150 without too much trouble with our set up. If things change and we decide to move up to 250 or more, we can easily scale with what we have available.

We don't use synchronization as of yet, because with the system we have, we get an alert whenever one comes into heat and we put a straw in her. The weather and mud has been a challenge this year, but we are getting them all knocked out, and the few older ones that are a bit hard to get up are being handled by a herd sire from Stone Gate which will soon be replaced by an SAV Harvestor son that's ready to go.

I'm sorry that you were confused about my comments to Trip D and hope this clears things up. When we get up to 150 dams AI'd per year, then proven via Biopryn at 28 days and then again at 60 days, then I would say there are not too many operations in KY pulling that off.

As for my criticism of others, I don't think you ever hear me laying into producers that make an effort to do things right. If anything I praise them. I'm harsh on those that give Kentucky cattle a bad name and could care less what they are producing and offering out.

My apologies. I don't know if you got Triple D, but you got me pretty good. Hey if you're running that many cattle then you do have some authority behind what you write.

 

[ddd75]

so you don't have 50..but have 50...but have 150?


What>?

 

[ddd75]

They purchased their first registered Angus heifers from Gordon Downing, a banker and Angus breeder, and their first registered bull from Charles Cannon, Stone Gate Farm.

James was one of the first breeders to AI in his area, and over the years ************* has evolved into a strictly AI-bred herd with no herd bulls, breeding 40 cows a year.

The 52-head herd is still managed by James and Jane to this day.


so 52 head then?>

What are you driving at Triple d?
What's it really matter how many head or acres he has? He has a vision and is pursuing it? He has shared aspects of it here on CT, and for whatever reason, that rubs some people the wrong way. I dont understand why. I want him to be successful just like i would want for you and every other cattleman that is on CT to have success.

I have nothing wrong with his "vision"

I do have a problem with him downing producers who I know and am friends with.

 

[CattleMan1920]

The only people I look down on are people that neglect their animals. If you feel that is your situation, too bad! If it's not, don't be bothered.

I don't like to see animals suffer because their owners either don't care or have planned so poorly that they are no longer able to feed them.

I stand by what I said about Kentucky cattle. They leave a lot to be desired, that's a fact you cannot explain away.

If you think our cattle are great here in the KY, then explain why the average Angus bull price in Kentucky is about 50% lower than other states? Tell me why we are the biggest producer east of the Mississippi, but we have low prices. Why did we have a vet falsify health records with a family that has a major cattle operation in Kentucky to ship sick cattle out of state? Why? Was it because our cattle are so fantastic here? There are producers here in Kentucky that do a great job, commercial and registered, but there are others that don't know jack about cattle.

I've not heard of too many people in Kentucky that could put together 40-50 fancy black steers, that 50% or more could score prime. Do you know of any? I would like to speak with them for ideas. One thing is for sure, that would not be an issue for producers out west or up north. They could do that blindfolded.

We have the resources here, but lack vision. Old habits die hard. Instead of looking forward, many are stuck reminiscing on the tobacco days or dairy. Where has that gotten them?

I see equipment piling up at the auction house, why? I guess people need cash. Who knows? It can't be because their businesses are expanding.

 

[Ebenezer]

Sounds like it is getting worse instead of better.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Sounds like it is getting worse instead of better.

It's self inflicted. Things don't have to be the way they are.

 

[bigbluegrass]

Sounds like it is getting worse instead of better.

It's self inflicted. Things don't have to be the way they are.

What are you going to do to make Kentucky Cattle Great again? Maybe I missed it in the previous discussion.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Sounds like it is getting worse instead of better.

It's self inflicted. Things don't have to be the way they are.

What are you going to do to make Kentucky Cattle Great again? Maybe I missed it in the previous discussion.

Well.....since you asked. LOL!

Genetics first and foremost.

If you were to take my county for example. We have probably around 20k head of beef cattle here, which is not insignificant. We have a large registered Angus breeder, who I'm nearly certain sells most of their bulls out of the county or state. We have another famous one nearby that does the same. I sell everything I have outside of the county as well. Why would that be? I will tell you, most producers here see a bovine and say "if it moos and can walk, then that's all I need" They have little regard for genetics that will put their herd ahead of the competition, and there is plenty of competition.

