Make Kentucky Cattle Great Again?

[kenny thomas]

So if we had a program like Canada with everything electronically tagged we wouldn't need health paperwork?

 

[Bright Raven]

So if we had a program like Canada with everything electronically tagged we wouldn't need health paperwork?

I don't know much about the Canadian system.

The point is this. The folks who designed that paperwork were probably epidemiologists. Professionals who track disease pathways. They know you cannot look at an animal and determine if it is carrying a pathogen. But what you can do is track the disease. If a cow goes from Virginia to Nebraska and goes down with brucellosis at least you have a means to track the source.

 

[kenny thomas]

So if we had a program like Canada with everything electronically tagged we wouldn't need health paperwork?

I don't know much about the Canadian system.

The point is this. The folks who designed that paperwork were probably epidemiologists. Professionals who track disease pathways. They know you cannot look at an animal and determine if it is carrying a pathogen. But what you can do is track the disease. If a cow goes from Virginia to Nebraska and goes down with brucellosis at least you have a means to track the source.

Good point, so it should be called tracking papers instead of health papers.

 

[Bright Raven]

So if we had a program like Canada with everything electronically tagged we wouldn't need health paperwork?

I don't know much about the Canadian system.

The point is this. The folks who designed that paperwork were probably epidemiologists. Professionals who track disease pathways. They know you cannot look at an animal and determine if it is carrying a pathogen. But what you can do is track the disease. If a cow goes from Virginia to Nebraska and goes down with brucellosis at least you have a means to track the source.

Good point, so it should be called tracking papers instead of health papers.

The official title is Certificate of Veterinarian Inspection.

 

[kenny thomas]

be nice Kenny, you're makimg flounders point seem credible.

I have been very nice.
But this goes on every day. It's nothing new and I'm betting it hasn't stopped the first load from leaving KY or anywhere else in the east.

 

[Bright Raven]

be nice Kenny, you're makimg flounders point seem credible.

I have been very nice.
But this goes on every day. It's nothing new and I'm betting it hasn't stopped the first load from leaving KY or anywhere else in the east.

Kenny. I suspect that there are levels of offense involved when comparing this case to what goes on other places. Based on experience, this case was prosecuted because of the fact that Dr. Moran grossly failed to make any effort to perform the service he was accredited to perform. You can bet your farm, that he has lost his accreditation. I doubt he was even in Lexington when these 60,000 cows were hauled out.

 

[cbcr]

One problem with what the government proposes as the ADT act requires a producer to have a premise ID. But may producers do not want any government involvement. Many think that with this premise ID number is opens up another can of issues. With the Freedom of Information Act, people can get your information, another is that the government can see what the actual inventory is of your animals. These are two of the biggest and primary concerns that producers have.

While the 15 digit tags that start with 840 is what is being pushed as an official id number, there is an exclusion that for cattle management purposes that that start with a 900 series number can be used and these tags DO NOT require a premise ID

While the 840 number is the official code number for the USA, the 900 series numbers that many manufactures produce are also for the USA only.

 

[Bright Raven]

One problem with what the government proposes as the ADT act requires a producer to have a premise ID. But may producers do not want any government involvement. Many think that with this premise ID number is opens up another can of issues. With the Freedom of Information Act, people can get your information, another is that the government can see what the actual inventory is of your animals. These are two of the biggest and primary concerns that producers have.

While the 15 digit tags that start with 840 is what is being pushed as an official id number, there is an exclusion that for cattle management purposes that that start with a 900 series number can be used and these tags DO NOT require a premise ID

While the 840 number is the official code number for the USA, the 900 series numbers that many manufactures produce are also for the USA only.

Regarding the 15 digit tags? It has not been implemented to my knowledge. What is the status?

 

[CattleMan1920]

You guys have had quite a lively conversation about transporting cattle, however, let me get back to my original gripe. Too many people think that regulation is a bad thing, they think it takes away our freedoms and such. I for one like to have at least some assurances that my food is safe to eat, my water is safe to drink, etc.

