Make Kentucky Cattle Great Again?

[Bright Raven]

Yes the charges are from a few years ago and they are working, will the penalty be fines, prison or both.

My guess is a small fine at the worst. This happens all over. I have seen trucks loaded in VA and stop in TN along the road to get the health certificate before going into KY and further west. This isn't anything new.

You appear to have missed the nature of these charges. The charges are conspiracy to defraud the United States.

Between 2013 and 2015, Moran allegedly falsified 675 certifications for Barber & Sons for the shipment of more than 60,000 cattle across state lines.

Both Eugene Barber and Dr. John Moran have pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States. The judge has yet to sentence them.

Maybe I misunderstood your point: Are you saying that vets routinely falsify health certifications? Are you saying the federal law requiring health certifications for cattle crossing state lines is simply an exercise of falsification of documents? In your words you said, "This happens all over. This isn't anything new." You know far more about these practices than I do. Is the falsification of health certifications a "routine" practice? If so, it needs to be fixed or abolished.

 

[ddd75]

john was my goto vet in the area.. he's a good guy..

 

[JMJ Farms]

Here's cattle coming across the border.
https://youtu.be/WfXssB95_Lg

Looks like a caravan made it through :hide: :lol2:

 

[mwj]

It is truly amazing that producers just scoff at and dismiss breaches in the rules like this case! As soon as they get there breath back they scream about more rules and regulations. Can anyone point out where any part of this story would be beneficial to the producers in that area?

 

[Ky hills]

It is truly amazing that producers just scoff at and dismiss breaches in the rules like this case! As soon as they get there breath back they scream about more rules and regulations. Can anyone point out where any part of this story would be beneficial to the producers in that area?

From my standpoint it is not beneficial, just hoping it doesn't turn out to be detrimental to the producers.

 

[True Grit Farms]

It is truly amazing that producers just scoff at and dismiss breaches in the rules like this case! As soon as they get there breath back they scream about more rules and regulations. Can anyone point out where any part of this story would be beneficial to the producers in that area?

NO, but I can dang sure tell you who's going to end up paying. And it darn sure won't be the barn owner or vet.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Yes the charges are from a few years ago and they are working, will the penalty be fines, prison or both.

My guess is a small fine at the worst. This happens all over. I have seen trucks loaded in VA and stop in TN along the road to get the health certificate before going into KY and further west. This isn't anything new.

You appear to have missed the nature of these charges. The charges are conspiracy to defraud the United States.

Between 2013 and 2015, Moran allegedly falsified 675 certifications for Barber & Sons for the shipment of more than 60,000 cattle across state lines.

Both Eugene Barber and Dr. John Moran have pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States. The judge has yet to sentence them.

Maybe I misunderstood your point: Are you saying that vets routinely falsify health certifications? Are you saying the federal law requiring health certifications for cattle crossing state lines is simply an exercise of falsification of documents? In your words you said, "This happens all over. This isn't anything new." You know far more about these practices than I do. Is the falsification of health certifications a "routine" practice? If so, it needs to be fixed or abolished.

There's nothing to it the government has already dropped some charges. They probably struck a cash deal with the investigator who struck a deal with the prosecutor who told the judge there wasn't enough evidence to fully convict. So everyone decided to go to the Bahamas together to get out of the cold, have some fun and put all this the behind them.

 

[CattleMan1920]

john was my goto vet in the area.. he's a good guy..

I think that I said earlier that he helped out a lot of people in the community and his family are friendly people.

Here is the problem, it does not matter how friendly or helpful a vet is if they are straight up lying about the health of the cattle they examine.

Let me ask the thread this question. Would it be ok if you were sold a bull, and your vet said "this bull is in top condition, he passed the BSE with flying colors" But behind your back, he and the seller of the bull agreed on a side deal with a few dollars exchanged, that he would lie about the virility of the bull? You get a sterile bull and the vet and the seller are on their merry way. Something tells me that the people on this board would be fuming.

So why would it be ok to screw people in other states by selling them sick cattle that will never perform? Do I want that as a hallmark of the Kentucky cattle business? How do you feel about car lots that sell you a vehicle that blows up 50 miles after it leaves the lot, you probably don't have any problem calling them crooks, right?

