Kneeling in the NFL

[farmguy]

I only have a minute so this may already have been posted, if so forgive me. farmguy

Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:
The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I only have a minute so this may already have been posted, if so forgive me. farmguy

Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:
The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

Looks to me the Patriots come by it honestly.

 

[D2Cat]

Here's the article in the KC Star about the reported rumor. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article175221581.html

 

[boondocks]

My problem with this is I'm tired of victims.

They say you can divide the country into the producers and the parasites. And to be a good parasite in today's society, and to get benefits, you have to promote yourself as a victim.

So women and blacks especially promote themselves as oppressed. If a black cop killed a white guy, wouldn't make the news. No riots, no kneeling during the anthem, or whatever.

Today at work, I suggested that all the white guys get together and take a week off work and let the economy and infrastructure collapse. One guy said he couldn't - he had bills to pay. I said, that's my point - while you're busy producing, the rest of the country is spending their time protesting, so they can sponge off you, and tell you what a lousy POS you are.

The parasite load will continue to increase until we can no longer support them, and there's going to be some serious conflict. That's why someone needs to put an end to this nonsense now, but everyone wants to be politically correct.

Besides all that, not real bright to offend half your customers. Imagine running a restaurant and making a scene.

Morons.

Been thinking for quite a while I have better things to do than watching the NFL. Time to move on. Was thinking I might go to more high school games and watch some local boys that do it for fun - not someone we bid on.

I have friends, family and neighbors who are liberal, conservative and everything in between. (Most don't fit neatly under some stupid label). Even know a few protestors or rallyers personally. Whether left or right, I have never personally known a protestor or rally attendee who didn't work. But I guess it's easier to dismiss a difference of opinion if you can dehumanize someone or make them out to be welfarians. All those folks at the "MOAR" on welfare? How about the Malheur guys? Charlottesville white supremacists? Protestors supporting the Confederate monuments? All on welfare? (I've seen a lot of protestors and rallies on the news the past few months. They have not all been women and black folks. You may want to change your channel now and again). Referring to people you disagree with (but have never met) as deadbeats is also an intellectually cheap way to not have to engage with the issues the other side is raising. By way of example only: is it that the NFL kneelers are paid too much? Or that they are jobless losers? I am hearing both complaints on this thread. Just like I'm hearing that we don't want them to protest violently, but we also don't want them to quietly kneel either. I wish they'd pick a different method too, but I can't condone the rank hypocrisy and double standards.

 

[dieselbeef]

99% of the people don't know what they are protesting. they just don't like it

and all that protesting hasn't done a dang thing to raise any awareness or move forward anything to do with oppression

just more I wanna belong bandwagon crap that the lemmings will follow right off a cliff. a good cult leader could really have a good time with society right now

 

[angus9259]

North Korea detonating hydrogen bombs and says US has declared war on them. South Korea being held hostage. Puerto Rican humanitarian crisis mounting. Healthcare politics in disarray. US at economic war with China. US at war with itself over race, economics, rural vs urban, you name it. President using energy to pick and continue a fight where a few people playing an expensive recess game won't stand when they're told.... SAD!

 

[djinwa]

My problem with this is I'm tired of victims.

They say you can divide the country into the producers and the parasites. And to be a good parasite in today's society, and to get benefits, you have to promote yourself as a victim.

So women and blacks especially promote themselves as oppressed. If a black cop killed a white guy, wouldn't make the news. No riots, no kneeling during the anthem, or whatever.

Today at work, I suggested that all the white guys get together and take a week off work and let the economy and infrastructure collapse. One guy said he couldn't - he had bills to pay. I said, that's my point - while you're busy producing, the rest of the country is spending their time protesting, so they can sponge off you, and tell you what a lousy POS you are.

The parasite load will continue to increase until we can no longer support them, and there's going to be some serious conflict. That's why someone needs to put an end to this nonsense now, but everyone wants to be politically correct.

Besides all that, not real bright to offend half your customers. Imagine running a restaurant and making a scene.

Morons.

Been thinking for quite a while I have better things to do than watching the NFL. Time to move on. Was thinking I might go to more high school games and watch some local boys that do it for fun - not someone we bid on.

