Make Kentucky Cattle Great Again?

[True Grit Farms]

It makes absolutely no sense to AI 15 or 20 cows and then turn them out to a bull. Either you do AI or you don't. There's no doubt AI is expensive and time consuming and the results won't be that noticeable over using a good bull. I'm at a loss why folks in Kentucky won't come to Georgia and buy good proven and tested bulls for a reasonable price?

I am at a loss to know why if Brook is so worried about the quality of Kentucky cattle that he doesn't raise some decent bulls at a reasonable price? It seems that there is a market which needs to be filled.

Dave to much overhead, and you won't get anywhere selling bulls cheap. Branded is swinging for the fences and has a good plan, hopefully it works out great for him. I look at everything as hamburger and try to cut corners everywhere possible.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

How would a South Georgia bull adapt to KY fescue?

 

[Dave]

It makes absolutely no sense to AI 15 or 20 cows and then turn them out to a bull. Either you do AI or you don't. There's no doubt AI is expensive and time consuming and the results won't be that noticeable over using a good bull. I'm at a loss why folks in Kentucky won't come to Georgia and buy good proven and tested bulls for a reasonable price?

I am at a loss to know why if Brook is so worried about the quality of Kentucky cattle that he doesn't raise some decent bulls at a reasonable price? It seems that there is a market which needs to be filled.

Dave to much overhead, and you won't get anywhere selling bulls cheap. Branded is swinging for the fences and has a good plan, hopefully it works out great for him. I look at everything as hamburger and try to cut corners everywhere possible.

I didn't say cheap. I said reasonable. If people are doing OK selling yearling steers at $1000. What more expense is there to raise yearling bulls for $1,500-2,000? I could go to Thomas Angus sale next week and buy a dozen or more bred heifers for not much over $3,000 a head. Papered, AI sired, AI bred, with great pedigrees. So that is double the price of a commercial heifer. Feed cost are the same on the cow as a commercial cow. Maybe a touch more on the bull after weaning but you don't have to stuff them. It cost me $50 a head to sync and AI heifers. Or just use one of his well bred bulls to breed cows. There is money there. Not move to a south sea island money. But a profit.

 

[bigbluegrass]

Well.....since you asked. LOL!

Genetics first and foremost.

I am going to ignore your bias toward angus for now and your ramblings about how great things were back in the day of dairies. You are about as bad as the locals you like to make fun of.

I will agree that genetics can make a difference. So how do you get KY cattle producers to use the genetics to "make Kentucky Cattle Great again"?

I don't think it is remotely realistic to expect most commercial cattle producers to use AI, regardless of the state you are talking about. As I am sure you know, it takes a lot of time and effort. It isn't for everyone. You could do a poll on the board to find out how many commercial cattle producers use AI. I would expect it to be around maybe 10%, but it could be less. Based on what I have seen, that sure isn't a KY problem. In fact, I don't think most people would see that as a problem at all. There are plenty of live bulls with good genetics.

You said you can't sell bulls in your county. Why is that? Have you identified what you are doing wrong? Have you identified why the local cattle producers are buying the "wrong" genetics from someone else?

If the average herd size in Kentucky is 15-30 cows, why would AI be so complicated? Sync them all, call the AI tech and just do it. Then turn them out with a bull a few weeks later.

I haven't sold bulls in my county because the majority of people here are looking for bulls that are in the $1k-1500 range. I won't sell my bulls for that price.

As for my comment about dairy farms extensively using AI, I'm correct on that. I guarantee that there are former dairy farmers that did a ton of AI in their day, and I'm pretty certain they saw milk production rise as a result of better genetics. Yet they don't see any benefit in AI'ng beef cattle?

I don't see how it can pencil out for a herd of 15-30 cows to AI AND have a live bull for clean-up.

If the cows are going to be synced on a fixed time AI, that will require taking at least one day off of work. If we assume a 7 day CO-Synch + CIDR or something with 7 days between runs through the chute, which I am assuming can be scheduled for days that are already off work (weekends if you get them off). If just one day off work is required, what is that, another $200 (assuming $25 an hour at 8 hours) you have to account for in the cost to AI. If you had to take all three days off for each run through the chute, that is $600 in lost work income. That will surely push AI into a "no go" for most people. Unless you can just hire the AI tech to come out and round up the cows and run them through the chute for you. Of course, I wouldn't expect that to be a free service either. I am making many assumptions, just to make the point that there are many considerations to doing AI if you are just a part time hobby farmer. It sure isn't something I would expect most beef producers to be able to make work.

I was not disagreeing that dairy farms use/used AI extensively. AI and dairy cows go together fairly easily. The cows are already being brought into the barn twice a day for milking. I don't know of anyone who runs their beef cows in the barn twice a day, except maybe during calving in the north.