Take our current legislation in Kentucky, right now our waterways being polluted. Kentucky has amazing creeks, rivers, lakes, but we have a couple of politicians that see them as a joke. I absolutely assure you that they would never drink out of the tap in some areas of Eastern Kentucky, but they sure don't have an issue with polluting them. Boil that down, and it means "we don't care about poor people, what they drink doesn't matter" Both politicians are far removed from the areas that they have no problem seeing polluted.

There are farmers in our area that would have no problem at all pumping tons of crap into the waterways, their mentality is that it just all washes away somewhere, and takes care of itself somehow. Well it doesn't folks.

If sick cattle make it into the food chain thanks to some good ole boys and a nefarious vet who needed to make a little bit of spending cash, that's a big problem. As Ron said, the inconvenience of "papers" is there for a reason, it's so that when a sick carrier infects the system, it can be found quickly. What the heck is wrong with that thinking?

Lexington Kentucky has a MASSIVE outbreak of hepatitis right now, the health department apparently is trying to get it under control, but it's spreading to cities outside of Lexington, such as Mt. Sterling. Should they ignore, or take kickbacks from restaurant inspectors to look the other way? Imagine this scenario:

You go into a restaurant, you have a meal, after that meal the waiter smiles and says "did you enjoy your meal?" You say "Yes", they then say "well I must tell you, I have hepatitis and I handled all your food without gloves, and your utensils, which by the way were washed only by dipping them in cold water in a dirty sink, oh by the way, the beef you consumed was diseased, not sure with what, but it was laying dead in the feedlot when it was slaughtered days after it died, lastly the water you drank, it came from a creek downstream from a strip mining operation, Thank you and enjoy your day"

I think it's safe to say that you would be ready to kill someone, but the scenario I stated above is not far fetched if you pull all regulations and just go on "good faith" It's already a monumental task to protect the food and water supply, without having people like the vet and the cattle company making it all the more harder.

If anyone on here disagrees, think about the dinner scenario I mentioned above.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Dr Moran's only crime was getting caught.

 

[True Grit Farms]

You guys have had quite a lively conversation about transporting cattle, however, let me get back to my original gripe. Too many people think that regulation is a bad thing, they think it takes away our freedoms and such. I for one like to have at least some assurances that my food is safe to eat, my water is safe to drink, etc.

Take Mitch McConnell or Andy Barr for example, according to legislation they approved, they have no issues with our waterways being polluted. Kentucky has amazing creeks, rivers, lakes, but we have a couple of politicians that see them as a joke. I absolutely assure you that Mitch or Andy would never drink out of the tap in some areas of Eastern Kentucky, but they sure don't have an issue with polluting them. Boil that down, and it means "we don't care about poor people, what they drink doesn't matter" Both politicians are far removed from the areas that they have no problem seeing polluted.

There are farmers in our area that would have no problem at all pumping tons of crap into the waterways, their mentality is that it just all washes away somewhere, and takes care of itself somehow. Well it doesn't folks.

If sick cattle make it into the food chain thanks to some good ole boys and a nefarious vet who needed to make a little bit of spending cash, that's a big problem. As Ron said, the inconvenience of "papers" is there for a reason, it's so that when a sick carrier infects the system, it can be found quickly. What the heck is wrong with that thinking?

Lexington Kentucky has a MASSIVE outbreak of hepatitis right now, the health department apparently is trying to get it under control, but it's spreading to cities outside of Lexington, such as Mt. Sterling. Should they ignore, or take kickbacks from restaurant inspectors to look the other way? Imagine this scenario:

You go into a restaurant, you have a meal, after that meal the waiter smiles and says "did you enjoy your meal?" You say "Yes", they then say "well I must tell you, I have hepatitis and I handled all your food without gloves, and your utensils, which by the way were washed only by dipping them in cold water in a dirty sink, oh by the way, the beef you consumed was diseased, not sure with what, but it was laying dead in the feedlot when it was slaughtered days after it died, lastly the water you drank, it came from a creek downstream from a strip mining operation, Thank you and enjoy your day"

I think it's safe to say that you would be ready to kill someone, but the scenario I stated above is not far fetched if you pull all regulations and just go on "good faith" It's already a monumental task to protect the food and water supply, without having people like the vet and the cattle company making it all the more harder.

