Klein Grass - Good or Bad

[rocfarm]

Quail love Klein, also, as do deer and turkey. Deer will get on new growth Klein like an oats patch.

Common bermuda is good grass, especially for where its growing. It's growing in those places for a reason. It's easy to establish and extremely hardy compared to the hybrids.

Yup. But the fire ants keep our quail knocked back. Either that or our neighbors don't leave enough cover for them to establish properly so our efforts are in vain on that front. Makes me sad. But the deer, turkeys, hogs and such look good this year, in spite of the drought, even if the deer are a bit spindly-horned.

Got lots of the common Bermuda spreading in the 35 acres of old wheat fields and it seems to be able to out compete the other grasses. Hoping to get a good 20 acres or so of it.

 

[Brute 23]

Yup. But the fire ants keep our quail knocked back. Either that or our neighbors don't leave enough cover for them to establish properly so our efforts are in vain on that front. Makes me sad. But the deer, turkeys, hogs and such look good this year, in spite of the drought, even if the deer are a bit spindly-horned.

Got lots of the common Bermuda spreading in the 35 acres of old wheat fields and it seems to be able to out compete the other grasses. Hoping to get a good 20 acres or so of it.

For quail you have to have large amounts of acreage with the right cover and food. It can't be too thick or too thin. The hardest thing about quail is as cattle people we want to remove brush and weeds. Those two things are needed for cover and food. The short scrubby brush with no grass under it is their home. The croton and other weeds are their food.

We purposely disk ground to promote weeds and bare dirt for the birds. That does not register with most cattle people.

 

[callmefence]

I'm in the hill country. Dry but good cattle country.

I wish it were BDahl. Much more productive than KR, and the quail would love it. Seen fire ants out there, though. And I was hoping the common Bermuda was an improved type, but it's got seed heads.

I'm starting to sense that if I don't graze all areas if a pasture with similar pressure when I'm understocked, I could inadvertently change the makeup of the flora of that pasture. Going to pay more attention to it.

All Bermuda develops seed heads. The hybrids don't have viable seed but do have seed heads. Lots of improved variety have viable seed..... just sayin

 

[rocfarm]

For quail you have to have large amounts of acreage with the right cover and food. It can't be too thick or too thin. The hardest thing about quail is as cattle people we want to remove brush and weeds. Those two things are needed for cover and food. The short scrubby brush with no grass under it is there home. The croton and other weeds are their feed.

We purposely disk ground to promote weeds and bare dirt for the birds. That does not register with most cattle people.

Yup. I was even crazy enough to download the A&M Quail App and try to figure out if I could do anything. Also make sure I keep tall stuff somewhere all the time.

And know about the discing. Always disc about 3 acres of food plots. Usually the plot fails but I figured the sunflowers and other weeds were good for the wildlife and gave the quail a chance to raise their brood.

But I also know that you need about 2000 acres of continuous, well-managed habitat that takes about 5 different things into account for quail, and with the trend of ever-smaller plots in our county, I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen.

Dad saw a few in January 2021(see pic), but we haven't seen any since.

Having about 2 coveys of quail where I could shoot a few each year and have fried quail like my grandmother used to make would be a dream come true on my place, right up there with a bit of cattle profitability.

 

[rocfarm]

All Bermuda develops seed heads. The hybrids don't have viable seed but do have seed heads. Lots of improved variety have viable seed..... just sayin

Well, I can hope I have BDahl and improved Bermuda, I guess, but I don't think it's going to help. That Bermuda is jumping from place to place, even during the drought. My best guess is that it's spreading by stolons and seed. And there's KR all along the roadside in our county.

My phone app also says KR and common Bermuda, but I'm not sure if I trust it.

If we can get some rain this spring, I don't think I'll care what is growing out there as long as there is something and the cattle eat it. Last year was the grazing season that wasn't on my place.

 

[callmefence]

The only way I've been completely successful at replacing kr bluestem with Bermuda grass is starting with complete scorched earth plan. This was on my home place I'm about halfway to a 100 acre Bermuda field I started 7 years ago and do around 10 acres a year. It was old cotton ground over grown in cedar and kr bluestem. First comes the dozer ,then the roundup at 2.5 quarts. Then chisel and disc. Put in hybrid Sudan production for 2 year's. Then prepare to plant or spring Bermuda. Without the two years of annual Sudan the kr will reappear. A fellow wouldn't have to do the Sudan he could spray Roundup for two years but using the Sudan allows some production off the acreage.

