Line breeding

[mbangus]

Looking for peoples option on line breeding on how far to push it ?

 

[DrumRunner728]

I don't believe in it, but a lot of people do. There's an old expression in the horse world (maybe the cow world too) that "if it works it's line breeding, if it doesn't it's incest."

 

[KNERSIE]

Looking for peoples option on line breeding on how far to push it ?

Linebreeding can be a very good tool, if used correctly, but the answer to your question isn't a simple one.

Firstly you need to have a 100% clear picture of exactly what you want to breed as far as phenotype and performance go. If you aren't 100% sure what your ideal looks like don't even try to linebreed.

Then do a thorough study of how genetics and heritibility, especially of the economically important traits work.

Then you need to really research your breed of choice, as far back as there is records, and identify prominent lines and how they were created. Now you need to identify bulls that approximates your ideal. Start with more than one as you are likely to find problems in some of them in the future.

Now its back to research, go as far back as possible on every bull you've identified, see as many realtives, try and find out weaknesses and strengths.

Now you still haven't identified cows to use these sires on, try and select cows that are stronger in the areas the bulls can be improved on. From then the operative word is CULL, CULL and CULL some more!

What I am trying to say is that there is more to linebreeding than just make incestuous matings. If you haven't at the very least gone through all the steps I mentioned your chance of success is very limited. If you have gone through all the steps you'd probably not need to ask the questions you've asked.

How far you can push it will be determined entirely by how well you've planned your matings, how much research has gone into it and most importantly how well you have selected and culled in the process. Its a matter of working towards your idea of perfection and not simply how far I can push my luck.

 

[Bez>]

If it works you are called a genius.

If it fails you are called a fool.

I personally stay away from it because after being in cows all of my life, I do not believe I have the expertise.

Bez>

 

[fourstates]

I heard: If it's done on purpose, it's called linebreeding, by accident, it's called inbreeding.

Father, daughter/ mother,son only share 50% of the same genes. Even siblings unless they are identical twins, still vary genetically. Unless both parents carry certain traits (good or bad) the odds are the mating will not display any problems. If you continue to reduce the gene pool (by continued generational inbreeding) eventually defects will show up. Linebreeding never causes genetic defects, it just increases the odds they will show up.
Culling is the most important factor in trying to get a certain trait to dominate, because you can only manage phenotype (what you see) not genotype (genes carried).

 

[msscamp]

Looking for peoples option on line breeding on how far to push it ?

If it works - it's 'linebreeding', if not - it's 'inbreeding'. I would be very, very careful, because it could very well be a trainwreck waiting to happen.

 

[phillse]

you can mate half siblings or the equivalent perpetually forever. The key is to get rid of the trash that shows up in the first 3-4 generations if you are dealling with a closed herd. The thing you have to remeber with linebreeding, you are encreasing your homozygous factor for many different genes. Some of these genes you want and some are trash that are being masked by a dominant allele. The main thing in linebreeding is to realize there will be some trash animals dispose of them and breed the best to the best pretty much as one should do any way.

The great benifit of linebreeding is that it helps you clean your herd up and get rid of the unwanted traits (when used properly) this in turn means a more uniform herd in terms of size, milk, growth, calving ease etc.

 

[novatech]

I don,t know a thing about it. It has always scared me because of that. I do know that a lot of very good seed stock producers have done this and improved their stock and their breed as well.
Although I plan on staying away from it for now, this is some very good info. Thanks; Knersie, Fourstates, and Phillse.

 

[phillse]

One more thought on Linebreeding.

If you want a more indepth look at line breeding, a book intitled "Principles of Linebreeding" is a good read. It is relatively short, easy to follw and was written by a cattleman. I am not sure if he is still alive or how he is doing but the only place you can get it is from the author himself. He is Jim Lents, a Reg. Hereford breeder and I believe he lives in OK.

This is a good book and will be a benifit for all of you guys with questions about linebreeding. It is much easier to follow and to apply than any genetics class or genetics book you will run across.

 

[Julian]

One more thought on Linebreeding.

If you want a more indepth look at line breeding, a book intitled "Principles of Linebreeding" is a good read. It is relatively short, easy to follw and was written by a cattleman. I am not sure if he is still alive or how he is doing but the only place you can get it is from the author himself. He is Jim Lents, a Reg. Hereford breeder and I believe he lives in OK.

This is a good book and will be a benifit for all of you guys with questions about linebreeding. It is much easier to follow and to apply than any genetics class or genetics book you will run across.

Actually the book is called "The Basis of Linebreeding." I have heard that all available copies have been sold. Perhaops the best way to know for certain is to contact Jim Lents at his home in Indiahoma, Oklahoma. His number should be available at http://www.whitepages.com.
--Julian

P.S. By the way, we linebreed B571 Red Angus,so we believe in the use of linebreeding as a genetic purification tool. Beware of the people that tell you if it works it's called linebreeding and if it doesn't it is called inbreeding. It may be very well that they have already told you all they know on that subject.

 

[KNERSIE]

One more thought on Linebreeding.

If you want a more indepth look at line breeding, a book intitled "Principles of Linebreeding" is a good read. It is relatively short, easy to follw and was written by a cattleman. I am not sure if he is still alive or how he is doing but the only place you can get it is from the author himself. He is Jim Lents, a Reg. Hereford breeder and I believe he lives in OK.

This is a good book and will be a benifit for all of you guys with questions about linebreeding. It is much easier to follow and to apply than any genetics class or genetics book you will run across.

Actually the book is called "The Basis of Linebreeding." I have heard that all available copies have been sold. Perhaops the best way to know for certain is to contact Jim Lents at his home in Indiahoma, Oklahoma. His number should be available at http://www.whitepages.com.
--Julian

P.S. By the way, we linebreed B571 Red Angus,so we believe in the use of linebreeding as a genetic purification tool. Beware of the people that tell you if it works it's called linebreeding and if it doesn't it is called inbreeding. It may be very well that they have already told you all they know on that subject.

I have an older copy of the book and in all honesty I didn't find it easy to follow at all. Most of the text and the diagrams it describes isn't on the same page.

I don't know if the later copies is the same, but I feel a lot more info could have been added to really make it a worthwhile read.

I learnt more practical knowledge from the Anxiety 4th Herdbook that was kindly sent to me by one of the members of this forum, JHambley.

 

[OK Jeanne]

We are breeding this Oct 05 bull to some of his paternal
half sisters - I guess that is linebreeding.

Many of our spring 07 calves have a sire that is also a few
generations back in the pedigree. So far we've had good
luck with it.

 

[Herefords.US]

I can't speak of other breeds, but in Herefords(the horned side), if you look at the history, virtually every animal who has made a significant lasting impact on the breed was the product of linebreeding.

Knersie provided a lot of good advice.

George