Long or Thick

[HerefordSire]

Do you prefer cattle that are longer or thicker all other things being equal?

 

[alacattleman]

Do you prefer cattle that are longer or thicker all other things being equal?

to be a purebred breeder you need to think like a commercial cattleman, what they want,,,, "pounds"

 

[HerefordSire]

Do you prefer cattle that are longer or thicker all other things being equal?

to be a purebred breeder you need to think like a commercial cattleman, what they want,,,, "pounds"

You think thick cattle weight more?

You think there is more meat on long cattle that weigh the same as thick cattle?

 

[alacattleman]

Do you prefer cattle that are longer or thicker all other things being equal?

to be a purebred breeder you need to think like a commercial cattleman, what they want,,,, "pounds"

You think thick cattle weight more?

You think there is more meat on long cattle that weigh the same as thick cattle?

why do they dock for larger frame later maturing calves give me a moderate framed meaty calve that will finish out quicker,

 

[HerefordSire]

Longer does not equal larger frame. Frame size is measured vertically and not horizontally. You think maturity is a function of length?

 

[angus9259]

well, the subject header should get quite a few hits anyway

 

[alacattleman]

most longer body ive seen tend too be pencil gutted with no depth, out of proportion

 

[alacattleman]

well, the subject header should get quite a few hits anyway

:cowboy:

 

[HerefordSire]

well, the subject header should get quite a few hits anyway

If the past is any indication of the future, the thread can certainly be deleted. Funny how biased opinions work, especially when referring to CAB and black cattle instead of the truth.

 

[HerefordSire]

most longer body ive seen tend too be pencil gutted with no depth, out of proportion

Most longer ones that I have seen weigh more than the thicker ones. I would rather eat a steak from a long one than a thick one.

 

[alacattleman]

most longer body ive seen tend too be pencil gutted with no depth, out of proportion

Most longer ones that I have seen weigh more than the thicker ones. I would rather eat a steak from a long one than a thick one.

ok,,, i no longer give a dam

 

[EAT BEEF]

most longer body ive seen tend too be pencil gutted with no depth, out of proportion

Most longer ones that I have seen weigh more than the thicker ones. I would rather eat a steak from a long one than a thick one.

so what your trying to tell us is you like tube steak?

 

[KNERSIE]

one word..... balance!

 

[Willow Springs]

Longer does not equal larger frame.

Are you sure? They are very highly correlated.

 

[HerefordSire]

Longer does not equal larger frame.

Are you sure? They are very highly correlated.

Yes, because it is possible for relatively long cattle to have a short frame. I tend to agree with your second statement with several exceptions.

 

[Willow Springs]

I tend to agree with your second statement with several exceptions.

Are these exceptions based on actual stelekal mesurements (hide, muscle, fat off), or visual appraisal? The later lacks a lot of validity. Even live animal measurements are somewhat flawed.

In answer to your first question; I like a balance, so I wouldn't take either. Too much one way or the other can render the animal non-functinal without excess human intervention. We don't get paid enough for any intervention.

 

[HerefordSire]

I tend to agree with your second statement with several exceptions.

Are these exceptions based on actual stelekal mesurements (hide, muscle, fat off), or visual appraisal? The later lacks a lot of validity. Even live animal measurements are somewhat flawed.

In answer to your first question; I like a balance, so I wouldn't take either. Too much one way or the other can render the animal non-functinal without excess human intervention. We don't get paid enough for any intervention.

Strictly visual appraisal. I agree in regards to the validity. I would be interested in some butchers conducting a scientific test.

Experience probably agrees with you in selecting neither as a more balanced approach. But, everything is relative. This means my longest cow (bull) could be the most meat productive, especially since nothing has been proven in regards to length (to my knowledge) with a high degree of accuracy.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

I think dressing weight/percentage would be a better indicator on whether or not the weight from that extra length is useful or not.

 

[Willow Springs]

I would be interested in some butchers conducting a scientific test.

I had a professor in university that did just that. He grew up being taught to judge cattle like most of us did. By the time he had his doctorate he realized a lot of what we had been selecting for was simply our eyes playing tricks with us. He had done visual animal appraisal and cut-outs and realized that the bones were all proportional to each other. A longer bodied animal is generally a larger framed animal. Depth of body (generally created by larger internal organs, more gut fill, internal fat, external fat) and body condition can make an animal appear shorter bodied. An animal is a physical being, which means that it functions according to the laws of physics. If everything is not in the right balance the animal ceases to function at an optimal level. As producers we can create an environment for that animal to produce, but it isn't profitable in todays global market.

 

[HerefordSire]

I would be interested in some butchers conducting a scientific test.

I had a professor in university that did just that. He grew up being taught to judge cattle like most of us did. By the time he had his doctorate he realized a lot of what we had been selecting for was simply our eyes playing tricks with us. He had done visual animal appraisal and cut-outs and realized that the bones were all proportional to each other. A longer bodied animal is generally a larger framed animal. Depth of body (generally created by larger internal organs, more gut fill, internal fat, external fat) and body condition can make an animal appear shorter bodied. An animal is a physical being, which means that it functions according to the laws of physics. If everything is not in the right balance the animal ceases to function at an optimal level. As producers we can create an environment for that animal to produce, but it isn't profitable in todays global market.

A good point you make....

the better performing animal doesn't always equate to the most profitable animal. That is unless you keep good records over the long term because the profit will fluctuate and will eventually reward the best performing animals even though the market may temporarily penalize the best performing animals.