If your doctor, has a pharma sales rep in the lobby, and he walks in before your appointment, then walks back out a few minutes later with a big smile on his face, and it's now your turn with the doctor, and he prescribes something you don't even need, would you be upset. What if that doctor got some tickets to a U.K. basketball game for prescribing you meds that were not good for you but good for him?

I want people to know that I am acutely aware of the "symbiotic" relationship between the registered seed stock producer and the commercial operation. That is the reason I am bringing this to light. If my clients fail, or get rock bottom prices for their cattle because a few bad apples have made Kentucky look like the "snake oil salesman" of the cattle business, that's not just bad for my client, it's bad for me. I don't know about you, but my operation, and my clients operations succeeding is far more important than "aw shucks, he's a good ole boy, all of em in fact are good ole boys, take it easy on them". Kentucky has some VERY productive land, and it could be used to make A LOT of money in the cattle business, but as long as this Kentucky culture is in place, we will never be seen as anything other than a bunch of ignorant hillbillies with mules, horses, chickens and pigs in grazing with cows in the same lot.

The vets that we use on our operation are Dr. Vice, Dr. Gillum, and Dr. Jones at Fleming County Animal hospital. They are all Auburn grads, and at the top of their game, brilliant vets. Dr. Vice was awarded best vet in the state of KY last year and he is also a pharmacist, at that! If I asked any of the three to lie or fudge documents regarding our cattle, they would turn, walk away, and never come out to our farm ever again.

The vet in the article had a choice, he didn't have to do what he did. We all make mistakes, but he made one that affected a lot of cattle producers in Kentucky whether you want to admit it or not. Around here the Barber family is highly revered. We've done business with them many times over the years. I have a strong opinion on Bluegrass Stockyards, it may be completely wrong, but nevertheless it's my opinion, Kentucky cattle producers work hard to get their animals to market, and for the most part, they get peanuts for them, the owners of the stockyards buy the animals, ship them out of state and clean up. Now I could be dead wrong on this, and hope I am, but I think that the Barbers do EXTREMELY well off the backs of the small producer. Now throw in a very bad image of Kentucky cattle and you have a recipe for most small producers in Kentucky either throwing in the towel or hanging on by their fingernails. If you follow that up the food chain, so to say, it's bad news for seed stock producers here.

We don't even sell bulls in our OWN county, because this attitude of "he's a good ole boy" is everywhere. Our local bankers couldn't give a crap if you are running a top-notch herd, they will, however, lend if you are "good buddies" with the right people AND have a family farm they can snag when you fall on hard times. Thank goodness we don't have to take out loans from them. We once tried to buy land beside us and use some of the cattle as collateral, not a crazy idea, right?, the local banker valued our cows at $500 a piece for purposes of collateral, needless to say we rounded up other financing. No pun intended.

It's going to be interesting to see where the cattle business ends up in Kentucky, especially if a hard recession hits. For the registered producer there are some options, steer everything and sell fancy black steers to Creekstone or some other top outfit, or sell bred, registered replacement heifers via ads in Angus Journal or Angus Beef Bulletin out of state with full health documentation and DNA testing. I already see a lot of farmers around here that subconsciously know that the deck is stacked against them, they are barely hanging on. Things like the article above and a recession might just be the tipping point. I hope that doesn't happen to them, and absolutely don't want to see that happen, but won't be surprised if it does. If you think small things like a few fudged health certificates don't have a big effect, you might see that you are very wrong in time.

 

[CattleMan1920]

My guess is a small fine at the worst. This happens all over. I have seen trucks loaded in VA and stop in TN along the road to get the health certificate before going into KY and further west. This isn't anything new.

You appear to have missed the nature of these charges. The charges are conspiracy to defraud the United States.

Between 2013 and 2015, Moran allegedly falsified 675 certifications for Barber & Sons for the shipment of more than 60,000 cattle across state lines.

Both Eugene Barber and Dr. John Moran have pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States. The judge has yet to sentence them.

Maybe I misunderstood your point: Are you saying that vets routinely falsify health certifications? Are you saying the federal law requiring health certifications for cattle crossing state lines is simply an exercise of falsification of documents? In your words you said, "This happens all over. This isn't anything new." You know far more about these practices than I do. Is the falsification of health certifications a "routine" practice? If so, it needs to be fixed or abolished.

