Klein Grass - Good or Bad

[Rafter S]

Its native to your area

I think you might be mistaken about that.

 

[bird dog]

You are correct. It has just been here a long time so it seems like a native. Introduced here in the 50's. It is a great grass in my opinion.

 

[Brute 23]

I read my post from 09 and I was a little hard on the Klein grass. It has its pros and cons like every thing else.

Pros
Makes great hay. Cattle love it. I have been putting up Klein square bales the past couple years and the cattle love them.
Great for wildlife. Deer and Birds love it.
Pretty hardy and easy to establish.
With a little fert and rain you can easily push up 4 and 5 bales to the acre

Cons
You have to be able to rotate it and out of the Klein grass pasture. It needs rest to seed out. (nothing unusual there)
Need water in that field. If it gets mature cattle will go looking for fresh growth. (no shocker there)
Horse deal
Not as marketable as the bermudas when selling hay

I would reconsider planting it again under certain conditions.

 

[1982vett]

Re read the thread too. I did plant eleven acres of Klein in 2010. Of course, just after It dried out enough to plant came the hot and dry weather followed up by 2011....ended up fairly thin. This is the first wet June we have had since I planted and it is growing like crazy. As long as I have plenty of other grazing I am going to let it be hoping it will thicken up. Going to let the Bermuda hay meadows alone too.

 

[bird dog]

Vett from what I have seen, you can graze it without much harm. The cows seem to eat the leafy part of the plant and leave the long stemmy seed head part alone. After a while the pasture will still look good from a distance but once you get up close you can see it is very thin with just the seed head part of the plants left standing. It almost looks like it has been devastated by grass hoppers. After it is established it seems that there are plenty of seeds in the seed bank and they will come up whenever the moisture is adequate.

 

[Shanghai]

My experience was after the 2011 drought and the rains came, the Kleingrass was thin and other grasses took hold.
Prior to the drought it was nearly all Klein and after it was 50-50 mix of klein and other grasses, but that place only had about 6" of rain in 18 months so it may have just been too dry for klein.

Edit
The cows would eat the Klein first and would graze it down too low before eating the other grasses.
If you can rotate it and manage it, it works good, but as someone said cattle will let some get rank and over graze other areas with new growth

I had a horse that would reach from the horse pasture into the kleingrass pasture and graze some. I think at times the white on his nose looked sunburned and maybe a little tender

 

[rocfarm]

Going to try to revive this thread. Hope that's OK.

Got a question about why cattle choose some grasses over others first. Wondering if there is a consistent type of 'succession' to the way cattle pick grasses to eat.

I have a 27 acre 2 degree sloped pasture with:

1) A bit of native stuff growing out of white-chalk caliche soil
2) KR Bluestem growing in the thinner clay loam soil around the upper fringes of the pasture and some of the poorer areas
3) 14 or so acres of thicker Klein grass in the thicker clay loam soil towards the lower side of the slope.
4) Common Bermuda grass in patches around the high-traffic areas like the gates.

The Klein was planted by the fellow who leased it before we took it back over. The KR, native, and common Bermuda are just there naturally.

Even when I had the place leased out at a higher stocking rate, the cattle would keep the native and the KR Bluestem grazed off, but would leave the Klein and common Bermuda. It seems that they prefer the grasses in this order:

1) Native grasses
2) KR Bluestem
3) Common Bermuda
4) Klein

I've researched a bit and it seems that the native grasses are lower dry matter but higher protein, so it makes sense that the cows would eat this 'candy' first. But in this field that 'candy' is growing in some really poor soil! And the next surprising thing is that they go for the KR Bluestem so much over the other grasses. Many folks on this site seem to think the KR is not quality forage, but the cows on my place would seem to disagree.

This baffles me though, because when I was laying 500 feet of PEX for my water trough, the best soil in the field is where the Klein grows. I figured this grass growing in more fertile soil would taste better and have higher protein/nutrient content than the stuff growing out of the caliche or the upper edges of the field, thus making it more desirable to the cows.

But evidently not.

Questions:

1) On your place is there a natural grazing succession like this where the cattle will eat one grass first then move on to the others in succession?
2) If so, does this type of successional grazing depend more on the soil, the cattle's preferences, or the stage of the grass (I know it's probably a combination of the three, but wonder if one factor is more important).

I already know that I can rotate cattle and use polywire to focus grazing, so no need for those suggestions.

Thanks if you respond.

 

[bird dog]

1. Yes
2. Stage of the grass
Johnson grass will grow on any type of soil and they will generally eat it first. They like the broad leaves on plants. They like KR just fine but it is such a slow grower, it doesn't provide enough grass per acre to do much good. Lots of native grasses are very palatable when young but get course and stemmy when they mature. Klein looks like it is not being eaten and while it won't be their first choice, they will eat the new growth coming up at the bottom of the bunches and leave the tall stems.

