Limo, Simmi or Gelbvieh?

[UG]

3way

Is your cousin Jerry Brink?

 

[3waycross]

3way

Is your cousin Jerry Brink?

No his name is actually Gary Cooper.............not the actor. :lol2:

 

[Stocker Steve]

mncowboy,

Though I am not sure about weaning weights, I recently saw a presentation in which data from the Meat Animal Research Center had Charolais with the highest yearling weights. If I remember correctly Angus and Simmental were 2nd, and Gelbvieh was next. Limousin was quite a bit lower in their YWs. Now, that being said, there is a tremendous amount of variability within breeds, and if you prefer Limmys, there are some Limousin bulls that can compete with the other breeds on growth.

Good point on the Char growth, but if they are the framy type then Char X calves get a big discount in our market.
Limi are not noted for their milk, so that can reduce weaning weight if you have Limi cows. I used limi bulls.
My Limi bulls far outgrew angus after weaning so I must not have the Research Center genetics.

 

[Limomike]

Good point on the Char growth, but if they are the framy type then Char X calves get a big discount in our market.
Limi are not noted for their milk, so that can reduce weaning weight if you have Limi cows. I used limi bulls.
My Limi bulls far outgrew angus after weaning so I must not have the Research Center genetics.[/quote]

Agreed. So using those angus cows, with a Limi bull would give you the growth you want.
Also, Wulf cattle up there in Minn, is having their sale March 22nd.

 

[angie1]

I bought, and paid a lot of money for, 2 bred Wulf heifers 7 years ago. They were gorgeous and I was thrilled to have them. One came up open, and they BOTH became completely psychotic the instant the calf from the one hit the ground. They would growl and paw if you walked out in the yard never mind the pasture. Once the bull calf weaned, both of them got shot where they stood and butchered. We kept the bull calf. He did not have a temperament problem in the least, and his calves were meat wagons, but I refused to keep a single one of his daughters.

I would second what someone else said, if you are keeping replacements look to the Simm or Gelbvieh. But I sure can't complain about the terminal calves off the limi bull.

I now open the floor to the lecture on there being nuts in every breed and how much the limi association has done to improve temperament.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

My my them limis are bad. Would not have a cow that didn't put up a fuss about a new calf. Just a helpful hint stay away from some of the Magness lines.

 

[AllForage]

mncowboy,

Though I am not sure about weaning weights, I recently saw a presentation in which data from the Meat Animal Research Center had Charolais with the highest yearling weights. If I remember correctly Angus and Simmental were 2nd, and Gelbvieh was next. Limousin was quite a bit lower in their YWs. Now, that being said, there is a tremendous amount of variability within breeds, and if you prefer Limmys, there are some Limousin bulls that can compete with the other breeds on growth.

Good point on the Char growth, but if they are the framy type then Char X calves get a big discount in our market.
Limi are not noted for their milk, so that can reduce weaning weight if you have Limi cows. I used limi bulls.
My Limi bulls far outgrew angus after weaning so I must not have the Research Center genetics.

I have read that growth is 80% genetics. It's not totally up to the milking ability.

 

[cow pollinater]

I bought, and paid a lot of money for, 2 bred Wulf heifers 7 years ago. They were gorgeous and I was thrilled to have them. One came up open, and they BOTH became completely psychotic the instant the calf from the one hit the ground. They would growl and paw if you walked out in the yard never mind the pasture. Once the bull calf weaned, both of them got shot where they stood and butchered. We kept the bull calf. He did not have a temperament problem in the least, and his calves were meat wagons, but I refused to keep a single one of his daughters.

I would second what someone else said, if you are keeping replacements look to the Simm or Gelbvieh. But I sure can't complain about the terminal calves off the limi bull.

I now open the floor to the lecture on there being nuts in every breed and how much the limi association has done to improve temperament.

If the lims that I had protected their calves like that they could have stayed. Instead they were so goofy they dove off the side of the hill and left new calves that they never came back to. Cows that will fight for thier calf are a must have for some of us.
As far as nuts in every breed, it's true. But there are also gentle ones in every breed, including lims. I've been put over the fence by hereford cows a few times and they really have to make me think they mean it before I start climbing. I thought anything hereford was suposed to be gentle. :???:

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Yep CP there is nuts in all breeds. Some folks just need milk cow tame.

 

[Stocker Steve]

You can sort for docility, and there is an EPD for it, so I don't see where it should to be an issue. Our Limi bulls were milk cow gentle because the breeder selected for it. Our Balancer bull tolerates some handling, and when he has had enough he walks up to you, bellows, and then we usually let him out of the pen. :nod:
I bought 2 limi flex heifers out of a Wulf bloodline. One was a herd quitter, and the other is a top cow. They looked much better than average, and had a 50% retention is typical for me with purchased heifers.
I don't think there is an EPD for mothering, and I have had issues with a lack of this from some dual purpose Continental cows. Things seem to go much easier with some Herf or SH blood in the cow herd. I think GV over Herf or BWF would be the best combination if you retain heifers.

