Make Kentucky Cattle Great Again?

[kenny thomas]

Certificate of Veterinary Inspection (CVI)

When a CVI is required, it must accompany each shipment and list the following information:

Consignor and location from which the animals have been moved;
Name and address of the owner at the time of movement;
Consignee and destination of the animals;
Number of animals covered by the certificate;
Purpose for which the animals are to be moved;
Individual official identification of each test-eligible animal;
Dates and results of the official tests;
Age;
Official calfhood vaccination (OCV) status of each animal (OCV tattoo); and
If required, a permit number issued by the State of destination

Ok, someone in this discussion said they sold at Bluegrass Stockyards. So if one of the buyers had an order for 500-575 lb black steers to be delivered to Nebraska. Since filling that order may mean buying calves from let's say 15 different farms what would the health certificate state?

I thought about that. I bet they list the Stockyards as the Consignor.

It says owner at time of shipping so who owns them if the Nebraska yard pays for them and the buyer only gets a commission for buying?

 

[Bright Raven]

Bright Raven, I'm not trying to be controversial but trying to show that the health certificate may or may not be worth the paper it's written on.

I don't think that. My original question to you was based on your post that implied that the crime committed by Barber and Moran was "routine". I doubt that very much. They conspired to circumvent the law. I don't doubt you at all that most Stockyards do a poor job of the paperwork but I seriously doubt they conspire to defraud the United States as these two did. These guys are going to enjoy a very nice penalty IMO.

 

[Bright Raven]

Ok, someone in this discussion said they sold at Bluegrass Stockyards. So if one of the buyers had an order for 500-575 lb black steers to be delivered to Nebraska. Since filling that order may mean buying calves from let's say 15 different farms what would the health certificate state?

I thought about that. I bet they list the Stockyards as the Consignor.

It says owner at time of shipping so who owns them if the Nebraska yard pays for them and the buyer only gets a commission for buying?

Just guessing, but the buyer at the Stockyards where they are being moved from.

 

[kenny thomas]

Bright Raven, I'm not trying to be controversial but trying to show that the health certificate may or may not be worth the paper it's written on.

I don't think that. My original question to you was based on your post that implied that the crime committed by Barber and Moran was "routine". I doubt that very much. They conspired to circumvent the law. I don't doubt you at all that most Stockyards do a poor job of the paperwork but I seriously doubt they conspire to defraud the United States as these two did. These guys are going to enjoy a very nice penalty IMO.

Please keep up with this case. Its been 4-6 years to get a "deal" made.
Yes I am saying I believe it is routine. But who brought the charges. The United States? What about whoever received the cattle?

 

[Bright Raven]

Bright Raven, I'm not trying to be controversial but trying to show that the health certificate may or may not be worth the paper it's written on.

I don't think that. My original question to you was based on your post that implied that the crime committed by Barber and Moran was "routine". I doubt that very much. They conspired to circumvent the law. I don't doubt you at all that most Stockyards do a poor job of the paperwork but I seriously doubt they conspire to defraud the United States as these two did. These guys are going to enjoy a very nice penalty IMO.

Please keep up with this case. Its been 4-6 years to get a "deal" made.
Yes I am saying I believe it is routine. But who brought the charges. The United States? What about whoever received the cattle?

It's a federal law. The dept of Justice. Not at all unusual to take a few years. They did plead guilty so that helps mitigate their penalty.

 

[bball]

4-6 years old...isnt a good portion of the evidence "expired"? Or "gone"

 

[Bright Raven]

4-6 years old...isnt a good portion of the evidence "expired"? Or "gone"

Not sure what would expire. But both these guys have already entered guilty pleas. The article says the judge is scheduled to sentence, in fact, within a couple weeks.

The evidence would be the stack of signed certificates by the Dr. Moran that he gave to Barber to use as needed. They calculated that 60,000 head were transported using these fraudulent health reports.

 

[bball]

4-6 years old...isnt a good portion of the evidence "expired"? Or "gone"

Not sure what would expire. But both these guys have already entered guilty pleas. The article says the judge is scheduled to sentence, in fact, within a couple weeks.

The cattle.. it was tongue in cheek...matter a fact, those are gone too I bet

 

[Ky hills]

Ok, someone in this discussion said they sold at Bluegrass Stockyards. So if one of the buyers had an order for 500-575 lb black steers to be delivered to Nebraska. Since filling that order may mean buying calves from let's say 15 different farms what would the health certificate state?