There's nothing to it the government has already dropped some charges. They probably struck a cash deal with the investigator who struck a deal with the prosecutor who told the judge there wasn't enough evidence to fully convict. So everyone decided to go to the Bahamas together to get out of the cold, have some fun and put all this the behind them.

The Barber family could buy a huge chunk of the Bahamas! They have done EXTREMELY WELL over the years in the Kentucky cattle business.

 

[Bright Raven]

Both Eugene Barber and Dr. John Moran conspired to defraud the United States and to circumvent the statute that requires that the health of cattle be certified before hauling them across state lines. It is no doubt being prosecuted as a felony because the article says the penalty could be both a fine and up to 5 years in prison. The venue is federal count. In my opinion, they will not serve time but the penalty will be at least equal to the amount of money that exchanged hands for fraudulent services in addition to a penalty.

Kentucky Hills. I don't think this will have any affect on the producer. I would think the producer would support the intent of the law - to prevent the spread of cattle diseases.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Both Eugene Barber and Dr. John Moran conspired to defraud the United States and to circumvent the statute that requires that the health of cattle be certified before hauling them across state lines. It is no doubt being prosecuted as a felony because the article says the penalty could be both a fine and up to 5 years in prison. The venue is federal count. In my opinion, they will not serve time but the penalty will be at least equal to the amount of money that exchanged hands for fraudulent services in addition to a penalty.

Kentucky Hills. I don't think this will have any affect on the producer. I would think the producer would support the intent of the law - to prevent the spread of cattle diseases.

I don't want to see anything bad happen to John or his family, but he made that call, not me. He decided to go down a different path for a pittance. In Fleming county, people could care less, in fact, if he doesn't serve time, they will cheer that on. As for the Barbers, they will do more than fine. They will continue to profit wildly from your hard work.

Has anyone had experience on here with the Paris Stockyards? I have heard mostly good things about them.

I will say this as well. The facility in Lexington that the Barbers own is one of the VERY BEST if not THE BEST cattle facility in the United States. We have wanted to hold a production sale there, but have not done so yet. I have nothing against the Barber family or their operation, I just want things to be on the up and up so that people around the country want to buy Kentucky cattle, and do so with confidence. Not too much to ask.

 

[Bright Raven]

My guess is a small fine at the worst. This happens all over. I have seen trucks loaded in VA and stop in TN along the road to get the health certificate before going into KY and further west. This isn't anything new.

You appear to have missed the nature of these charges. The charges are conspiracy to defraud the United States.

Between 2013 and 2015, Moran allegedly falsified 675 certifications for Barber & Sons for the shipment of more than 60,000 cattle across state lines.

Both Eugene Barber and Dr. John Moran have pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States. The judge has yet to sentence them.

Maybe I misunderstood your point: Are you saying that vets routinely falsify health certifications? Are you saying the federal law requiring health certifications for cattle crossing state lines is simply an exercise of falsification of documents? In your words you said, "This happens all over. This isn't anything new." You know far more about these practices than I do. Is the falsification of health certifications a "routine" practice? If so, it needs to be fixed or abolished.

There's nothing to it the government has already dropped some charges. They probably struck a cash deal with the investigator who struck a deal with the prosecutor who told the judge there wasn't enough evidence to fully convict. So everyone decided to go to the Bahamas together to get out of the cold, have some fun and put all this the behind them.

Did you read it, Vince? They plead guilty so on the one count they were charged with there is no "not enough evidence to convict" issue to the story.

 

[True Grit Farms]

john was my goto vet in the area.. he's a good guy..

I think that I said earlier that he helped out a lot of people in the community and his family are friendly people.

Here is the problem, it does not matter how friendly or helpful a vet is if they are straight up lying about the health of the cattle they examine.

Let me ask the thread this question. Would it be ok if you were sold a bull, and your vet said "this bull is in top condition, he passed the BSE with flying colors" But behind your back, he and the seller of the bull agreed on a side deal with a few dollars exchanged, that he would lie about the virility of the bull? You get a sterile bull and the vet and the seller are on their merry way. Something tells me that the people on this board would be fuming.

So why would it be ok to screw people in other states by selling them sick cattle that will never perform? Do I want that as a hallmark of the Kentucky cattle business? How do you feel about car lots that sell you a vehicle that blows up 50 miles after it leaves the lot, you probably don't have any problem calling them crooks, right?