It sounds like there is a market in the area for $1,000-$1,500 bulls. Considering 500 lb feeder bulls are topping out around $750 at the sale barn right now, I think a savy cattleman can see the opportunity. Let's say some of these better managed commercial operations with 20 cows started doing 100% AI. They could breed their cows to a proven AI bull. Let's say they have 19 calves (1 loss at birth or during pregnancy). They need to keep another 1-2 heifers for replacements. Let's say they are left with 9 bulls and 7 heifers to sell. For the bulls, the producer could make an EXTRA $2,250 total a year selling bulls at weaning for breeding rather than at the sale barn. For the heifers, let's assume $200 over the sale barn price for AI bred heifers at weaning (assuming around 500 lbs). What is that, an EXTRA $3,500 to $8,000 a year in farm income. While that won't wow everyone, it will easily pay for the extra hassle of doing AI. It seems like a win - win. They will be selling better genetics to "make Kentucky cattle great again". They would be providing a very affordable live bull. They would be putting some extra money in their own pocket. These won't be registered bulls. No papers. They could easily be Hoover Dam or SAV America sons! It would only take maybe 10% of the commercial operations to do 100% AI to take care of the other 90% of commercial operations breeding stock needs. What do you think Mr Branded? Is that the genetic improvement you were talking about that we need in the state? I can see the above scenario working out. I might even participate!

 

[True Grit Farms]

How would a South Georgia bull adapt to KY fescue?

I honestly don't know but there's fescue at Clemson and they feed fescue hay. My guess is start a young bull slow and they'll be just fine. Good cattle are shipped all over the country without any real problems when done the right way.

 

[CattleMan1920]

How would a South Georgia bull adapt to KY fescue?

I honestly don't know but there's fescue at Clemson and they feed fescue hay. My guess is start a young bull slow and they'll be just fine. Good cattle are shipped all over the country without any real problems when done the right way.

TT, you are correct with what you said above. I've never had fescue issues with bulls that were developed from calves out here, even AI sons. We make sure that we have the Ag Land Gro Tec Fescue 7 out in the mineral feeders and all is good with the fescue.

 

[Ebenezer]

How would a South Georgia bull adapt to KY fescue?

I honestly don't know but there's fescue at Clemson and they feed fescue hay. My guess is start a young bull slow and they'll be just fine. Good cattle are shipped all over the country without any real problems when done the right way.

Some will go as far as to die when put on fescue. Not all genetics are "fescue genetics". Been there, done that. Tippy toe due to sore feet, tails fall off, hide in the shade, pant and slobber, lose weight, don't breed... Know your genetics.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Never had that happen with our cattle, and we have a lot of fescue.

That mineral I mentioned will go a long ways to fix fescue issues.

Would you please share some photos of the situations you described?

 

[Ebenezer]

Never had that happen with our cattle, and we have a lot of fescue.

That mineral I mentioned will go a long ways to fix fescue issues.

Would you please share some photos of the situations you described?

No. Just read the literature for all of the new fescues and search for the research that has gone on for 30+ years. Mineral helps but is not a cure all by a long shot.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Has the "Thanks/Like" button been disabled on this thread?

 

[Nesikep]

Here's my take on Kentucky cattle.. It's getting screwed by a well intentioned gov't program.
In the name of improving the commercial herds with a program (What's it called CAIP or something) where the gov't subsidizes registered animals, suddenly anything with papers is worth more, suddenly the market is all over a bunch of stuff that probably should have been nutted.. Maybe the commercial sector benefited from the added quality but I'm sure there are a bunch of unscrupulous breeders out there that'll sell anything, present company excluded.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Here's my take on Kentucky cattle.. It's getting screwed by a well intentioned gov't program.
In the name of improving the commercial herds with a program (What's it called CAIP or something) where the gov't subsidizes registered animals, suddenly anything with papers is worth more, suddenly the market is all over a bunch of stuff that probably should have been nutted.. Maybe the commercial sector benefited from the added quality but I'm sure there are a bunch of unscrupulous breeders out there that'll sell anything, present company excluded.

Not even close Nesi. The tobacco money can also be used on infrastrucure, water consevation, fencing etc... and I'm going to flat out tell you that the pictures being painted here of KY cattle are gross exaggerations.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I'll also add that when using CAIP funds you must use them to buy registered stock from a reputable program.

 

[Nesikep]

I'll also add that when using CAIP funds you must use them to buy registered stock from a reputable program.

I wasn't aware of the other aspects of the program.

Is the "reputable" part really a requirement?

 

[True Grit Farms]

I'll also add that when using CAIP funds you must use them to buy registered stock from a reputable program.

I wasn't aware of the other aspects of the program.

Is the "reputable" part really a requirement?

There's not much reputable when it comes to getting free money. There's folks that get all kinds of cost share money for cattle up grades that sell the cows and the property in 5 years. They get money till the well starts to run dry and then they cut and run.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I'll also add that when using CAIP funds you must use them to buy registered stock from a reputable program.

I wasn't aware of the other aspects of the program.

Is the "reputable" part really a requirement?

For me it would be.

 

[Blue Dawg]

CAIP is not government money, it is monies that was recovered on behalf of the tobacco producer. You basically have to be a tobacco producer or direct descendant in order to qualify.

 

[Blue Dawg]

I'll also add that when using CAIP funds you must use them to buy registered stock from a reputable program.

I wasn't aware of the other aspects of the program.

Is the "reputable" part really a requirement?

There's not much reputable when it comes to getting free money. There's folks that get all kinds of cost share money for cattle up grades that sell the cows and the property in 5 years. They get money till the well starts to run dry and then they cut and run.

I would like to think that someone made money when the cows and property was sold the first time. Should be equity in the cows and property after five years, that's a few $ moving around and I don't see a problem.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

CAIP is not government money, it is monies that was recovered on behalf of the tobacco producer. You basically have to be a tobacco producer or direct descendant in order to qualify.

You sure know a lot about the program for a guy who isn't into cattle or farming.

 

[Blue Dawg]

Sorry, you asked about my operation, I don't consider what I do now an operation.