Lexington Moving Statues

[Bright Raven]

Lexington mayor was on Channel 18 last night. Two statues commemorating two confederate leaders are on what was one of the largest slave selling blocks in America - the street in front of the courthouse in Lexington where men, women and children were sold. According to the mayor, the south lost; losers don't usually get to celebrate their loss. So he is asking the City Council to have the statues commemorating the cause moved.

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/coun ... 34037.html

 

[Ol' 243]

According to the mayor, the south lost; losers don't usually get to celebrate their loss.

I thought everyone these days gets a trophy, even for just participating. Oh, that only applies to liberals.

 

[Jogeephus]

According to the mayor, the south lost; losers don't usually get to celebrate their loss.

I thought everyone these days gets a trophy, even for just participating. Oh, that only applies to liberals.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Just another step closer to war.
It is like watching old Hitler news reels where he is trying to change edit history.

 

[Bright Raven]

This helps the University of Kentucky in recruiting basketball players. Coaches have been working for years to improve the image of Rupp. In fact, there was a Movie based on it. When an all black Texas Western Team beat an all white UK team led by Pat Riley:

1966 NCAA
Texas Western 72, Kentucky 65

 

[boondocks]

Lexington mayor was on Channel 18 last night. Two statues commemorating two confederate leaders are on what was one of the largest slave selling blocks in America - the street in front of the courthouse in Lexington where men, women and children were sold. According to the mayor, the south lost; losers don't usually get to celebrate their loss. So he is asking the City Council to have the statues commemorating the cause moved.

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/coun ... 34037.html

I would guess that the location of the monuments are especially troubling. I would suppose that if my ancestors had been sold like cattle on that very spot, that I would be deeply (hurt?angered? something) by a statue on that very spot, commemorating as heroes the men that worked to try to preserve that system and enslave my family.
On the other hand, the fact that Lexington (at a given point in history) thought enough of these men to so honor them, is in and of itself a (sad) history lesson.
I think we need thoughtful engagement with these complex issues of historical representation. Not partisanship, not sound bites, and certainly not loss of life.

 

[Bright Raven]

Lexington mayor was on Channel 18 last night. Two statues commemorating two confederate leaders are on what was one of the largest slave selling blocks in America - the street in front of the courthouse in Lexington where men, women and children were sold. According to the mayor, the south lost; losers don't usually get to celebrate their loss. So he is asking the City Council to have the statues commemorating the cause moved.

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/coun ... 34037.html

I would guess that the location of the monuments are especially troubling. I would suppose that if my ancestors had been sold like cattle on that very spot, that I would be deeply (hurt?angered? something) by a statue on that very spot, commemorating as heroes the men that worked to try to preserve that system and enslave my family.
On the other hand, the fact that Lexington (at a given point in history) thought enough of these men to so honor them, is in and of itself a (sad) history lesson.
I think we need thoughtful engagement with these complex issues of historical representation. Not partisanship, not sound bites, and certainly not loss of life.

I heard the Mayor live last night. He said your exact words. He said it has bothered him a long time.

PS: his points are poignant

 

[kenny thomas]

I really doubt any basketball player has decided not to go there because of the statues.

 

[Craig Miller]

Lexington mayor was on Channel 18 last night. Two statues commemorating two confederate leaders are on what was one of the largest slave selling blocks in America - the street in front of the courthouse in Lexington where men, women and children were sold. According to the mayor, the south lost; losers don't usually get to celebrate their loss. So he is asking the City Council to have the statues commemorating the cause moved.

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/coun ... 34037.html

I would guess that the location of the monuments are especially troubling. I would suppose that if my ancestors had been sold like cattle on that very spot, that I would be deeply (hurt?angered? something) by a statue on that very spot, commemorating as heroes the men that worked to try to preserve that system and enslave my family.
On the other hand, the fact that Lexington (at a given point in history) thought enough of these men to so honor them, is in and of itself a (sad) history lesson.
I think we need thoughtful engagement with these complex issues of historical representation. Not partisanship, not sound bites, and certainly not loss of life.

I heard the Mayor live last night. He said your exact words. He said it has bothered him a long time.

PS: his points are poignant

I don't feel anything for my ancestors from that far back. Never met them. Don't know who they were or what they did. Some could have been slaves. Some owners. Some rich. Some poor. No matter what it doesn't effect me one bit. I saw a video of a statue that got pulled down by a group of protesters. Only one black guy in the whole group.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I guess we need to tear down the Lincoln memorial as well.
Go and read his views in the presidential debates on the African.
Why isn't that history taught.

Lincoln didn't believe blacks should have the same rights as whites.

Though Lincoln argued that the founding fathers' phrase "All men are created equal" applied to blacks and whites alike, this did not mean he thought they should have the same social and political rights. His views became clear during an 1858 series of debates with his opponent in the Illinois race for U.S. Senate, Stephen Douglas, who had accused him of supporting "negro equality." In their fourth debate, at Charleston, Illinois, on September 18, 1858, Lincoln made his position clear. "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races," he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites. What he did believe was that, like all men, blacks had the right to improve their condition in society and to enjoy the fruits of their labor. In this way they were equal to white men, and for this reason slavery was inherently unjust.