If anyone on here disagrees, think about the dinner scenario I mentioned above.

Sounds like someone else thinks the government can protect and provide for them. How many people got sick and died from tobacco use in this country? Tobacco was one of the most highly regulated crops in the history of the US of A.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Dr Moran's only crime was getting caught.

Perhaps we need more criminals in the cattle business? Maybe cattle can be bought with counterfeit bills? It ain't wrong if you don't get caught right? Hey, what about cattle rustlers, if they don't get caught stealing cattle then those cattle must be theirs.....that seems fair....

 

[Bright Raven]

You guys have had quite a lively conversation about transporting cattle, however, let me get back to my original gripe. Too many people think that regulation is a bad thing, they think it takes away our freedoms and such. I for one like to have at least some assurances that my food is safe to eat, my water is safe to drink, etc.

Take Mitch McConnell or Andy Barr for example, according to legislation they approved, they have no issues with our waterways being polluted. Kentucky has amazing creeks, rivers, lakes, but we have a couple of politicians that see them as a joke. I absolutely assure you that Mitch or Andy would never drink out of the tap in some areas of Eastern Kentucky, but they sure don't have an issue with polluting them. Boil that down, and it means "we don't care about poor people, what they drink doesn't matter" Both politicians are far removed from the areas that they have no problem seeing polluted.

There are farmers in our area that would have no problem at all pumping tons of crap into the waterways, their mentality is that it just all washes away somewhere, and takes care of itself somehow. Well it doesn't folks.

If sick cattle make it into the food chain thanks to some good ole boys and a nefarious vet who needed to make a little bit of spending cash, that's a big problem. As Ron said, the inconvenience of "papers" is there for a reason, it's so that when a sick carrier infects the system, it can be found quickly. What the heck is wrong with that thinking?

Lexington Kentucky has a MASSIVE outbreak of hepatitis right now, the health department apparently is trying to get it under control, but it's spreading to cities outside of Lexington, such as Mt. Sterling. Should they ignore, or take kickbacks from restaurant inspectors to look the other way? Imagine this scenario:

You go into a restaurant, you have a meal, after that meal the waiter smiles and says "did you enjoy your meal?" You say "Yes", they then say "well I must tell you, I have hepatitis and I handled all your food without gloves, and your utensils, which by the way were washed only by dipping them in cold water in a dirty sink, oh by the way, the beef you consumed was diseased, not sure with what, but it was laying dead in the feedlot when it was slaughtered days after it died, lastly the water you drank, it came from a creek downstream from a strip mining operation, Thank you and enjoy your day"

I think it's safe to say that you would be ready to kill someone, but the scenario I stated above is not far fetched if you pull all regulations and just go on "good faith" It's already a monumental task to protect the food and water supply, without having people like the vet and the cattle company making it all the more harder.

If anyone on here disagrees, think about the dinner scenario I mentioned above.

Sounds like someone else thinks the government can protect and provide for them. How many people got sick and died from tobacco use in this country? Tobacco was one of the most highly regulated crops in the history of the US of A.

Yes. It was regulated and the prices were supported by government buyers. Each farm had an acreage or poundage allotment. It probably killed or handicapped more people than any other practice I can think of.

 

[CattleMan1920]

You guys have had quite a lively conversation about transporting cattle, however, let me get back to my original gripe. Too many people think that regulation is a bad thing, they think it takes away our freedoms and such. I for one like to have at least some assurances that my food is safe to eat, my water is safe to drink, etc.

