Is fertilizing even needed?

[herofan]

I recently posted a question of how to revive a hay field that had not been fertilized or seeded for several years due to us not having any cattle. It had been mowed every year.

I know that most people fertilize every year, so I just naturally thought i needed to start fertilizing now that I wanted to use it for hay again. Surprisingly, however, it is still quite grassy, with a mix of Fescue, Orchard Grass, and a sprig of Timothy here and there. I'm sure it isn't as thick and won't yield as much as it would had it been handled with care the last few years, but it's not bad. The thing is, it produces more than enough hay, as is, for our 18 cows. A neighboring farmer said that due to it supplying enough and it being grassy, he wouldn't do anything to it. He said he wouldn't pump a bunch of money into it if it was already giving us what we needed.

Anyone agree?

 

[Hondac]

IMO you will eventually have to replace the nutrients being removed from the soil. Not saying this year but at some point.

 

[Anonymous]

Exactly. And your protein and Tdn levels will start dropping quick too

 

[TexasBred]

Exactly. And your protein and Tdn levels will start dropping quick too

About any ground with adequate topsoil will grow grass around here. Only thing it has no feed value unless it's fertilized. Just filler.

 

[Bigfoot]

Here in Ky I think it's necessary for hay ground. You can skip on pasture, but I would change where I cut my hay at every now and then. You might be surprised what early spring weed control will do for your grass

 

[Banjo]

I recently posted a question of how to revive a hay field that had not been fertilized or seeded for several years due to us not having any cattle. It had been mowed every year.

I know that most people fertilize every year, so I just naturally thought i needed to start fertilizing now that I wanted to use it for hay again. Surprisingly, however, it is still quite grassy, with a mix of Fescue, Orchard Grass, and a sprig of Timothy here and there. I'm sure it isn't as thick and won't yield as much as it would had it been handled with care the last few years, but it's not bad. The thing is, it produces more than enough hay, as is, for our 18 cows. A neighboring farmer said that due to it supplying enough and it being grassy, he wouldn't do anything to it. He said he wouldn't pump a bunch of money into it if it was already giving us what we needed.

Anyone agree?

You better go ahead and spend the money cause you might make too much money if you don't.

 

[skyhightree1]

Here in Ky I think it's necessary for hay ground. You can skip on pasture, but I would change where I cut my hay at every now and then. You might be surprised what early spring weed control will do for your grass

:clap: :nod: :nod:

 

[Deepsouth]

The only way to know is to do soil test.

 

[Dave]

Realizing that there are regional differences but with it being this late in the season it probably wouldn't pay to fertilize this year. But keep in mind that by harvesting hay you are removing nutrients. Those nutrients need to be replaced somehow. If you don't replace them both the quality and the amount of hay produced will suffer. Cutting grass and leaving it lay does not remove nutrients. Grazing removes some but not nearly what haying does. Most of the nutrients pass through the cow and are deposited back into the soil.

 

[TN Cattle Man]

The only way to know is to do soil test.

Agree!!

 

[TexasBred]

IMO you will eventually have to replace the nutrients being removed from the soil. Not saying this year but at some point.

Not a lot different than row cropping. You can take and take and take but every year you'll take less and less without some fertilizer. I fertilize even pasture. The cows need to make milk, breed back and put on weight.

 

[Anonymous]

Pulling calves to the barn is taking from the land. You gotta give it back to be sustainable

 

[skyhightree1]

IMO you will eventually have to replace the nutrients being removed from the soil. Not saying this year but at some point.

Not a lot different than row cropping. You can take and take and take but every year you'll take less and less without some fertilizer. quote]

I have taken on some fields a farmer had for 10 years planting beans year after year and let me tell u that soil was so poor without fertilizing and getting the lime right you will loose all the way around.He was getting 10 bushels of beans per acre. I was always taught " GO CHEAP- GO WRONG " so I always fertilize some no matter what. If you cant afford to do what the soil test says do some every little bit counts.

 

[Banjo]

If its been mowed every year the last couple of years then it has been fed nutrients...carbon. organic matter, etc. I have a small lot across the road that has only been bushhogged once or twice a year the last two years and it looks as good as any hay field in the county now.

 

[Banjo]

IMO you will eventually have to replace the nutrients being removed from the soil. Not saying this year but at some point.