 

[callmefence]

Well, I can hope I have BDahl and improved Bermuda, I guess, but I don't think it's going to help. That Bermuda is jumping from place to place, even during the drought. My best guess is that it's spreading by stolons and seed. And there's KR all along the roadside in our county.

My phone app also says KR and common Bermuda, but I'm not sure if I trust it.

If we can get some rain this spring, I don't think I'll care what is growing out there as long as there is something and the cattle eat it. Last year was the grazing season that wasn't on my place.

Oh I'm sure you're right. I'm just talking.
Although there is a lot of bdahl west of 183. I've got some on both my properties. Florence and lometa. It's hard to tell until it gets big and gets that smell to it.

 

[rocfarm]

The only way I've been completely successful at replacing kr bluestem with Bermuda grass is starting with complete scorched earth plan. This was on my home place I'm about halfway to a 100 acre Bermuda field I started 7 years ago and do around 10 acres a year. It was old cotton ground over grown in cedar and kr bluestem. First comes the dozer ,then the roundup at 2.5 quarts. Then chisel and disc. Put in hybrid Sudan production for 2 year's. Then prepare to plant or spring Bermuda. Without the two years of annual Sudan the kr will reappear. A fellow wouldn't have to do the Sudan he could spray Roundup for two years but using the Sudan allows some production off the acreage.

Well, sounds mighty expensive if you ain't already an owner of that equipment. Unless I was selling $5000 bulls, I don't think I could make it work on my place. I tried to get a native mix of grasses to come up on about 1/2 an acre on my place a few years back. I used a bottom plow first, then disked, then spread seed, then cultipacked. Didn't get much of a stand so far. Was hoping that some kind of seed in the mix would naturally like that soil and do well and start to spread. So far, no such luck.

 

[rocfarm]

Oh I'm sure you're right. I'm just talking.
Although there is a lot of bdahl west of 183. I've got some on both my properties. Florence and lometa. It's hard to tell until it gets big and gets that smell to it.

My stuff don't get big. Also doesn't smell.

But I have 11 acres I'd convert to Dhal if I had the finances. But those A&M guys also said that there is no scenario where you can make that kind of planting pay other than for hay.

I might let someone hay in the future, but I'm really wary of letting nutrients leave the farm. Would rather lease it to someone who had to bring hay onto the farm from other places so I feel like my soil is being enriched, not depleted.

 

[callmefence]

Well, sounds mighty expensive if you ain't already an owner of that equipment. Unless I was selling $5000 bulls, I don't think I could make it work on my place. I tried to get a native mix of grasses to come up on about 1/2 an acre on my place a few years back. I used a bottom plow first, then disked, then spread seed, then cultipacked. Didn't get much of a stand so far. Was hoping that some kind of seed in the mix would naturally like that soil and do well and start to spread. So far, no such luck.

There is one and only one reason I cultivate Bermuda grass. Because I grow and sell hay and I can get twice the money for Bermuda. If it was for feeding cows I would be cultivating Johnson grass and Klein grass.

 

[bird dog]

Fence , what does the sudan do to the KR shade it out?

 

[callmefence]

Fence , what does the sudan do to the KR shade it out?

It does. The disking and planting process kills some sprouting seeds and the Sudan will outcompete anything as long as it gets a good start. Basically killing the seed bank off and your also smoothing the field each year when you prep it to plant the hybrid Sudan....you wanna make sure your using a hybrid of course.
The crop residue that gets plowed in is beneficial to my tight clay as well.

 

[Brute 23]

This guy makes some good posts about managing grass on the gulf coast. Here is another where he hit the nail on the head.

Especially after this cold snap, there will be green down in the bottom of the pasture on the left. It will be the first to produce when the rains come again not matter if it's May or July.

 

[Otha]

Someone made a comment about Klein not stockpiling well back in this thread somewhere. I had good luck with it stockpiling this year. Had dry weather so that helps any summer grass stockpile better. Can't tell it did any different that the Bermuda in the same pasture. I wasn't able to get a picture that showed anything useful but my last patch of Klein I turned into yesterday was still standing up right in both places where it was thick and thin. As far as feed value I haven't tested it but the cows have been getting the same supplement of cubes sense I started grazing this place back the first of November.
Anyways long story short short as long as it doesn't snow down here those taller type bunch grasses seem to stockpile just fine.