 

[callmefence]

Going to try to revive this thread. Hope that's OK.

Got a question about why cattle choose some grasses over others first. Wondering if there is a consistent type of 'succession' to the way cattle pick grasses to eat.

I have a 27 acre 2 degree sloped pasture with:

1) A bit of native stuff growing out of white-chalk caliche soil
2) KR Bluestem growing in the thinner clay loam soil around the upper fringes of the pasture and some of the poorer areas
3) 14 or so acres of thicker Klein grass in the thicker clay loam soil towards the lower side of the slope.
4) Common Bermuda grass in patches around the high-traffic areas like the gates.

The Klein was planted by the fellow who leased it before we took it back over. The KR, native, and common Bermuda are just there naturally.

Even when I had the place leased out at a higher stocking rate, the cattle would keep the native and the KR Bluestem grazed off, but would leave the Klein and common Bermuda. It seems that they prefer the grasses in this order:

1) Native grasses
2) KR Bluestem
3) Common Bermuda
4) Klein

I've researched a bit and it seems that the native grasses are lower dry matter but higher protein, so it makes sense that the cows would eat this 'candy' first. But in this field that 'candy' is growing in some really poor soil! And the next surprising thing is that they go for the KR Bluestem so much over the other grasses. Many folks on this site seem to think the KR is not quality forage, but the cows on my place would seem to disagree.

This baffles me though, because when I was laying 500 feet of PEX for my water trough, the best soil in the field is where the Klein grows. I figured this grass growing in more fertile soil would taste better and have higher protein/nutrient content than the stuff growing out of the caliche or the upper edges of the field, thus making it more desirable to the cows.

But evidently not.

Questions:

1) On your place is there a natural grazing succession like this where the cattle will eat one grass first then move on to the others in succession?
2) If so, does this type of successional grazing depend more on the soil, the cattle's preferences, or the stage of the grass (I know it's probably a combination of the three, but wonder if one factor is more important).

I already know that I can rotate cattle and use polywire to focus grazing, so no need for those suggestions.

Thanks if you respond.

I strongly suspect your wrong about something. No offense intended. I've never observed cattle choosing kr over Klein even good Bermuda. The exception might exist if the Klein was very mature and the kr younger but I'm having a hard time imagining what might cause that.
Johnson grass is always the first to go.
Klein will typically be next along with the true native bluestems. Bermuda depends on it's age rain ,and fertilizer applied but it's typically seems less desirable to cattle and wildlife than Klein. A very modest 30 pounds per acre of nitrogen Bermuda will starve while Klein will flourish and make your cows fat and shiny. It is possible that you have bdahl bluestem very difficult to tell apart from kr. It also goes through a stage where they won't touch it then suddenly 2 weeks later they'll take down the fence to get at it. It's odd how a grass that looks so much like the kr is so much more desirable to both cattle and wildlife. I'm referring to kr vs bdahl. central Texas is a big place. Where abouts are you?

 

[Rafter S]

It's not all about nutritional value. Smutgrass is good feed, but cows won't eat it unless they don't have anything else.

 

[simme]

Not sure about any conclusion regarding cows eating what is best or most nutritious for them. Pretty sure that is not true for people. With people, it is what tastes good or makes them feel good. Even if it kills them. Cows may be the same.

 

[Brute 23]

You have other factors effecting their choices if that is what you are observing. It's likely due to the maturity of the grasses. Not sure what your natives are but Bermuda and Klein will usually be at the top of the list. Bermuda in pen areas can be a little hot some times and older Klein might not be as appealing at the moment vs younger KR.

If those grasses were all on one pasture with free grazing to each the Klein would disappear first.

 

[rocfarm]

Thanks for the comments! After reading everyone's opinions, I think it probably has to do with stage of maturity, mainly. A shorter, early stage KR Bluestem is likely more desirable than a late stage Klein or Bermuda…

When I now think about the history, we rested the place for two years and then put cattle back out there. The Klein in the better part of the field was already very mature, and we didn't mow at all. The grasses in the poorer soil were shorter, and, probably got more light to the ground in spring when green up came. Spring two years ago was really wet. I think more water meant good growth, even in the poorer soils. My guess is that there were more tender shoots in that area so the cows went for it first. Then, as they weren't short of grass, they just kept regrazing the new growth instead of the green Klein that was again over mature with a lot of old brown stuff mixed in.

I have a few polywire reels I'll use to try to encourage more consistent grazing for the coming season. I'll even keep them out of the upper parts of that field until the heavily grazed stuff from last year is mature, then see if they stay focused on the Klein first.