If I were an ABS or Select Sires rep, I would have a HARD time making a go of it in our county. What's funny about that is this, back when dairy was in full swing, our dairy farmers here took great pride in their animals and they did a MASSIVE amount of AI. Now that dairy is dead and people have switched to beef, they couldn't give a rat's azz what is walking around in the field. Their breeding combinations are more like a bad science experiment gone wrong versus a real business plan. They complain about profitability, but they aren't breeding for what the market is demanding.

I'm not saying that everyone should sell everything and go straight Angus. Breed whatever you feel like, if you want Longhorns in Kentucky, go for it, but don't be surprised at the Angus guys eating your lunch at the yards.

I can say this, if this county where I'm located would switch to commercial Angus operations, get in tight with their ABS or Select Sires rep, learn to AI, or use an AI tech to get the job done, and work hard on improving their cows and heifers, then I would venture to say this would probably be the most profitable cattle county in the state of Kentucky. Will that happen? NEVER!

Whether you like Angus or you hate them, tell me another breed that has the marketing or brand power that they do? Nothing against Longhorns, but I have never seen "Certified Longhorn Beef" at the grocery.

The fact of the matter is this, most producers here couldn't give a da.mn about genetics, a cow is just something that eats grass and sh.ts. and if lucky, makes a calf that they can drag off to the yards for a tiny profit, again if lucky. If you deny that, you are kidding yourself.

Here are two AI stories for you. First is from a guy that has done AI for me, and is very well liked in the community. He told me that a guy called him and said "I have 15 heifers I need you to breed" so the guy drove over and there were 15 heifers out in the field walking around, none in heat, so he called the guy and was told "Go ahead and get them up and breed them" The AI tech needless to say went home shaking his head. The other guy, a young man who just learned to AI at Morehead State University told me "it's like pulling teeth from a rooster to get people on the AI bandwagon" He has ads up everywhere but told me business is non-existent. Even his own Dad thinks it's a joke from what he said. Remember, 20K head of beef cattle in our county!

There is no magic bullet for success, but one thing is for sure I could take a 20-30 cow operation in my county, sync all the cows and heifers available to Hoover Dam, what didn't settle use a top quality Angus bull from Branded or ANY OTHER reputable Angus breeder, and after 9 months you get Hoover Dam daughters, and you steer everything else.

2nd year, you breed the whole herd to Sydgen Enhance, same plan, keep the daughters, steer everything else, but now you start moving out the low-quality cows from year one.

3 year you breed the whole herd to Basin Payweight 1682 or Vermilion Spur E143, same plan.

I guarantee you that by year 4 you will have a herd that makes your original herd look like culls, and the steers you are selling will top the sale each time you take them to the stockyards. Not to mention you would have some valuable commercial cows and heifers if you ever decided to sell out.

So why don't people around here do that? The excuses abound, "too complicated" "the semen is too expensive" "I don't want to buy a tank and deal with the hassle of having it filled" "it's just easier to use a bull" "I'm too busy" There are a million excuses, but no action. The bad part is this, UK and Morehead, nor do the local extension offices tell you to do what I'm saying, nor do they make a strong effort to teach AI classes ALL YEAR LONG. They don't understand this because they aren't doing it for the most part, they aren't walking the talk.

You asked for it, I gave it to you. Do you need to raise only Angus? NOPE! Raise anything you please. Angus work well in Kentucky, Angus are in demand, top notch commercial Angus heifers are an easy sell. If you want to swim upstream, be my guest, but I'm not telling you wrong here. :deadhorse:

 

[bigbluegrass]

It's self inflicted. Things don't have to be the way they are.

What are you going to do to make Kentucky Cattle Great again? Maybe I missed it in the previous discussion.

Well.....since you asked. LOL!

Genetics first and foremost.

I am going to ignore your bias toward angus for now and your ramblings about how great things were back in the day of dairies. You are about as bad as the locals you like to make fun of.

I will agree that genetics can make a difference. So how do you get KY cattle producers to use the genetics to "make Kentucky Cattle Great again"?

