Lexington Moving Statues

[Bright Raven]

I didn't want to post on this topic because I consider myself short in the tooth and am by no means a history professor, but the purpose of this forum is to interact and share opinions. So here is my opinion. I was never a slave, nor was anyone in my family a slave or slave owner, so I find it very hard to relate to someones thinking a as to why someone else would or would not do something. All the time I hear people talking about what someone did or didn't do and how they don't agree with it, but to be honest do any of us really know unless we actually went through what their ancestors did. If somebody truly has a strong opinion about something they should stand up and voice that opinion, that is what has made this country what it is. My biggest issue with all this is do the majority of them really have an issue with the removal of the statues or are they just using it to push their agenda? Same with the whites I would bet some of them had never even visited the statues or knew where they were but threw a fit because they were getting moved. What is the scariest to me about the whole situation is the majority of youth today is uneducated and uninformed and they just spew whatever information they hear and don't research to find at least some form of reality. It is a very scary time and I personally do not see it getting any better. Officially off my soap box

I have not been a slave but the repugnant nature of being captured and forced into slavery is not hard to grasp.

In this specific case, there is a rational reason for relocating the statues. I do agree that many people don't care about the statutes until the issue of moving them is raised. Personally, I am no a fan of any type of statue or memorial, Civil War or otherwise.

The relocation of these two statues has overwhelming support locally, it will be interesting if people come in from outside Lexington to protest the relocation. Those are the ones I would agree with you - have an agenda.

 

[ddd75]

USA.. the very best.. the very worst.

come here, we'll change for YOU.


TRANS rights #1

GAY rights #1

BLACK rights #1

LATINO rights (darker tone ) #1 (lighter tone = WHITE!)

WHITE rights .... Last.

 

[skyhightree1]

USA.. the very best.. the very worst.

come here, we'll change for YOU.


TRANS rights #1

GAY rights #1

BLACK rights #1

LATINO rights (darker tone ) #1 (lighter tone = WHITE!)

WHITE rights .... Last.

Hmm... Wheres the native rights at? I don't recall whites adapting to native ways.. I think whites came and forced their "agenda" and made everyone else accept their agenda... Ya it's no fun when the rabbit has the gun...white rights have been going on since hitting this land.

 

[Bright Raven]

USA.. the very best.. the very worst.

come here, we'll change for YOU.


TRANS rights #1

GAY rights #1

BLACK rights #1

LATINO rights (darker tone ) #1 (lighter tone = WHITE!)

WHITE rights .... Last.

Hmm... Wheres the native rights at? I don't recall whites adapting to native ways.. I think whites came and forced their "agenda" and made everyone else accept their agenda... Ya it's no fun when the rabbit has the gun...white rights have been going on since hitting this land.

Good point Sky. I don't feel like my rights are threatened.

 

[Nesikep]

Louis CK has a good piece on this.. some coarse language, but the content is good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CmzT4OV-w0

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I feel threatened every time i turn on the news,and see that fish head launch another missle....

 

[Ky hills]

USA.. the very best.. the very worst.

come here, we'll change for YOU.


TRANS rights #1

GAY rights #1

BLACK rights #1

LATINO rights (darker tone ) #1 (lighter tone = WHITE!)

WHITE rights .... Last.

Hmm... Wheres the native rights at? I don't recall whites adapting to native ways.. I think whites came and forced their "agenda" and made everyone else accept their agenda... Ya it's no fun when the rabbit has the gun...white rights have been going on since hitting this land.

Good point Sky. I don't feel like my rights are threatened.

I agree as well good point. I don't feel my rights are threatened, if things were that bad then I doubt some of my grandparents families would have hidden their true ethnicities. I also haven't seen any evidence of favoritism for our family being that my wife has close Hispanic/Native American ancestry.

 

[Bright Raven]

I feel threatened every time i turn on the news,and see that fish head launch another missle....

North Korea's nuclear program is infiltrated to the extent that we know more about their nuclear capabilities than Kim Jong Un does.

Its like a cat playing with a limbless mouse.

 

[skyhightree1]

Hmm... Wheres the native rights at? I don't recall whites adapting to native ways.. I think whites came and forced their "agenda" and made everyone else accept their agenda... Ya it's no fun when the rabbit has the gun...white rights have been going on since hitting this land.

Good point Sky. I don't feel like my rights are threatened.

I agree as well good point. I don't feel my rights are threatened, if things were that bad then I doubt some of my grandparents families would have hidden their true ethnicities. I also haven't seen any evidence of favoritism for our family being that my wife has close Hispanic/Native American ancestry.

I have no favoritism when its time to pay my taxes that's for darn sure.

 

[Bright Raven]

Louis CK has a good piece on this.. some coarse language, but the content is good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CmzT4OV-w0

He uses humor, However crude, to expose what could be a tough road ahead.