I thought about that. I bet they list the Stockyards as the Consignor.

It says owner at time of shipping so who owns them if the Nebraska yard pays for them and the buyer only gets a commission for buying?

Can't say for sure but I think it states on signs in sale arena that the stockyards acts as an agent only between seller and buyer.

 

[Bright Raven]

4-6 years old...isnt a good portion of the evidence "expired"? Or "gone"

Not sure what would expire. But both these guys have already entered guilty pleas. The article says the judge is scheduled to sentence, in fact, within a couple weeks.

The cattle.. it was tongue in cheek...matter a fact, those are gone too I bet

This is a paperwork case. No need for the cow.

 

[Bright Raven]

I thought about that. I bet they list the Stockyards as the Consignor.

It says owner at time of shipping so who owns them if the Nebraska yard pays for them and the buyer only gets a commission for buying?

Can't say for sure but I think it states on signs in sale arena that the stockyards acts as an agent only between seller and buyer.

The agent could still act as the Consignor. As KT said, they probably do not list each producer.

 

[kenny thomas]

Bright Raven, thanks for a civil discussion and we didn't even get it locked. Hahaha
If anyone is interested check out the Cattle Conference topic in the Health and Nutrition section. Things we discussed here are one of the things they are addressing that day.
This is very interesting to me because I can be in either KY or TN hauling cattle in less than 1/2 hour and routinely do to both states.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Don't get defensive. I ask you because in sincerity, you involve yourself far more than I do in the functions of stockyard sales. So relax. You are asking questions back at me rather than answering mine. If you don't know, fine. There is no penalty.

My point is that Dr. Moran was providing Barber with presigned certifications. It was a conspiracy to circumvent the intent of the law thereby defrauding the United States. You seem to think this is routine. I guess you are saying it is.

Sorry if I seemed defensive because that was not my intent. I have seen lots of health papers handed to the truck drivers but never actually read one. I'm just saying dozens of loads leave the east every week heading for the west. Would keep several vets busy certifing their health. Do you know of any vet that specializes in checking health? I dont. If it's actually serious it seems it would be a full time job.

Dr. Stanfield certifies for Maysville. He is my personal vet. He is extremely meticulous. I would bet my life that if he certifies an animal, he has checked that animal. I know him too well. If anything, he goes overboard.

Well Maysville only sold 346 head last week so Dr. Stanfield put in one heck of a day if he checked 50% of the cattle. Common sense isn't very common.

 

[Bright Raven]

Bright Raven, thanks for a civil discussion and we didn't even get it locked. Hahaha
If anyone is interested check out the Cattle Conference topic in the Health and Nutrition section. Things we discussed here are one of the things they are addressing that day.
This is very interesting to me because I can be in either KY or TN hauling cattle in less than 1/2 hour and routinely do to both states.

Thank you. KT.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Bright Raven, thanks for a civil discussion and we didn't even get it locked. Hahaha
If anyone is interested check out the Cattle Conference topic in the Health and Nutrition section. Things we discussed here are one of the things they are addressing that day.
This is very interesting to me because I can be in either KY or TN hauling cattle in less than 1/2 hour and routinely do to both states.

Jail time is going th be hard on your but.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Bright Raven, I'm not trying to be controversial but trying to show that the health certificate may or may not be worth the paper it's written on.

I don't think that. My original question to you was based on your post that implied that the crime committed by Barber and Moran was "routine". I doubt that very much. They conspired to circumvent the law. I don't doubt you at all that most Stockyards do a poor job of the paperwork but I seriously doubt they conspire to defraud the United States as these two did. These guys are going to enjoy a very nice penalty IMO.

I think it is very routine. And I also think it was very intentional. And I think it happens 99% of the time, especially in relation to stockyards, order buyers, and feeder cattle.

Like Grit said earlier. MORE THAN LIKELY, a feedlot got a batch of sick calves, or several, and the 'seller(s)' didn't make it right. So then we have a complaint of some sort that gets the ball rolling. Then it becomes a pi$$ing match and we know how that turned out.