 

[rocfarm]

This guy makes some good posts about managing grass on the gulf coast. Here is another where he hit the nail on the head.

Especially after this cold snap, there will be green down in the bottom of the pasture on the left. It will be the first to produce when the rains come again not matter if it's May or July.

I've heard different things on this one. I've heard that, once the grass is dormant, it doesn't matter if you take it short, especially if you are going to fertilize in the spring. I've also heard the opposite.

As far as drought management during warmer weather, I learned firsthand that, if you leave green in your Klein by not grazing it, it recovers and grows a lot of grass on as little as 3 to 4 inches of rain When there is virtually no existing moisture in the ground. My current working theory is that its ungrazed blades/resulting longer roots can draw a bit of deep soil water to help with the nutrient movement through the plant of the shallower soil moisture. This probably gives a bit of an added boost to the plant over and above the commonly mentioned "it takes grass to grow grass" mantra.

Another thing I learned is that, if you have to pressure or 'abuse' grass on your farm, the common Bermuda is probably the best one to do this to in my area.

Klein grass, May 13, 2022.



The farm received 3 to 4 inches of rain between amount May 21 and May 25. The below pics were taken on June 29.


That said, when I put my new cows out there in August, they wouldn't eat the Klein and went for the KR, as I mentioned earlier.

 

[rocfarm]

Someone made a comment about Klein not stockpiling well back in this thread somewhere. I had good luck with it stockpiling this year. Had dry weather so that helps any summer grass stockpile better. Can't tell it did any different that the Bermuda in the same pasture. I wasn't able to get a picture that showed anything useful but my last patch of Klein I turned into yesterday was still standing up right in both places where it was thick and thin. As far as feed value I haven't tested it but the cows have been getting the same supplement of cubes sense I started grazing this place back the first of November.
Anyways long story short short as long as it doesn't snow down here those taller type bunch grasses seem to stockpile just fine.

Same experience in central Texas. Stockpiles real well during dry, warm winters it seems. I'm not sure if it will do as well if we get some really heavy rains. But, up until this last freeze, my cattle were pretty much refusing the stockpile and going for the green bur clover and winter grass. I think they have less choice now, so will find out when they get moved onto new ground in January if they will eat the stockpiled Klein there.

My guess is they go for all the native stuff first, though.

 

[Brute 23]

You haven't heard that from any one who actually understands how that grass works. They are just passing along old wives tales with no facts behind it.

No stockpiled grass can compete with new winter grass. That is common sense. That's like saying, they went to my oats patch instead of my stockpiled grass.

 

[rocfarm]

You haven't heard that from any one who actually understands how that grass works. They are just passing along old wives tales with no facts behind it.

No stockpiled grass can compete with new winter grass. That is common sense. That's like saying, they went to my oats patch instead of my stockpiled grass.

Definitely enjoying the firsthand learning experiences. Some have been tough, but all have at least been memorable.

 

[Rafter S]

Someone made a comment about Klein not stockpiling well back in this thread somewhere. I had good luck with it stockpiling this year. Had dry weather so that helps any summer grass stockpile better. Can't tell it did any different that the Bermuda in the same pasture. I wasn't able to get a picture that showed anything useful but my last patch of Klein I turned into yesterday was still standing up right in both places where it was thick and thin. As far as feed value I haven't tested it but the cows have been getting the same supplement of cubes sense I started grazing this place back the first of November.
Anyways long story short short as long as it doesn't snow down here those taller type bunch grasses seem to stockpile just fine.

I won't address stockpiling (stockpiling doesn't work for my little operation), but from watching it for 30+ years I do know that it handles cold weather better than any other warm season grass in my part of the country. Unless there's an early hard freeze it stays green when everything else has turned brown.

 

[rocfarm]

I won't address stockpiling (stockpiling doesn't work for my little operation), but from watching it for 30+ years I do know that it handles cold weather better than any other warm season grass in my part of the country. Unless there's an early hard freeze it stays green when everything else has turned brown.

Mine, too. Was still trying to put out green shoots on December 20th this year.

I really think the verdict is that, if you can add it to a mix of other grasses on your place, it can serve some good functions: decent forage in the hottest part of the year, quick recovery to large lbs of dry matter per acre with minimal rain, decent stockpiling ability, good longevity, and at least fair wildlife value.

Hope I haven't yet or won't make any mistakes to set mine back.

So far my observation is that, if you need to plant something, Klein would be in the top five or even top three to consider for dryland areas in central Texas.