 

[Bestoutwest]

I was never a slave, nor was anyone in my family a slave or slave owner, so I find it very hard to relate to someones thinking a as to why someone else would or would not do something. All the time I hear people talking about what someone did or didn't do and how they don't agree with it, but to be honest do any of us really know unless we actually went through what their ancestors did.

What is the scariest to me about the whole situation is the majority of youth today is uneducated and uninformed and they just spew whatever information they hear and don't research to find at least some form of reality. It is a very scary time and I personally do not see it getting any better. Officially off my soap box

-Think of the worst job you can think of, doing it every day for the rest of your life. All day, every day, for some guy who gets rich off of your labor and you get beaten if you don't do your job well enough. Then, it's discovered that you secretly have a spouse, so they are sold off b/c the "master has to have his rules, right?" And your children are sold to another person, not the same that your spouse went to, so that the point is made with an exclamation point. You have no education, enough food to keep you alive and enough shelter to keep you from dying from the elements. That, in a nutshell, is what slavery was like for most.

-I'm not going to attack the "pushing their agenda" point, Boondocks already did that.

-Disseminating opinions based on lack of information is nothing new. There was a time when people thought blacks were intellectually inferior to whites for a myriad of reasons, that the shape of one's skull could tell you how smart that person was, that God gave the US to whites (manifest destiny), the world was flat, that women voting would ruin society, that Jews were ruining the world. It is nothing new that people go off half-cocked about subjects that they don't know anything about. Heck, I see it on here all the time.

 

[Rafter S]

It was about the 6th grade. Three boys in my class started wearing swastikas. Playing around doing "Hail Hitler" salutes. The word got up to the Principal. The three offenders were sent to the Principals office.

It never meant anything other than being "cool". Unfortunately, some never mature beyond the "cool" stage and you see it manifested in the skinheads.

I can't imagine any 6th graders in our generation thinking the swastikas or hail Hitler was cool. You are only a year or two older than me. We were raise by and around a generation who fought Hitler. Many of us lost uncles and other relatives in that fight. Had three 6th graders done that in my school the principal would have been talking to the other 6th graders who whipped the snot out of them. At that time there was absolutely nothing cool about being or pretending to be a nazi.

Dave,

Northern Kentucky has a very strong German influence. My paternal Grandfather was 100 % German. He married my grandmother in Cincinnati who was also 100 % German. Grandma spoke a lot of German. They were Roman Catholic of Low German order. Dad was the youngest of 11 siblings. When they got together at family reunions, I vividly remember them bragging about if Hitler would have had Petro, he would have won World War II. That German Pride ran deep. Many of the steel and machinist workers in Cincinnati were German. In school, I remember a slight degree of German sentiment. I had it in me too, due to my Dad's influence. If you have not been through North Dakota, you may not know but the Northern European influence is still alive with many German names and even remaining accent.

We have a lot of Germans in Texas too. I'm of 100% German heritage on both sides, both my parents grew up speaking German (although different dialects), and until recent years my church was made up almost exclusively of ethnic Germans. And the German pride runs deep here too, but I've never heard a single one of my relatives, neighbors, etc express any sympathy, support, or admiration for Hitler or anything connected to the Third Reich. A lot of them fought against him in WWII.

 

[Bright Raven]

I can't imagine any 6th graders in our generation thinking the swastikas or hail Hitler was cool. You are only a year or two older than me. We were raise by and around a generation who fought Hitler. Many of us lost uncles and other relatives in that fight. Had three 6th graders done that in my school the principal would have been talking to the other 6th graders who whipped the snot out of them. At that time there was absolutely nothing cool about being or pretending to be a nazi.

Dave,

Northern Kentucky has a very strong German influence. My paternal Grandfather was 100 % German. He married my grandmother in Cincinnati who was also 100 % German. Grandma spoke a lot of German. They were Roman Catholic of Low German order. Dad was the youngest of 11 siblings. When they got together at family reunions, I vividly remember them bragging about if Hitler would have had Petro, he would have won World War II. That German Pride ran deep. Many of the steel and machinist workers in Cincinnati were German. In school, I remember a slight degree of German sentiment. I had it in me too, due to my Dad's influence. If you have not been through North Dakota, you may not know but the Northern European influence is still alive with many German names and even remaining accent.

We have a lot of Germans in Texas too. I'm of 100% German heritage on both sides, both my parents grew up speaking German (although different dialects), and until recent years my church was made up almost exclusively of ethnic Germans. And the German pride runs deep here too, but I've never heard a single one of my relatives, neighbors, etc express any sympathy, support, or admiration for Hitler or anything connected to the Third Reich. A lot of them fought against him in WWII.

Dad and his brother, Uncle Joe, both served during WWII.