Take Mitch McConnell or Andy Barr for example, according to legislation they approved, they have no issues with our waterways being polluted. Kentucky has amazing creeks, rivers, lakes, but we have a couple of politicians that see them as a joke. I absolutely assure you that Mitch or Andy would never drink out of the tap in some areas of Eastern Kentucky, but they sure don't have an issue with polluting them. Boil that down, and it means "we don't care about poor people, what they drink doesn't matter" Both politicians are far removed from the areas that they have no problem seeing polluted.

There are farmers in our area that would have no problem at all pumping tons of crap into the waterways, their mentality is that it just all washes away somewhere, and takes care of itself somehow. Well it doesn't folks.

If sick cattle make it into the food chain thanks to some good ole boys and a nefarious vet who needed to make a little bit of spending cash, that's a big problem. As Ron said, the inconvenience of "papers" is there for a reason, it's so that when a sick carrier infects the system, it can be found quickly. What the heck is wrong with that thinking?

Lexington Kentucky has a MASSIVE outbreak of hepatitis right now, the health department apparently is trying to get it under control, but it's spreading to cities outside of Lexington, such as Mt. Sterling. Should they ignore, or take kickbacks from restaurant inspectors to look the other way? Imagine this scenario:

You go into a restaurant, you have a meal, after that meal the waiter smiles and says "did you enjoy your meal?" You say "Yes", they then say "well I must tell you, I have hepatitis and I handled all your food without gloves, and your utensils, which by the way were washed only by dipping them in cold water in a dirty sink, oh by the way, the beef you consumed was diseased, not sure with what, but it was laying dead in the feedlot when it was slaughtered days after it died, lastly the water you drank, it came from a creek downstream from a strip mining operation, Thank you and enjoy your day"

I think it's safe to say that you would be ready to kill someone, but the scenario I stated above is not far fetched if you pull all regulations and just go on "good faith" It's already a monumental task to protect the food and water supply, without having people like the vet and the cattle company making it all the more harder.

If anyone on here disagrees, think about the dinner scenario I mentioned above.

Sounds like someone else thinks the government can protect and provide for them. How many people got sick and died from tobacco use in this country? Tobacco was one of the most highly regulated crops in the history of the US of A.

Maybe you are right True Grit, maybe I should walk back my post and say this instead "if you have lots of money, don't worry, you can install a $10k Rainsoft filter in your home, buy all your groceries at Whole Foods, and the "little people"? well, they can figure things out some way, they always do". "Why do I care about what everyone else eats" can be the mantra "I'm so rich I order Creekstone or CAB prime steaks delivered to my doorstep, all my groceries are certified organic, and my personal chef prepares everything"

Most of the country doesn't live like the statement above, so they have to go on trust that something is being done to protect them. I'm not advocating the Government intervenes in every aspect of your life, but if cattle producers made sure that their cattle were healthy when they brought them to market, there probably wouldn't be such a focus on this topic. Your business is your business, but I won't protect the idea of selling sick cattle with fake health certs. I'm not so down and out I would use my hard earned vet license to sell blank certs. The vet in question knows ET, and is apparently pretty good at it, you mean to tell me that he couldn't have earned the same amount of money doing top vet work that he did lying about sick cattle? Cmon man!!!!

 

[True Grit Farms]

Dr Moran's only crime was getting caught.

Perhaps we need more criminals in the cattle business? Maybe cattle can be bought with counterfeit bills? It ain't wrong if you don't get caught right? Hey, what about cattle rustlers, if they don't get caught stealing cattle then those cattle must be theirs.....that seems fair....

Yep, I'm here from the government to help you. Health papers are a farce and just another government infringement on our lives. This whole thread proves it, no one got sick or died off any of the cattle that were transported from Kentucky. Someone somewhere got screwed and wasn't man enough to fix the problem on their own. It's very simple and should be reciprocal, if you screw me I'm going to mess you up, unless you don't make it right. And I sure don't need any help from the government.