 

[Limomike]

I have read that growth is 80% genetics. It's not totally up to the milking ability.[/quote]

That may be so.. but as I have always said " Big bag... Big calf". In other words.. more milk.. more growth. But, you also have to have the genetics in em to make em grow.
Angie, as far as the full blood limi cows being bad.. dont know about that, because all of my cows are either full-blood angus, or Limflex. Worst temperamented cows I ever had was two tiger striped ones. ONe was worse than the other. Had one run me around my truck three times before I jumped in the back! She didnt even have a calf at that time.. but she could sure put one out each year, that was a dandy.

 

[angie1]

Yep CP there is nuts in all breeds. Some folks just need milk cow tame.

Oh for crying in the night. :roll:

Because I HATE the petty breed bashing that goes on so frequently here, and did not want to be a part of it, I sugar coated how psychotic these animals were, and set myself up for this crap. Now, in an effort to be better understood, let me explain something to you.

They did not so much as calm down, even slightly, in the ENTIRE 6.5 months we let them live after the one calved. For OVER 6 MONTHS they stood at the fence and pawed and snarled and blew snot almost every time someone was out in the yard. They did not eat when people were outside, but followed the movement of the people and paced the fence line. These were animals that I hand fed daily prior to calving. I have been around cattle all of my life, and had never seen anything like it.

That being said, let me say again, that we kept the bull. He never gave us a days worth of trouble, and his calves were enormous at weaning.

 

[UG]

I have read that growth is 80% genetics. It's not totally up to the milking ability.[/quote]


Most studies show that growth heritability is between 30 and 46%

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Well if they were that bad, why did you buy them??

 

[AllForage]

I have read that growth is 80% genetics. It's not totally up to the milking ability.

That may be so.. but as I have always said " Big bag... Big calf". In other words.. more milk.. more growth. But, you also have to have the genetics in em to make em grow.
Angie, as far as the full blood limi cows being bad.. dont know about that, because all of my cows are either full-blood angus, or Limflex. Worst temperamented cows I ever had was two tiger striped ones. ONe was worse than the other. Had one run me around my truck three times before I jumped in the back! She didnt even have a calf at that time.. but she could sure put one out each year, that was a dandy.[/quote]





I guess some would reply with "big bag..... big feed bill or big maintenance or big no breed back"

I had a jersey cow raise up a Herf cross naturally and when he was weaned, the milk fat just melted off and he looked very much like his contemporaries. Guess what, she was drawn down a lot more than the other cows and took a lot more to get her back. She failed to breed back the next year.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

My guess would be that the heifers Angie got from Wulf was not fullbloods. Wulf has been a purebred operation for a long time.

 

[houstoncutter]

I bought, and paid a lot of money for, 2 bred Wulf heifers 7 years ago. They were gorgeous and I was thrilled to have them. One came up open, and they BOTH became completely psychotic the instant the calf from the one hit the ground. They would growl and paw if you walked out in the yard never mind the pasture. Once the bull calf weaned, both of them got shot where they stood and butchered. We kept the bull calf. He did not have a temperament problem in the least, and his calves were meat wagons, but I refused to keep a single one of his daughters.

I would second what someone else said, if you are keeping replacements look to the Simm or Gelbvieh. But I sure can't complain about the terminal calves off the limi bull.

I now open the floor to the lecture on there being nuts in every breed and how much the limi association has done to improve temperament.

Why would you keep a bull out of cattle that you thought had a temperament problem? I personally would rather have a 1300 lb cow blowin snot at me versus a 2200 bull! One can hurt ya, the other can kill ya.

 

[SSGenetics]

I bought, and paid a lot of money for, 2 bred Wulf heifers 7 years ago. They were gorgeous and I was thrilled to have them. One came up open, and they BOTH became completely psychotic the instant the calf from the one hit the ground. They would growl and paw if you walked out in the yard never mind the pasture. Once the bull calf weaned, both of them got shot where they stood and butchered. We kept the bull calf. He did not have a temperament problem in the least, and his calves were meat wagons, but I refused to keep a single one of his daughters.

I would second what someone else said, if you are keeping replacements look to the Simm or Gelbvieh. But I sure can't complain about the terminal calves off the limi bull.

I now open the floor to the lecture on there being nuts in every breed and how much the limi association has done to improve temperament.

One of the more meaningless posts I've read on here.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I think Jim Wulf would have made things right.

 

[angie1]

Well if they were that bad, why did you buy them??
I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not, but I will restate what I have already said:
1. They were built like box cars, and I wanted calves for freezer beef.
2. They were bred when I got them, did not have a calf at side.
3. I was in the pasture with them everyday, they were hand fed daily prior to calving.
4. The day the one calved, it was like a light was switched on both of them.

I think Jim Wulf would have made things right.
An offer was made to replace the 2, which is fair enough, but I would have not taken another one on a dare ~ not then and not now.