 

[HDRider]

You cannot judge history by modern standards. What was OK, and what is OK are two different things.

 

[wacocowboy]

I guess we need to tear down the Lincoln memorial as well.
Go and read his views in the presidential debates on the African.
Why isn't that history taught.

Lincoln didn't believe blacks should have the same rights as whites.

Though Lincoln argued that the founding fathers' phrase "All men are created equal" applied to blacks and whites alike, this did not mean he thought they should have the same social and political rights. His views became clear during an 1858 series of debates with his opponent in the Illinois race for U.S. Senate, Stephen Douglas, who had accused him of supporting "negro equality." In their fourth debate, at Charleston, Illinois, on September 18, 1858, Lincoln made his position clear. "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races," he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites. What he did believe was that, like all men, blacks had the right to improve their condition in society and to enjoy the fruits of their labor. In this way they were equal to white men, and for this reason slavery was inherently unjust.

Don't you know you are not allowed to bring up stuff like that. Now be a good boy and sweep it back under the rug.

People also don't know Lincoln had plans to send slaves back to Africa and also to the Caribbean, and Central and South America. Things would be a lot different if JWB hadn't shot Lincoln.

 

[Rafter S]

You cannot judge history by modern standards. What was OK, and what is OK are two different things.

Thank you. Too many people fail to understand that.

 

[Bright Raven]

I really doubt any basketball player has decided not to go there because of the statues.

Opposing programs have used racial history for years recruiting against UK. The 2006 movie Glory Road disturbed UK and its fans because it portrayed Adolph Rupp as an extreme Racist. The Rupp family threatened a lawsuit. So there is a story there maybe not a specific case to point to.


Except:
It's not that most Kentuckians have a quibble with the heroes of "Glory Road" -- the 1966 Texas Western team that made basketball history in the national title game by starting five black players. Their dispute is with the perceived villains.

The all-white Kentucky Wildcats lost that game, and actor Jon Voight's portrayal of the late Adolph Rupp has opened a sensitive debate here on whether the Hall of Fame coach was racist.

 

[kenny thomas]

I doubt any player there now even knows there is a statue must less what it stands for.

 

[Bright Raven]

I doubt any player there now even knows there is a statue must less what it stands for.

I have never seen these two statues. The statue of Man of War impresses me a lot more.

 

[callmefence]

You cannot judge history by modern standards. What was OK, and what is OK are two different things.

Well said

 

[TexasBred]

I guess we need to tear down the Lincoln memorial as well.
Go and read his views in the presidential debates on the African.
Why isn't that history taught.

Lincoln didn't believe blacks should have the same rights as whites.

Though Lincoln argued that the founding fathers' phrase "All men are created equal" applied to blacks and whites alike, this did not mean he thought they should have the same social and political rights. His views became clear during an 1858 series of debates with his opponent in the Illinois race for U.S. Senate, Stephen Douglas, who had accused him of supporting "negro equality." In their fourth debate, at Charleston, Illinois, on September 18, 1858, Lincoln made his position clear. "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races," he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites. What he did believe was that, like all men, blacks had the right to improve their condition in society and to enjoy the fruits of their labor. In this way they were equal to white men, and for this reason slavery was inherently unjust.

And like so many other people CB Lincoln had changed his views about many things as time passed. If we were all judged by a few comments we made as much younger men most of us couldn't even get a job today.

 

[Bright Raven]

And like so many other people CB Lincoln had changed his views about many things as time passed. If we were all judged by a few comments we made as much younger men most of us couldn't even get a job today.

Funny and all so true. You know, for a mean old man, you are pretty Clever.

 

[TexasBred]

I guess we need to tear down the Lincoln memorial as well.
Go and read his views in the presidential debates on the African.
Why isn't that history taught.

Lincoln didn't believe blacks should have the same rights as whites.

Though Lincoln argued that the founding fathers' phrase "All men are created equal" applied to blacks and whites alike, this did not mean he thought they should have the same social and political rights. His views became clear during an 1858 series of debates with his opponent in the Illinois race for U.S. Senate, Stephen Douglas, who had accused him of supporting "negro equality." In their fourth debate, at Charleston, Illinois, on September 18, 1858, Lincoln made his position clear. "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races," he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites. What he did believe was that, like all men, blacks had the right to improve their condition in society and to enjoy the fruits of their labor. In this way they were equal to white men, and for this reason slavery was inherently unjust.

Don't you know you are not allowed to bring up stuff like that. Now be a good boy and sweep it back under the rug.

People also don't know Lincoln had plans to send slaves back to Africa and also to the Caribbean, and Central and South America. Things would be a lot different if JWB hadn't shot Lincoln.

Waco that thought never got much past the "thought" stage. Monroe had already tried it and actually done it (Monrovia, Liberia) was a relocation point. Of course you also knew the Confederacy had thoughts just as strongly about "conquering" Mexico, Central America and South America if possible and expand slavery. Considered much of it great "cotton growing" land.

But you're right, things might have been much different if the South hadn't seceeded...and if JWB hadn't shot Lincoln. But we'll just have to live with history as it is and as it affects us all today.