If your doctor, has a pharma sales rep in the lobby, and he walks in before your appointment, then walks back out a few minutes later with a big smile on his face, and it's now your turn with the doctor, and he prescribes something you don't even need, would you be upset. What if that doctor got some tickets to a U.K. basketball game for prescribing you meds that were not good for you but good for him?

I want people to know that I am acutely aware of the "symbiotic" relationship between the registered seed stock producer and the commercial operation. That is the reason I am bringing this to light. If my clients fail, or get rock bottom prices for their cattle because a few bad apples have made Kentucky look like the "snake oil salesman" of the cattle business, that's not just bad for my client, it's bad for me. I don't know about you, but my operation, and my clients operations succeeding is far more important than "aw shucks, he's a good ole boy, all of em in fact are good ole boys, take it easy on them". Kentucky has some VERY productive land, and it could be used to make A LOT of money in the cattle business, but as long as this Kentucky culture is in place, we will never be seen as anything other than a bunch of ignorant hillbillies with mules, horses, chickens and pigs in grazing with cows in the same lot.

The vets that we use on our operation are Dr. Vice, Dr. Gillum, and Dr. Jones at Fleming County Animal hospital. They are all Auburn grads, and at the top of their game, brilliant vets. Dr. Vice was awarded best vet in the state of KY last year and he is also a pharmacist, at that! If I asked any of the three to lie or fudge documents regarding our cattle, they would turn, walk away, and never come out to our farm ever again.

The vet in the article had a choice, he didn't have to do what he did. We all make mistakes, but he made one that affected a lot of cattle producers in Kentucky whether you want to admit it or not. Around here the Barber family is highly revered. We've done business with them many times over the years. I have a strong opinion on Bluegrass Stockyards, it may be completely wrong, but nevertheless it's my opinion, Kentucky cattle producers work hard to get their animals to market, and for the most part, they get peanuts for them, the owners of the stockyards buy the animals, ship them out of state and clean up. Now I could be dead wrong on this, and hope I am, but I think that the Barbers do EXTREMELY well off the backs of the small producer. Now throw in a very bad image of Kentucky cattle and you have a recipe for most small producers in Kentucky either throwing in the towel or hanging on by their fingernails. If you follow that up the food chain, so to say, it's bad news for seed stock producers here.

We don't even sell bulls in our OWN county, because this attitude of "he's a good ole boy" is everywhere. Our local bankers couldn't give a crap if you are running a top-notch herd, they will, however, lend if you are "good buddies" with the right people AND have a family farm they can snag when you fall on hard times. Thank goodness we don't have to take out loans from them. We once tried to buy land beside us and use some of the cattle as collateral, not a crazy idea, right?, the local banker valued our cows at $500 a piece for purposes of collateral, needless to say we rounded up other financing. No pun intended.

It's going to be interesting to see where the cattle business ends up in Kentucky, especially if a hard recession hits. For the registered producer there are some options, steer everything and sell fancy black steers to Creekstone or some other top outfit, or sell bred, registered replacement heifers via ads in Angus Journal or Angus Beef Bulletin out of state with full health documentation and DNA testing. I already see a lot of farmers around here that subconsciously know that the deck is stacked against them, they are barely hanging on. Things like the article above and a recession might just be the tipping point. I hope that doesn't happen to them, and absolutely don't want to see that happen, but won't be surprised if it does. If you think small things like a few fudged health certificates don't have a big effect, you might see that you are very wrong in time.

I agree with the majority of what you posted. But I sure don't see where it's beneficial to any part the cattle business. I know someone that ran his mouth about poaching a ranch, and the cowboy's were this and that. Needless to say the poacher got caught and was roughed up a little excessively to be made an example out of. A 9422m shooting FMJ ammo sends a terrible message to a cattle ranch about screwing around with the wrong person and running your mouth. Carry on.

 

[Bright Raven]

Both Eugene Barber and Dr. John Moran conspired to defraud the United States and to circumvent the statute that requires that the health of cattle be certified before hauling them across state lines. It is no doubt being prosecuted as a felony because the article says the penalty could be both a fine and up to 5 years in prison. The venue is federal count. In my opinion, they will not serve time but the penalty will be at least equal to the amount of money that exchanged hands for fraudulent services in addition to a penalty.