I have friends, family and neighbors who are liberal, conservative and everything in between. (Most don't fit neatly under some stupid label). Even know a few protestors or rallyers personally. Whether left or right, I have never personally known a protestor or rally attendee who didn't work. But I guess it's easier to dismiss a difference of opinion if you can dehumanize someone or make them out to be welfarians. All those folks at the "MOAR" on welfare? How about the Malheur guys? Charlottesville white supremacists? Protestors supporting the Confederate monuments? All on welfare? (I've seen a lot of protestors and rallies on the news the past few months. They have not all been women and black folks. You may want to change your channel now and again). Referring to people you disagree with (but have never met) as deadbeats is also an intellectually cheap way to not have to engage with the issues the other side is raising. By way of example only: is it that the NFL kneelers are paid too much? Or that they are jobless losers? I am hearing both complaints on this thread. Just like I'm hearing that we don't want them to protest violently, but we also don't want them to quietly kneel either. I wish they'd pick a different method too, but I can't condone the rank hypocrisy and double standards.

Let me explain further.

This kneeling thing originally started supposedly because some blacks were shot by cops. Then players generalized and decided that blacks everywhere were being picked out because of their skin. So it was generalized that white cops were shooting blacks for no reason and that blacks everywhere were being targeted by whites. That is bigotry and racism.

So blacks are allowed to generalize and be racist toward whites but not the reverse. Again, where are the news stories about whites being shot by blacks, and why are white players not protesting that? Why the different mindset?

In addition, in any industry, if you hire by merit and end up with more white guys, you are considered be discriminating. In the NFL and NBA, if you hire by merit and end up with more black guys, we cannot call it discrimination.

A few white supremicists hold a rally and then it is generalized that such racism is rampant in America. I don't know any white supremicists. Why the generalization and bigotry against whites?

Again, it is because certain groups are allowed to be victims, as a lot of people make money off that industry - food companies, healthcare companies, etc. For example, in the 1960's, before the War on Poverty was started, the rate of illegitimacy in the black community was 30%. Now it is over 70%. These are women having children without dads because they deserve a gov't check because they are victims. So odds are, many of these rich NFL players were raised by single moms and instilled with that mentality.

Yes, there are many who were not, but it seems to be politically correct, you have to join the team and generalize and portray yourselves as victims. And it seems the owners do also. Everybody jumping on the bandwagon.

Not all blacks like the whole victim business. Watch Morgan Freeman talk about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0p_pQ7PTYU

 

[TexasBred]

Does anyone think the Superbowl will be cancelled this year? Some good may come out of this national spectacle.

This nation needs a conscience. Those that go to college, study, learn and excell in academics are rewarded less than a thick-necked jock who can play with a round or elliptical object. Emphasis the word "play".

Universities are now better know for their athletics programs than their Chemistry Department. There are still a few exceptions, like Vanderbilt.

As one fella said the other day "it's not a uniform they wear....it's a costume". :lol:

 

[Bright Raven]

So blacks are allowed to generalize and be racist toward whites but not the reverse. Again, where are the news stories about whites being shot by blacks, and why are white players not protesting that? Why the different mindset?

Because they remain the minority race. An analogy would be a 230 pound tight end complaining that a 120 pound nerd is picking on him. Lol.

As of July 2016, white Americans are the racial majority. African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.3% of the population.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Maybe we have finally given them enough rope to hang themselves.

They're dividing.

The biggest yellow dogs I know are now raising their eyebrows. I sat a listened to a yellow dog rant and rave a couple of hours ago.

They will not wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Bestoutwest]

Let me explain further.

This kneeling thing originally started supposedly because some blacks were shot by cops. Then players generalized and decided that blacks everywhere were being picked out because of their skin. So it was generalized that white cops were shooting blacks for no reason and that blacks everywhere were being targeted by whites. That is bigotry and racism.

So blacks are allowed to generalize and be racist toward whites but not the reverse. Again, where are the news stories about whites being shot by blacks, and why are white players not protesting that? Why the different mindset?

A few white supremicists hold a rally and then it is generalized that such racism is rampant in America. I don't know any white supremicists. Why the generalization and bigotry against whites?

Again, it is because certain groups are allowed to be victims, as a lot of people make money off that industry - food companies, healthcare companies, etc. For example, in the 1960's, before the War on Poverty was started, the rate of illegitimacy in the black community was 30%. Now it is over 70%. These are women having children without dads because they deserve a gov't check because they are victims. So odds are, many of these rich NFL players were raised by single moms and instilled with that mentality.

Yes, there are many who were not, but it seems to be politically correct, you have to join the team and generalize and portray yourselves as victims. And it seems the owners do also. Everybody jumping on the bandwagon.

Not all blacks like the whole victim business. Watch Morgan Freeman talk about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0p_pQ7PTYU

One of the problems is the language used toward the white supremacists. Trump stated "some of them are very good people." Very good people don't chant anger against another culture. They do not show up en masse carrying torches, standing in a military type configuration marching to state that they will not be taken over and that they want THEIR country back.