 

[Brute 23]

Thanks for the comments! After reading everyone's opinions, I think it probably has to do with stage of maturity, mainly. A shorter, early stage KR Bluestem is likely more desirable than a late stage Klein or Bermuda…

When I now think about the history, we rested the place for two years and then put cattle back out there. The Klein in the better part of the field was already very mature, and we didn't mow at all. The grasses in the poorer soil were shorter, and, probably got more light to the ground in spring when green up came. Spring two years ago was really wet. I think more water meant good growth, even in the poorer soils. My guess is that there were more tender shoots in that area so the cows went for it first. Then, as they weren't short of grass, they just kept regrazing the new growth instead of the green Klein that was again over mature with a lot of old brown stuff mixed in.

I have a few polywire reels I'll use to try to encourage more consistent grazing for the coming season. I'll even keep them out of the upper parts of that field until the heavily grazed stuff from last year is mature, then see if they stay focused on the Klein first.

If you want to keep that Klein make it a pasture of it's own. Make it the priority and turn in and out of it based on its needs. Use the KR as a sacrifice or lower priority area. Manage it against itself, not agaisnt the Klein. Same with your natives. If they are that good try to section them off also and turn in and out as needed.

 

[rocfarm]

It's not all about nutritional value. Smutgrass is good feed, but cows won't eat it unless they don't have anything else.

Seems they'll eat is young but not mature. All grasses have that in common, I think, so i still think it's not necessarily the type of grass but maturity of the plant.

 

[rocfarm]

If you want to keep that Klein make it a pasture of it's own. Make it the priority and turn in and out of it based on its needs. Use the KR as a sacrifice or lower priority area. Manage it against itself, not agaisnt the Klein. Same with your natives. If they are that good try to section them off also and turn in and out as needed.

We'll, I wouldn't mind seeing the Klein increase, but I don't want bare spots from overgrazing, either. Want to get a feel for what's actually going on. Already fenced off most of the Klein section. Going to graze that pasture (and a few others) differently this year and see what the grasses do and also see if the condition of the cattle suffers or not.

 

[rocfarm]

Not sure about any conclusion regarding cows eating what is best or most nutritious for them. Pretty sure that is not true for people. With people, it is what tastes good or makes them feel good. Even if it kills them. Cows may be the same.

They go for palatability for sure. But they do also select for protein I think, especially during the winter. They took all the native stuff first last winter then went to the invasive/introduced, and the stuff I read for central Texas was that native holds up better as stockpile. But then again, maybe that's because the native stays palatable longer…

One reason I want to figure this out is that I know Klein doesn't hold it's protein content through January, so I wanted to use this field as stockpile from October to December. We had good rains in September and I shut the cows in the field for over a month. But they ate the other grass first, then started eating the emerging green winter stuff. Completely ignored the Klein. Best laid plans…

 

[rocfarm]

I strongly suspect your wrong about something. No offense intended. I've never observed cattle choosing kr over Klein even good Bermuda. The exception might exist if the Klein was very mature and the kr younger but I'm having a hard time imagining what might cause that.
Johnson grass is always the first to go.
Klein will typically be next along with the true native bluestems. Bermuda depends on it's age rain ,and fertilizer applied but it's typically seems less desirable to cattle and wildlife than Klein. A very modest 30 pounds per acre of nitrogen Bermuda will starve while Klein will flourish and make your cows fat and shiny. It is possible that you have bdahl bluestem very difficult to tell apart from kr. It also goes through a stage where they won't touch it then suddenly 2 weeks later they'll take down the fence to get at it. It's odd how a grass that looks so much like the kr is so much more desirable to both cattle and wildlife. I'm referring to kr vs bdahl. central Texas is a big place. Where abouts are you?

I'm in the hill country. Dry but good cattle country.

I wish it were BDahl. Much more productive than KR, and the quail would love it. Seen fire ants out there, though. And I was hoping the common Bermuda was an improved type, but it's got seed heads.

I'm starting to sense that if I don't graze all areas if a pasture with similar pressure when I'm understocked, I could inadvertently change the makeup of the flora of that pasture. Going to pay more attention to it.

 

[rocfarm]

1. Yes
2. Stage of the grass
Johnson grass will grow on any type of soil and they will generally eat it first. They like the broad leaves on plants. They like KR just fine but it is such a slow grower, it doesn't provide enough grass per acre to do much good. Lots of native grasses are very palatable when young but get course and stemmy when they mature. Klein looks like it is not being eaten and while it won't be their first choice, they will eat the new growth coming up at the bottom of the bunches and leave the tall stems.

I did mow some of it so hopefully spring will see more pressure on it.

 

[Brute 23]

Quail love Klein, also, as do deer and turkey. Deer will get on new growth Klein like an oats patch.

Common bermuda is good grass, especially for where its growing. It's growing in those places for a reason. It's easy to establish and extremely hardy compared to the hybrids.