None of the comments I heard growing up should be construed to mean anything other than the usual rhetoric when a bunch of Germans get together for a family reunion. And of course, they all like beer. :drink:

Candidly, there were discriminatory comments about Jews. I witnessed dad make prejudicial comments about Jews, oddly, there was a clothing store in our home town owned by a Jewish family and dad would only shop there. He openly referred to him as "The Jew".

 

[Rafter S]

Dave,

Northern Kentucky has a very strong German influence. My paternal Grandfather was 100 % German. He married my grandmother in Cincinnati who was also 100 % German. Grandma spoke a lot of German. They were Roman Catholic of Low German order. Dad was the youngest of 11 siblings. When they got together at family reunions, I vividly remember them bragging about if Hitler would have had Petro, he would have won World War II. That German Pride ran deep. Many of the steel and machinist workers in Cincinnati were German. In school, I remember a slight degree of German sentiment. I had it in me too, due to my Dad's influence. If you have not been through North Dakota, you may not know but the Northern European influence is still alive with many German names and even remaining accent.

We have a lot of Germans in Texas too. I'm of 100% German heritage on both sides, both my parents grew up speaking German (although different dialects), and until recent years my church was made up almost exclusively of ethnic Germans. And the German pride runs deep here too, but I've never heard a single one of my relatives, neighbors, etc express any sympathy, support, or admiration for Hitler or anything connected to the Third Reich. A lot of them fought against him in WWII.

Dad and his brother, Uncle Joe, both served during WWII.

None of the comments I heard growing up should be construed to mean anything other than the usual rhetoric when a bunch of Germans get together for a family reunion. And of course, they all like beer. :drink:

Candidly, there were discriminatory comments about Jews. I witnessed dad make prejudicial comments about Jews, oddly, there was a clothing store in our home town owned by a Jewish family and dad would only shop there. He openly referred to him as "The Jew".

I heard a lot of discriminatory comments from people of my parents generation too, but I'll say this for them; they were equal opportunity bigots. Those comments were directed at just about everyone except Germans. As I got older I was especially amused at their condescending attitudes toward people of Polish ancestry (whom they referred to as "Polanders").

 

[Bright Raven]

We have a lot of Germans in Texas too. I'm of 100% German heritage on both sides, both my parents grew up speaking German (although different dialects), and until recent years my church was made up almost exclusively of ethnic Germans. And the German pride runs deep here too, but I've never heard a single one of my relatives, neighbors, etc express any sympathy, support, or admiration for Hitler or anything connected to the Third Reich. A lot of them fought against him in WWII.

Dad and his brother, Uncle Joe, both served during WWII.

None of the comments I heard growing up should be construed to mean anything other than the usual rhetoric when a bunch of Germans get together for a family reunion. And of course, they all like beer. :drink:

Candidly, there were discriminatory comments about Jews. I witnessed dad make prejudicial comments about Jews, oddly, there was a clothing store in our home town owned by a Jewish family and dad would only shop there. He openly referred to him as "The Jew".

I heard a lot of discriminatory comments from people of my parents generation too, but I'll say this for them; they were equal opportunity bigots. Those comments were directed at just about everyone except Germans. As I got older I was especially amused at their condescending attitudes toward people of Polish ancestry (whom they referred to as "Polanders").

Where I was raised there were lots of German Roman Catholics. They are hard people and you better have a tough skin because they don't practice discretion but they work hard, are dedicated to their family responsibilities and will drop their own obligations to help someone out.

 

[Rafter S]

Dad and his brother, Uncle Joe, both served during WWII.

None of the comments I heard growing up should be construed to mean anything other than the usual rhetoric when a bunch of Germans get together for a family reunion. And of course, they all like beer. :drink:

Candidly, there were discriminatory comments about Jews. I witnessed dad make prejudicial comments about Jews, oddly, there was a clothing store in our home town owned by a Jewish family and dad would only shop there. He openly referred to him as "The Jew".

I heard a lot of discriminatory comments from people of my parents generation too, but I'll say this for them; they were equal opportunity bigots. Those comments were directed at just about everyone except Germans. As I got older I was especially amused at their condescending attitudes toward people of Polish ancestry (whom they referred to as "Polanders").

Where I was raised there were lots of German Roman Catholics. They are hard people and you better have a tough skin because they don't practice discretion but they work hard, are dedicated to their family responsibilities and will drop their own obligations to help someone out.

The Germans are pretty much all Lutherans here, but otherwise that sounds pretty familiar.