I don't think it is remotely realistic to expect most commercial cattle producers to use AI, regardless of the state you are talking about. As I am sure you know, it takes a lot of time and effort. It isn't for everyone. You could do a poll on the board to find out how many commercial cattle producers use AI. I would expect it to be around maybe 10%, but it could be less. Based on what I have seen, that sure isn't a KY problem. In fact, I don't think most people would see that as a problem at all. There are plenty of live bulls with good genetics.

You said you can't sell bulls in your county. Why is that? Have you identified what you are doing wrong? Have you identified why the local cattle producers are buying the "wrong" genetics from someone else?

 

[CattleMan1920]

What are you going to do to make Kentucky Cattle Great again? Maybe I missed it in the previous discussion.

Well.....since you asked. LOL!

Genetics first and foremost.

I am going to ignore your bias toward angus for now and your ramblings about how great things were back in the day of dairies. You are about as bad as the locals you like to make fun of.

I will agree that genetics can make a difference. So how do you get KY cattle producers to use the genetics to "make Kentucky Cattle Great again"?

I don't think it is remotely realistic to expect most commercial cattle producers to use AI, regardless of the state you are talking about. As I am sure you know, it takes a lot of time and effort. It isn't for everyone. You could do a poll on the board to find out how many commercial cattle producers use AI. I would expect it to be around maybe 10%, but it could be less. Based on what I have seen, that sure isn't a KY problem. In fact, I don't think most people would see that as a problem at all. There are plenty of live bulls with good genetics.

You said you can't sell bulls in your county. Why is that? Have you identified what you are doing wrong? Have you identified why the local cattle producers are buying the "wrong" genetics from someone else?

If the average herd size in Kentucky is 15-30 cows, why would AI be so complicated? Sync them all, call the AI tech and just do it. Then turn them out with a bull a few weeks later.

NEFarmWife, if I'm not mistaken said her operation goes through 500 straws of semen a year, so a small herd in Kentucky should be a breeze compared to that.

I haven't sold bulls in my county because the majority of people here are looking for bulls that are in the $1k-1500 range. I won't sell my bulls for that price. When people ask about a "cheap" bull I tell them maybe they can find one at the stockyards that will work. Our bulls have work and money invested in them, we don't give them away.

As for my comment about dairy farms extensively using AI, I'm correct on that. I guarantee that there are former dairy farmers that did a ton of AI in their day, and I'm pretty certain they saw milk production rise as a result of better genetics. Yet they don't see any benefit in AI'ng beef cattle?

I'm not telling anyone that they MUST do this or that, I am however saying, if what you are doing right now is not producing anything but average to below average results, then maybe AI could change the situation. After all, for $20-40 you can get a top operation's best bull, he's just in a straw, not your field.

 

[plumber_greg]

James, I know you are not, but with respect do you realize you sound like a highscool kid who thinks that if daddy and uncle Joe would just listen to him they would realize how easy it is?
JMO. GS

 

[M-5]

I have tried to understand the meaning of this thread. And all I can figure is you have some stock in one of the semen companies. I assume you realize that if everyone in KY did what you are advocating your stock would be devalued down to just a notch above everyone else. You must also be of a socialist mindset where you want everything equal. There is a need for scrub cows, commercial cows, registered , and elite operations.

 

[True Grit Farms]

It makes absolutely no sense to AI 15 or 20 cows and then turn them out to a bull. Either you do AI or you don't. There's no doubt AI is expensive and time consuming and the results won't be that noticeable over using a good bull. I'm at a loss why folks in Kentucky won't come to Georgia and buy good proven and tested bulls for a reasonable price?

 

[Dave]

It makes absolutely no sense to AI 15 or 20 cows and then turn them out to a bull. Either you do AI or you don't. There's no doubt AI is expensive and time consuming and the results won't be that noticeable over using a good bull. I'm at a loss why folks in Kentucky won't come to Georgia and buy good proven and tested bulls for a reasonable price?

I am at a loss to know why if Brook is so worried about the quality of Kentucky cattle that he doesn't raise some decent bulls at a reasonable price? It seems that there is a market which needs to be filled.