Not a lot different than row cropping. You can take and take and take but every year you'll take less and less without some fertilizer. quote]

I have taken on some fields a farmer had for 10 years planting beans year after year and let me tell u that soil was so poor without fertilizing and getting the lime right you will loose all the way around.He was getting 10 bushels of beans per acre. I was always taught " GO CHEAP- GO WRONG " so I always fertilize some no matter what. If you cant afford to do what the soil test says do some every little bit counts.

Planting beans or any other rowcrop in the same place for ten years in a row is insane...must have rotation.

 

[TexasBred]

If its been mowed every year the last couple of years then it has been fed nutrients...carbon. organic matter, etc. I have a small lot across the road that has only been bushhogged once or twice a year the last two years and it looks as good as any hay field in the county now.

Yet you're putting back less and less each year even when you mow as the grass has no real value. Might as well be spreading sawdust on it. You're simply adding a little low quality organic matter.

 

[skyhightree1]

I agree which is why after ever crop I generally plant winter wheat then plant if i can help it something different after it.

 

[Rowdy]

Exactly. And your protein and Tdn levels will start dropping quick too

About any ground with adequate topsoil will grow grass around here. Only thing it has no feed value unless it's fertilized. Just filler.

Im back to asking questions

My thinking is that since most put out round bales and can't limit the quantity consumed, fertilizing grass to the poing of its protein % exceding the needs of cattle is wasteful? I realize it not only increases the quality but the quantity as well. And thats kinda where I have confusion. Why does my coastal meadow need to be 14%? if my cows can maintain on 10%? Is there a way to increase volume without increasing the quality per volume? I don't think so and it even sounds silly me asking that. The guy that bales for me was telling me he sent in some coastal to a hay test and it was 17% protein? Unless you can limit, this just seems pointless?

I noticed last December when I started putting out hay- that my cows started gaining weight like it was early summer. I don't need them to gain weight this time a year, yet I can't ration it out? I dont' think its good for them to go a day or days without eating to somehow average out their weekly intake. I don't really know what to do here to be the most efficient.

 

[Banjo]

If its been mowed every year the last couple of years then it has been fed nutrients...carbon. organic matter, etc. I have a small lot across the road that has only been bushhogged once or twice a year the last two years and it looks as good as any hay field in the county now.

Yet you're putting back less and less each year even when you mow as the grass has no real value. Might as well be spreading sawdust on it. You're simply adding a little low quality organic matter.

Do you fertilize your yard? The average yard around here don't get fertilized, don't need it, and still some people mow twice a week. If its only getting low quality organic matter, then why does it grow like crazy? It's because your feeding the ecosystem below the grass. Don't get me wrong fertilize does work...its the miracle of the 20th century but it stimulates biological activity at a very accelerated rate which breaksdown the humus in the soil too much.

 

[inyati13]

If its been mowed every year the last couple of years then it has been fed nutrients...carbon. organic matter, etc. I have a small lot across the road that has only been bushhogged once or twice a year the last two years and it looks as good as any hay field in the county now.

Yet you're putting back less and less each year even when you mow as the grass has no real value. Might as well be spreading sawdust on it. You're simply adding a little low quality organic matter.

Do you fertilize your yard? The average yard around here don't get fertilized, don't need it, and still some people mow twice a week. If its only getting low quality organic matter, then why does it grow like crazy? It's because your feeding the ecosystem below the grass. Don't get me wrong fertilize does work...its the miracle of the 20th century but it stimulates biological activity at a very accelerated rate which breaksdown the humus in the soil too much.

That being what it is, Banjo, if you are taking a crop from the land then it is like an equation: to keep it in balance you have to put something back. Hauling your hay from the field every year is the same as going out there and loading minerals including elemental N, C, K, Ca, P, selenium, etc in a loader bucket and dumping it on your neighbors farm. Eventually, for those elements to be in good supply they have to be replaced. A plant makes its own food (carbohydrates) via photosynthesis, but to build cell walls, plastids, mitochondria and to carry on cell metabolism it must have elements. That is what fertilizer does but even fertilizer is very limited as most of what we get is only N-P-K. Limestone is much more diverse since it is ground limestone which will contain other elements in addition to Ca. But make no mistake, land wears out if there is no replacement of elements. I am trying to rebuild hay fields on my farm where the elements have been removed by crops and leaching. Remember, the bedrock is the ultimate source of elements but it takes geologic time to oxidize and weather to make those elements usable by the plant.