Kentucky Hills. I don't think this will have any affect on the producer. I would think the producer would support the intent of the law - to prevent the spread of cattle diseases.

I don't want to see anything bad happen to John or his family, but he made that call, not me. He decided to go down a different path for a pittance. In Fleming county, people could care less, in fact, if he doesn't serve time, they will cheer that on. As for the Barbers, they will do more than fine. They will continue to profit wildly from your hard work.

Has anyone had experience on here with the Paris Stockyards? I have heard mostly good things about them.

I will say this as well. The facility in Lexington that the Barbers own is one of the VERY BEST if not THE BEST cattle facility in the United States. We have wanted to hold a production sale there, but have not done so yet. I have nothing against the Barber family or their operation, I just want things to be on the up and up so that people around the country want to buy Kentucky cattle, and do so with confidence. Not too much to ask.

Paris is where I go. BTW: I would rather shoot my cattle than take them to your town - Flemingsburg. Lol

 

[True Grit Farms]

You appear to have missed the nature of these charges. The charges are conspiracy to defraud the United States.

Between 2013 and 2015, Moran allegedly falsified 675 certifications for Barber & Sons for the shipment of more than 60,000 cattle across state lines.

Both Eugene Barber and Dr. John Moran have pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States. The judge has yet to sentence them.

Maybe I misunderstood your point: Are you saying that vets routinely falsify health certifications? Are you saying the federal law requiring health certifications for cattle crossing state lines is simply an exercise of falsification of documents? In your words you said, "This happens all over. This isn't anything new." You know far more about these practices than I do. Is the falsification of health certifications a "routine" practice? If so, it needs to be fixed or abolished.

There's nothing to it the government has already dropped some charges. They probably struck a cash deal with the investigator who struck a deal with the prosecutor who told the judge there wasn't enough evidence to fully convict. So everyone decided to go to the Bahamas together to get out of the cold, have some fun and put all this the behind them.

Did you read it, Vince? They plead guilty so on the one count they were charged with there is no "not enough evidence to convict" issue to the story.

You know the game better than me. But the fact is, there's been a deal made between the parties. It's very hard to beat the government in a criminal case and impossible to beat the government in a civil case. When your guilty it's cheaper to make a deal, cut your losses and move on.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I'm no stranger to piss...ng people off in my county, but at the end of the day you either speak your mind or accept the status quo, which around here is low end cattle.

If I were a feedlot operation out west I wouldn't touch KY cattle. Hopefully with the series of events, it will dissuade vets and other unscrupulous parties from cheating the system. Which, trust me, will be a good thing for producers. How does anyone figure that healthy cattle will not benefit their bottom line?

I assure you that I know people that would have zero issues at all with sending a sick, diseased animal to slaughter around here and would laugh about it when it lands on your plate. If you are ok with that, then you might have a little Chinese in your blood. Take a look at China's agriculture business and see what kick backs result in. I doubt you are clamoring for a Chinese pork chop or chicken leg.

Or how about pumping water to your faucet that was lightly treated sewage water, but nobody told you. "They will never know, haha!" I think I've made my point.

 

[kenny thomas]

Yes the charges are from a few years ago and they are working, will the penalty be fines, prison or both.

My guess is a small fine at the worst. This happens all over. I have seen trucks loaded in VA and stop in TN along the road to get the health certificate before going into KY and further west. This isn't anything new.

You appear to have missed the nature of these charges. The charges are conspiracy to defraud the United States.

Between 2013 and 2015, Moran allegedly falsified 675 certifications for Barber & Sons for the shipment of more than 60,000 cattle across state lines.

Both Eugene Barber and Dr. John Moran have pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States. The judge has yet to sentence them.

Maybe I misunderstood your point: Are you saying that vets routinely falsify health certifications? Are you saying the federal law requiring health certifications for cattle crossing state lines is simply an exercise of falsification of documents? In your words you said, "This happens all over. This isn't anything new." You know far more about these practices than I do. Is the falsification of health certifications a "routine" practice? If so, it needs to be fixed or abolished.