 

[redandblack]

I didn't want to post on this topic because I consider myself short in the tooth and am by no means a history professor, but the purpose of this forum is to interact and share opinions. So here is my opinion. I was never a slave, nor was anyone in my family a slave or slave owner, so I find it very hard to relate to someones thinking a as to why someone else would or would not do something. All the time I hear people talking about what someone did or didn't do and how they don't agree with it, but to be honest do any of us really know unless we actually went through what their ancestors did. If somebody truly has a strong opinion about something they should stand up and voice that opinion, that is what has made this country what it is. My biggest issue with all this is do the majority of them really have an issue with the removal of the statues or are they just using it to push their agenda? Same with the whites I would bet some of them had never even visited the statues or knew where they were but threw a fit because they were getting moved. What is the scariest to me about the whole situation is the majority of youth today is uneducated and uninformed and they just spew whatever information they hear and don't research to find at least some form of reality. It is a very scary time and I personally do not see it getting any better. Officially off my soap box

What does that mean, "push their agenda?" I hear that sometimes (or, lately, a lot) and am honestly befuddled. I like to debate things on their merits, not automatically dismiss someone's viewpoint as having an "agenda." Everything and everyone has an "agenda." I guess I just don't see it as a useful way to try to understand an issue, or point-of-view.

The "agenda" (if you want to call it that) is that they (whether white or black or mixed) don't think there should be memorials to slavery (in this instance, on the very spot where slaves were sold). Why is that not a sufficient reason? (Regardless whether you agree with it, I'm not sure why the "agenda" can't be just: "we find these offensive, given their context"?). It sounds like you are arguing no one has a right to that opinion, that there must be some more nefarious Grand Plan.
In terms of people being uneducated and ill-informed, I agree with you that there is far too much of that. I would just note that it's not limited to the young folk, unfortunately.

The purpose of the "agenda" comment was do a majority of the people complaining even care one way or the other? Not claiming they do or not, but are they acting out just because someone else is. And everybody does have an "agenda", what I meant was are they truly upset or are they using these statues as a platform for media attention to try to further their ideology and I'm referring to both sides.

 

[redandblack]

I was never a slave, nor was anyone in my family a slave or slave owner, so I find it very hard to relate to someones thinking a as to why someone else would or would not do something. All the time I hear people talking about what someone did or didn't do and how they don't agree with it, but to be honest do any of us really know unless we actually went through what their ancestors did.

What is the scariest to me about the whole situation is the majority of youth today is uneducated and uninformed and they just spew whatever information they hear and don't research to find at least some form of reality. It is a very scary time and I personally do not see it getting any better. Officially off my soap box

-Think of the worst job you can think of, doing it every day for the rest of your life. All day, every day, for some guy who gets rich off of your labor and you get beaten if you don't do your job well enough. Then, it's discovered that you secretly have a spouse, so they are sold off b/c the "master has to have his rules, right?" And your children are sold to another person, not the same that your spouse went to, so that the point is made with an exclamation point. You have no education, enough food to keep you alive and enough shelter to keep you from dying from the elements. That, in a nutshell, is what slavery was like for most.

-I'm not going to attack the "pushing their agenda" point, Boondocks already did that.

-Disseminating opinions based on lack of information is nothing new. There was a time when people thought blacks were intellectually inferior to whites for a myriad of reasons, that the shape of one's skull could tell you how smart that person was, that God gave the US to whites (manifest destiny), the world was flat, that women voting would ruin society, that Jews were ruining the world. It is nothing new that people go off half-cocked about subjects that they don't know anything about. Heck, I see it on here all the time.

I agree 100%, what I was referring to was the people who said just get over it, it's really hard for me to tell someone to get over something if I have never experienced what they are going through.

 

[Bestoutwest]

I agree 100%, what I was referring to was the people who said just get over it, it's really hard for me to tell someone to get over something if I have never experienced what they are going through.

Agreed. Until you walk, at least, a mile in a person's shoes you have no idea what their life is like. Even famous, rich people lead lives that I think most would find unsuitable. I could live with the rich part, couldn't stand the famous part.

 

[Bright Raven]

The Germans are pretty much all Lutherans here, but otherwise that sounds pretty familiar.

Germany: Catholicism is the number one religion in Germany. 28.5 percent. 36.7 percent of the population is non-affiliated compared to only 16 percent in the US.

My German ancestors were Low German as explained below:

Low German or Low Saxon (Low German Plattdütsch, Plattdüütsch, Nedderdüütsch; Platduuts, Nedderduuts; German: Plattdeutsch, Niederdeutsche Dialekte; Dutch: Nedersaksisch, or Nederduits in the wider sense) is a West Germanic language spoken mainly in northern Germany and the eastern part of the Netherlands. It is also spoken to a lesser extent in the German diaspora worldwide, notably the Plautdietsch, by ethnic Frisians wherever Friso-Saxon dialects are spoken, and in Southern Denmark.

For reference:

The Saxons were a group of Germanic tribes first mentioned as living near the North Sea coast of what is now Germany, in the late Roman empire.