On a side note, I try hard to follow the rules and not kick up any dust. And I've got no intention on changing. But you can bet with 100% certainty, that if I ever get into any trouble resembling fraud or stealing, that it's gonna be for a lot of money. I mean a lot. It won't be for the crumbs involved here. It's gonna be like 18,000,000. I ain't going to the pokey for $18000. I'm too pretty!

I can't believe this vet risked his livelihood for such a small amount of money.

 

[kenny thomas]

Bright Raven, thanks for a civil discussion and we didn't even get it locked. Hahaha
If anyone is interested check out the Cattle Conference topic in the Health and Nutrition section. Things we discussed here are one of the things they are addressing that day.
This is very interesting to me because I can be in either KY or TN hauling cattle in less than 1/2 hour and routinely do to both states.

Jail time is going th be hard on your but.

Pretty sure i can get some health certificates. It's been almost 3 weeks since I have hauled to KY. Lol

 

[Bright Raven]

Bright Raven, I'm not trying to be controversial but trying to show that the health certificate may or may not be worth the paper it's written on.

I don't think that. My original question to you was based on your post that implied that the crime committed by Barber and Moran was "routine". I doubt that very much. They conspired to circumvent the law. I don't doubt you at all that most Stockyards do a poor job of the paperwork but I seriously doubt they conspire to defraud the United States as these two did. These guys are going to enjoy a very nice penalty IMO.

I think it is very routine. And I also think it was very intentional. And I think it happens 99% of the time, especially in relation to stockyards, order buyers, and feeder cattle.

Like Grit said earlier. MORE THAN LIKELY, a feedlot got a batch of sick calves, or several, and the 'seller(s)' didn't make it right. So then we have a complaint of some sort that gets the ball rolling. Then it becomes a pi$$ing match and we know how that turned out.

On a side note, I try hard to follow the rules and not kick up any dust. And I've got no intention on changing. But you can bet with 100% certainty, that if I ever get into any trouble resembling fraud or stealing, that it's gonna be for a lot of money. I mean a lot. It won't be for the crumbs involved here. It's gonna be like 18,000,000. I ain't going to the pokey for $18000. I'm too pretty!

I can't believe this vet risked his livelihood for such a small amount of money.

I was involved in an enforcement action and the subject company of the enforcement action (jokingly) commented right before a meeting that I could enjoy a nice vacation to anywhere I wanted to go if things went according to their wishes. I (jokingly) replied if I ever took a bribe it would be for a lot more than that.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Bright Raven, thanks for a civil discussion and we didn't even get it locked. Hahaha
If anyone is interested check out the Cattle Conference topic in the Health and Nutrition section. Things we discussed here are one of the things they are addressing that day.
This is very interesting to me because I can be in either KY or TN hauling cattle in less than 1/2 hour and routinely do to both states.

Jail time is going th be hard on your but.

Pretty sure i can get some health certificates. It's been almost 3 weeks since I have hauled to KY. Lol

It sure is nice being sorta connected where you can get what you need when you need it. I'm dang sure not risking that by doing or saying something stupid.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I don't think that. My original question to you was based on your post that implied that the crime committed by Barber and Moran was "routine". I doubt that very much. They conspired to circumvent the law. I don't doubt you at all that most Stockyards do a poor job of the paperwork but I seriously doubt they conspire to defraud the United States as these two did. These guys are going to enjoy a very nice penalty IMO.

I think it is very routine. And I also think it was very intentional. And I think it happens 99% of the time, especially in relation to stockyards, order buyers, and feeder cattle.

Like Grit said earlier. MORE THAN LIKELY, a feedlot got a batch of sick calves, or several, and the 'seller(s)' didn't make it right. So then we have a complaint of some sort that gets the ball rolling. Then it becomes a pi$$ing match and we know how that turned out.

On a side note, I try hard to follow the rules and not kick up any dust. And I've got no intention on changing. But you can bet with 100% certainty, that if I ever get into any trouble resembling fraud or stealing, that it's gonna be for a lot of money. I mean a lot. It won't be for the crumbs involved here. It's gonna be like 18,000,000. I ain't going to the pokey for $18000. I'm too pretty!

I can't believe this vet risked his livelihood for such a small amount of money.

I was involved in an enforcement action and the subject company of the enforcement action (jokingly) commented right before a meeting that I could enjoy a nice vacation to anywhere I wanted to go if things went according to their wishes. I (jokingly) replied if I ever took a bribe it would be for a lot more than that.

So how much did you get?