Do you think the vet comes to the farm or stockyard and walks among the calves before they are shipped? Im not sure what all they certify but i do know many times they never even see the calves. Your very good at figuring out what everything is, much better than I am. Show us what a health certificate states. Does it state that they don't have something like foot and mouth or that they will never get sick again. Somewhere in between I bet.
There is a load here that was sold on Bluegrass video sale and goes out Tuesday from the farm. I'm betting, without knowing for sure, that the vet will not see the calves. But i will find out.

 

[Bright Raven]

My guess is a small fine at the worst. This happens all over. I have seen trucks loaded in VA and stop in TN along the road to get the health certificate before going into KY and further west. This isn't anything new.

You appear to have missed the nature of these charges. The charges are conspiracy to defraud the United States.

Between 2013 and 2015, Moran allegedly falsified 675 certifications for Barber & Sons for the shipment of more than 60,000 cattle across state lines.

Both Eugene Barber and Dr. John Moran have pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States. The judge has yet to sentence them.

Maybe I misunderstood your point: Are you saying that vets routinely falsify health certifications? Are you saying the federal law requiring health certifications for cattle crossing state lines is simply an exercise of falsification of documents? In your words you said, "This happens all over. This isn't anything new." You know far more about these practices than I do. Is the falsification of health certifications a "routine" practice? If so, it needs to be fixed or abolished.

Do you think the vet comes to the farm or stockyard and walks among the calves before they are shipped? Im not sure what all they certify but i do know many times they never even see the calves. Your very good at figuring out what everything is, much better than I am. Show us what a health certificate states. Does it state that they don't have something like foot and mouth or that they will never get sick again. Somewhere in between I bet.
There is a load here that was sold on Bluegrass video sale and goes out Tuesday from the farm. I'm betting, without knowing for sure, that the vet will not see the calves. But i will find out.

Don't get defensive. I ask you because in sincerity, you involve yourself far more than I do in the functions of stockyard sales. So relax. You are asking questions back at me rather than answering mine. If you don't know, fine. There is no penalty.

My point is that Dr. Moran was providing Barber with presigned certifications. It was a conspiracy to circumvent the intent of the law thereby defrauding the United States. You seem to think this is routine. I guess you are saying it is.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I figure I have enough to do already, can't imagine having the time to worry about someone else's business.
Every animal needs an EID tag, tattoo and must be vet check before it's sold, that will really help US out. If we can get rid of half the cows in the US there will be plenty of opportunities for those countries that import beef to the US.

 

[kenny thomas]

You appear to have missed the nature of these charges. The charges are conspiracy to defraud the United States.

Between 2013 and 2015, Moran allegedly falsified 675 certifications for Barber & Sons for the shipment of more than 60,000 cattle across state lines.

Both Eugene Barber and Dr. John Moran have pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States. The judge has yet to sentence them.

Maybe I misunderstood your point: Are you saying that vets routinely falsify health certifications? Are you saying the federal law requiring health certifications for cattle crossing state lines is simply an exercise of falsification of documents? In your words you said, "This happens all over. This isn't anything new." You know far more about these practices than I do. Is the falsification of health certifications a "routine" practice? If so, it needs to be fixed or abolished.

Do you think the vet comes to the farm or stockyard and walks among the calves before they are shipped? Im not sure what all they certify but i do know many times they never even see the calves. Your very good at figuring out what everything is, much better than I am. Show us what a health certificate states. Does it state that they don't have something like foot and mouth or that they will never get sick again. Somewhere in between I bet.
There is a load here that was sold on Bluegrass video sale and goes out Tuesday from the farm. I'm betting, without knowing for sure, that the vet will not see the calves. But i will find out.

Don't get defensive. I ask you because in sincerity, you involve yourself far more than I do in the functions of stockyard sales. So relax. You are asking questions back at me rather than answering mine. If you don't know, fine. There is no penalty.

My point is that Dr. Moran was providing Barber with presigned certifications. It was a conspiracy to circumvent the intent of the law thereby defrauding the United States. You seem to think this is routine. I guess you are saying it is.

Sorry if I seemed defensive because that was not my intent. I have seen lots of health papers handed to the truck drivers but never actually read one. I'm just saying dozens of loads leave the east every week heading for the west. Would keep several vets busy certifing their health. Do you know of any vet that specializes in checking health? I dont. If it's actually serious it seems it would be a full time job.