I would love to see where you got your statistics that 70% of the black community is illegitimate. Seriously, let's see those. Let me share something with you. My clinic that I work at is 90% medicare, Medicaid. The overwhelmingly vast majority of people here on Medicaid are not black. The vast majority are white, church attending, multiple children having "God will provide, and if he don't the state will!" type folks.

I agree with Boondocks that this seems to be a case where it's easier to dehumanize someone you don't like than actually admit that you don't like them for some reason or another.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Let me explain further.

This kneeling thing originally started supposedly because some blacks were shot by cops. Then players generalized and decided that blacks everywhere were being picked out because of their skin. So it was generalized that white cops were shooting blacks for no reason and that blacks everywhere were being targeted by whites. That is bigotry and racism.

So blacks are allowed to generalize and be racist toward whites but not the reverse. Again, where are the news stories about whites being shot by blacks, and why are white players not protesting that? Why the different mindset?

A few white supremicists hold a rally and then it is generalized that such racism is rampant in America. I don't know any white supremicists. Why the generalization and bigotry against whites?

Again, it is because certain groups are allowed to be victims, as a lot of people make money off that industry - food companies, healthcare companies, etc. For example, in the 1960's, before the War on Poverty was started, the rate of illegitimacy in the black community was 30%. Now it is over 70%. These are women having children without dads because they deserve a gov't check because they are victims. So odds are, many of these rich NFL players were raised by single moms and instilled with that mentality.

Yes, there are many who were not, but it seems to be politically correct, you have to join the team and generalize and portray yourselves as victims. And it seems the owners do also. Everybody jumping on the bandwagon.

Not all blacks like the whole victim business. Watch Morgan Freeman talk about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0p_pQ7PTYU

One of the problems is the language used toward the white supremacists. Trump stated "some of them are very good people." Very good people don't chant anger against another culture. They do not show up en masse carrying torches, standing in a military type configuration marching to state that they will not be taken over and that they want THEIR country back.

I would love to see where you got your statistics that 70% of the black community is illegitimate. Seriously, let's see those. Let me share something with you. My clinic that I work at is 90% medicare, Medicaid. The overwhelmingly vast majority of people here on Medicaid are not black. The vast majority are white, church attending, multiple children having "God will provide, and if he don't the state will!" type folks.

I agree with Boondocks that this seems to be a case where it's easier to dehumanize someone you don't like than actually admit that you don't like them for some reason or another.

You need to get out of your bubble.
The vast majority here could star in a Tarzan movie.

 

[Bestoutwest]

You need to get out of your bubble.
The vast majority here could star in a Tarzan movie.

CB, I won't disagree that there are some really, really bad apples. I lived in Illinois at one point and there were quite a few neighborhoods that a white person did not enter. Same thing when we went visiting Chicago. However, I try not to judge everyone with the same swatch, but rather on a case-by-case basis. Otherwise, everyone from the Pacific NW is a liberal hippy, Northeasterns are frigid, Midwesterners are overly friendly, and everyone from the south is racist, stupid and they talk funny. Are any of those things correct? Well, of course there are some truths there. However, we have our fair share of stupidity, racism, frigid liberals, and overly friendly people right here within a 30 mile radius.

 

[skyhightree1]

I don't have much to say and really don't care what someone does its their choice same as its your choice to watch sports and support teams... I have a problem with the GD POTUS tweeting about such trivial BS and wanting to pass laws/rules on kneeling when we got thousands of more serious things going on in this country and in this world. He is more worried about some AH kneeling vs the stuff that happened here in Charlottesville.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't have much to say and really don't care what someone does its their choice same as its your choice to watch sports and support teams... I have a problem with the GD POTUS tweeting about such trivial BS and wanting to pass laws/rules on kneeling when we got thousands of more serious things going on in this country and in this world. He is more worried about some AH kneeling vs the stuff that happened here in Charlottesville.

What happened in Charlottesville was radicals from both sides coming together.
The POTUS was right on that one.
My take is if you act like animals in the street you should be shot down in them no matter your color or party.
If we are going to rid the country of our history and statues let's get everybody
from Washington to King cause they surely offend someone.
Let's do away with every Martin Luther King Dr along with Washington Avenue while we're at it.

 

[skyhightree1]

I don't have much to say and really don't care what someone does its their choice same as its your choice to watch sports and support teams... I have a problem with the GD POTUS tweeting about such trivial BS and wanting to pass laws/rules on kneeling when we got thousands of more serious things going on in this country and in this world. He is more worried about some AH kneeling vs the stuff that happened here in Charlottesville.

What happened in Charlottesville was radicals from both sides coming together.
The POTUS was right on that one.
My take is if you act like animals in the street you should be shot down in them no matter your color or party.
If we are going to rid the country of our history and statues let's get everybody
from Washington to King cause they surely offend someone.
Let's do away with every Martin Luther King Dr along with Washington Avenue while we're at it.