 

[True Grit Farms]

You guys have had quite a lively conversation about transporting cattle, however, let me get back to my original gripe. Too many people think that regulation is a bad thing, they think it takes away our freedoms and such. I for one like to have at least some assurances that my food is safe to eat, my water is safe to drink, etc.

Take Mitch McConnell or Andy Barr for example, according to legislation they approved, they have no issues with our waterways being polluted. Kentucky has amazing creeks, rivers, lakes, but we have a couple of politicians that see them as a joke. I absolutely assure you that Mitch or Andy would never drink out of the tap in some areas of Eastern Kentucky, but they sure don't have an issue with polluting them. Boil that down, and it means "we don't care about poor people, what they drink doesn't matter" Both politicians are far removed from the areas that they have no problem seeing polluted.

There are farmers in our area that would have no problem at all pumping tons of crap into the waterways, their mentality is that it just all washes away somewhere, and takes care of itself somehow. Well it doesn't folks.

If sick cattle make it into the food chain thanks to some good ole boys and a nefarious vet who needed to make a little bit of spending cash, that's a big problem. As Ron said, the inconvenience of "papers" is there for a reason, it's so that when a sick carrier infects the system, it can be found quickly. What the heck is wrong with that thinking?

Lexington Kentucky has a MASSIVE outbreak of hepatitis right now, the health department apparently is trying to get it under control, but it's spreading to cities outside of Lexington, such as Mt. Sterling. Should they ignore, or take kickbacks from restaurant inspectors to look the other way? Imagine this scenario:

You go into a restaurant, you have a meal, after that meal the waiter smiles and says "did you enjoy your meal?" You say "Yes", they then say "well I must tell you, I have hepatitis and I handled all your food without gloves, and your utensils, which by the way were washed only by dipping them in cold water in a dirty sink, oh by the way, the beef you consumed was diseased, not sure with what, but it was laying dead in the feedlot when it was slaughtered days after it died, lastly the water you drank, it came from a creek downstream from a strip mining operation, Thank you and enjoy your day"

I think it's safe to say that you would be ready to kill someone, but the scenario I stated above is not far fetched if you pull all regulations and just go on "good faith" It's already a monumental task to protect the food and water supply, without having people like the vet and the cattle company making it all the more harder.

If anyone on here disagrees, think about the dinner scenario I mentioned above.

Sounds like someone else thinks the government can protect and provide for them. How many people got sick and died from tobacco use in this country? Tobacco was one of the most highly regulated crops in the history of the US of A.

Maybe you are right True Grit, maybe I should walk back my post and say this instead "if you have lots of money, don't worry, you can install a $10k Rainsoft filter in your home, buy all your groceries at Whole Foods, and the "little people"? well, they can figure things out some way, they always do". "Why do I care about what everyone else eats" can be the mantra "I'm so rich I order Creekstone or CAB prime steaks delivered to my doorstep, all my groceries are certified organic, and my personal chef prepares everything"

Most of the country doesn't live like the statement above, so they have to go on trust that something is being done to protect them. I'm not advocating the Government intervenes in every aspect of your life, but if cattle producers made sure that their cattle were healthy when they brought them to market, there probably wouldn't be such a focus on this topic. Your business is your business, but I won't protect the idea of selling sick cattle with fake health certs. I'm not so down and out I would use my hard earned vet license to sell blank certs. The vet in question knows ET, and is apparently pretty good at it, you mean to tell me that he couldn't have earned the same amount of money doing top vet work that he did lying about sick cattle? Cmon man!!!!

Sick cattle? I've read everything I can find on the Internet about Dr Moran and his problem which should be problems by the way. I have seen NO where that the cattle were sick? Do you just make stuff up as you go along?

 

[CattleMan1920]

Sounds like someone else thinks the government can protect and provide for them. How many people got sick and died from tobacco use in this country? Tobacco was one of the most highly regulated crops in the history of the US of A.

Maybe you are right True Grit, maybe I should walk back my post and say this instead "if you have lots of money, don't worry, you can install a $10k Rainsoft filter in your home, buy all your groceries at Whole Foods, and the "little people"? well, they can figure things out some way, they always do". "Why do I care about what everyone else eats" can be the mantra "I'm so rich I order Creekstone or CAB prime steaks delivered to my doorstep, all my groceries are certified organic, and my personal chef prepares everything"

Most of the country doesn't live like the statement above, so they have to go on trust that something is being done to protect them. I'm not advocating the Government intervenes in every aspect of your life, but if cattle producers made sure that their cattle were healthy when they brought them to market, there probably wouldn't be such a focus on this topic. Your business is your business, but I won't protect the idea of selling sick cattle with fake health certs. I'm not so down and out I would use my hard earned vet license to sell blank certs. The vet in question knows ET, and is apparently pretty good at it, you mean to tell me that he couldn't have earned the same amount of money doing top vet work that he did lying about sick cattle? Cmon man!!!!

Sick cattle? I've read everything I can find on the Internet about Dr Moran and his problem which should be problems by the way. I have seen NO where that the cattle were sick? Do you just make stuff up as you go along?

So what you are saying is this, if I have it correct. He provided blank, "look the other way" certs, in exchange for money, and that's ok with you? Obviously the cattle needed someone to look the other way or they wouldn't have made it out of state. Like I said before, let's suppose a vet gave the seller of bull that you just purchased a blank form so that the seller could write in that the bull was virile and had passed a BSE when in fact the bull was sterile and non-performing, would you be ok with that? It's no different than what went on in the article. It's very simple, He used his vet license to sell blank certs. EASY MONEY, until you get caught, which he did. I believe the Gov sent a clear message to people that want to operate with fuzzy ethics in the cattle business.

Do you know what happened to docs that wrote scripts for oxy for a little bit of cash? They went to the gray bar motel.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Dr Moran's only crime was getting caught.

Perhaps we need more criminals in the cattle business? Maybe cattle can be bought with counterfeit bills? It ain't wrong if you don't get caught right? Hey, what about cattle rustlers, if they don't get caught stealing cattle then those cattle must be theirs.....that seems fair....

Yep, I'm here from the government to help you. Health papers are a farce and just another government infringement on our lives. This whole thread proves it, no one got sick or died off any of the cattle that were transported from Kentucky. Someone somewhere got screwed and wasn't man enough to fix the problem on their own. It's very simple and should be reciprocal, if you screw me I'm going to mess you up, unless you don't make it right. And I sure don't need any help from the government.

You mean to tell me that the feedlot operator should have come over to Fleaburg and kicked some butt? We don't have a local tavern here, but I can picture the saloon doors flying open and the parties involved sitting at a card table while the feedlot operator settles the score. This is really humorous.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I don't see anything about sick cattle, are you retracting that statement? A bull that doesn't pass a semen test still makes good hamburger. If I bought a bull from you and he wasn't any good you'd replace him. I sure wouldn't take it up with the vet and expect him to fix your faults. Health papers are just a farce, and you can't deny that. I'm one of the few commercial operations on CT that is in favor of traveling papers and EID tags. Vet health papers don't mean anything, we all know it's impossible to tell if a Bovine will or won't get sick, and it's dang near impossible to tell if one is already sick.
If nothing else I've learned you sure have no idea of what goes on in the cattle business.

 

[Bright Raven]

You guys are shoveling shyt into the tide. The Certificate of Veterinarian Inspection Requirements have already been debated on the floor of the US Congress. For good or worse, we have Title 9 of the Code of Federal Regulations. What good is debating it here. The thread has been good in that it focused on what is required not whether they are right.

Dr. Moran and Eugene Barber got caught in violation and pleaded guilty. Done deal except sentencing.