My point of the posts was really that the potus should be more concerned with more serious events than sports. And that what difference does it make what the athletes do

 

[Bright Raven]

I think it is a classless, ineffective way to communicate the concern. Very little if any dialogue pertaining to the cause has been initiated by the behavior. The behavior has become the focus, not the concern. Having said that, if the NFL and/or owners permit such behavior, so be it. Prepare for the consequences already manifest.

My scholarly friend:

Class is not a prerequisite for protest or expressing your grievances! The Crown surely did not praise the Boston Tea Party as a class act. Kneeling is a peaceful act if not classy. The flag was not burnt. No one was hurt.

Regarding dialogue. You think a case can be made for dialogue? What in heII's creation is there to talk about that we don't already know?

As I see it, their act of kneeling is intended to say all there is to say. Their message - (IMO) racism is still alive and well. During the Vietnam Era, protests were the only form of dialogue possible. The Johnson administration treated protests as childish acts of ignorance. Flags were burnt, draft cards were burnt, and college students were shot down dead at Kent State. At the end of the day, those college students were more insightful than our leaders who were administering the war. BTW: I experienced those protests in the flesh although I was a non-partisan.

I am not taking a side on this. Just making my view known that CLASS and DIALOGUE are not the common ingredients of Protest. If they were, you would not need protest.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Sky I really thinks it makes a difference today's athletes are my generations Roy Rogers.
The are looked at as role models by many, the NFL should require them to act as such while on the clock.
You get what you accept and I view this an unacceptable behavior no matter your race religion etc.

 

[bball]

I think it is a classless, ineffective way to communicate the concern. Very little if any dialogue pertaining to the cause has been initiated by the behavior. The behavior has become the focus, not the concern. Having said that, if the NFL and/or owners permit such behavior, so be it. Prepare for the consequences already manifest.

My scholarly friend:

Class is not a prerequisite for protest or expressing your grievances! The Crown surely did not praise the Boston Tea Party as a class act. Kneeling is a peaceful act if not classy. The flag was not burnt. No one was hurt.

Classless was my 'personal' opine. Which i am also entitled to. Didnt say it was a prerequisite, just offered my assessment. I will even share why, (and I know it's personal and perhaps emotional response,) but nevertheless, my feelings on it: as one who left a college scholarship to enlist during Desert Storm, and has known several folks who have given pieces and parts or all of themselves for this nation, it just seems classless to me. Boston TEA Party was an act of terrorism against a tyrannical monarch, perpetuated by less than 'free' men. Apples and oranges perhaps.

Regarding dialogue. You think a case can be made for dialogue? What in heII's creation is there to talk about that we don't already know?

Well, that's something you would have to ask these athletes. That is their stated goal for these protests. Open dialogue.. but no one is talking about the why; the act is the focus. I believe there is PLENTY we as a people don't understand about this..on both sides..which is why there is such a divide. Open communication, actual speaking, listening, identifying the problems, focusing on solutions, etc to help close the divide, but neither wants to do this. There is a very real lack of quality leadership in black communities..and white communities aren't much better in many cases.

As I see it, their act of kneeling is intended to say all there is to say. Their message - (IMO) racism is still alive and well. During the Vietnam Era, protests were the only form of dialogue possible. The Johnson administration treated protests as childish acts of ignorance. Flags were burnt, draft cards were burnt, and college students were shot down dead at Kent State. At the end of the day, those college students were more insightful than our leaders who were administering the war. BTW: I experienced those protests in the flesh although I was a non-partisan.

I am not taking a side on this. Just making my view known that CLASS and DIALOGUE are not the common ingredients of Protest. If they were, you would not need protest.

You said racism is alive and well is the message. I dont disagree. Both sides give it power and life by the constant obsessing, to paraphrase Morgan Freeman. There are staggering statistics to support this: black on black crime, single mother homes, percentages of higher education in black communities, etc. Then one asks the most important question, why? This is where it typically all falls apart. Whites want to blame blacks. Blacks want to blame whites. And racism flourishes.
Ben Shapiro has an intetesting explanation for this phenomena. If i can find the link i will post it.

I daily wonder just exactly how a real leader like MLK JR would navigate these times...his messages to the black community of personal accountability, peaceful change(not lumping kneeling as not peaceful) and unity are left in the hands of much lesser men.

Thanks for the response Raven. While we don't always agree, you certainly never fail to provide food for thought...or discussion.

 

[bball]

Raven, some of my responses are embedded in your post. I screwed that up somehow.