fertilizing a small pasture

[northtexas10]

Hello,

I have 20 acres of coastal bermuda in North Texas that have been hayed hard and generally ignored by the previous owner. At least 25% weeds and lots of mesquite. Got a soil test which shows pH 5.7, N 0, Phos 8.

With today's prices, it will cost $2300 to replete N and Phos (I don't have a tractor so I have to pay extra to have it spread.) I didn't even ask about lime yet, but I assume that will cost even more $.

I am using rotational grazing and only have 2 cow-calf pairs at the moment - planning to increase stocking rate to around 7 cow-calf pairs.

Not planning to hay. I want to plant ryegrass in the fall, and I'll also spray the mesquite.

My co-op suggested Grazon, but I have fruit trees and don't want to go the kill everything route, if possible. I have a lot of clover in some areas (probably because the grass is so sparse.)

So questions ...

If I fertilize without a herbicide, is that just a waste of money? Will letting the land "rest" for a year help (since I have so few animals), or will this just make the weeds worse? Do I need to lime with a pH of 5.7?

Does anyone think fertilizer prices will go down next year?

I am new and trying to learn. Thanks so much!

 

[M.Magis]

First and foremost, you need lime. Adding fertilizer with a low pH is wasting money because some of that fertilizer isn't even available to the plant. I don't know about your area, but around here a pH of 5.7 usually calls for 2 tons of lime/acre, and several years/applications to get it up closer to 7. Spraying the weeds won't hurt anything in my mind, but improving the soil through lime and fertilizer can sometimes improve the grasses so much you no longer need to spray.

 

[BFE]

What M said. Also, your rotational grazing will help a lot. Especially try to keep them from picking it to death this winter. May let part go to seed and mow it tall, help reseed itself and then graze after some regrowth. Don't know much about Bermuda so I assume this would work.

 

[sstterry]

Lime should be cheaper (depending on your area) than fertilizer. Also, I would be cautious on using Grazon on areas that you plan to overseed because of its pre-emergent properties.

 

[northtexas10]

Thank you for your insight!

Would it be reasonable to lime this year and then fertilize next year?

Or lime and add something less than the recommended 55lb/ac N and 35lb/ac P?

 

[sstterry]

Thank you for your insight!

Would it be reasonable to lime this year and then fertilize next year?

Or lime and add something less than the recommended 55lb/ac N and 35lb/ac P?

If you lime now, without working it in, you will not see results until next spring (even if you work it in, it will be at least the fall to see results.) If it were me, I would lime now to get it to the proper PH and save the $$ for fertilizer next year. But that is just me.

 

[M.Magis]

I would do the same. Lime this year and HOPE fertilizer prices come down next year. I would also check pH again next spring and do another application if it calls for it.

 

[BC]

Your soil is on the borderline for needing lime for bermuda grass. 5.7 or 5.8 is the critical level. With just 2 pair, I would forego the fertilizer but would spray for weeds. Since you have some clover, consider using something like Weedmaster (2,4-D + banvel) after the clover has gone to seed (let the seed heads dry and when the seeds separate when you rub them between the palms of your hands, it is safe to spray). Weedmaster has no or very little residual so planting small seeded things this fall should be safe. It depends on how much mesquite you have on which control method to use (broadcast or individual plant treatment) and what herbicides to use. As to rotational grazing with bermuda, you want to be able to graze down to about 4 inch height and then rest that paddock for 24 to no more than 28 days.

 

[northtexas10]

What about mowing/bushhogging everything once in June? Would that help with the weeds?

 

[wbvs58]

I would do the lime as soon as possible to get it underway as it does take time. I would look to just adding the P fertiliser as it will get the clovers going and if they are well nodulated then they will improve your N level especially if you are just grazing.

Ken

 

[bird dog]

Do exactly what BC has layed out for you. Take it one step at a time. Get your weeds under control first. You might be surprised how much grass you have. Your mesquites are just now ready to spray. The leaves need to be dark green and the weather hot. 20 acres is a lot to spot spray but if you have a four wheeler and a 15 gallon spray tank, you can get it done pretty quick. Only mix about 10 gallons to start with. It goes pretty far. Use a surfactant. Sendero works well and doesn't require a license. Its expensive but goes a long way. Follow the instructions. Let the plants die completely before disturbing them. They will break off easily when dead.
I am doing a 7 acre pasture at the present time just by walking with a two gallon sprayer. I spray the whole bottle as far as it will go, wait a week, spray the ones I missed and start back where I left off. Its good exercise for an old man.

 

[BC]

What about mowing/bushhogging everything once in June? Would that help with the weeds?

What is your biggest weed problem? I have found that mowing is mostly cosmetic unless you do it more than once a year (especially if you have goat weed). From a cost stand point, spraying herbicide is usually cheaper than mowing and you said earlier that you did not have a tractor. There is a time and place for mowing. It is to get grass short enough to plant ryegrass and clover in the fall.

 

[1982vett]

How big are the mesquite?

What type of clover? In my opinion, clover is your friend.

Grazon doesn’t kill everything, glyphosate kills everything (at an appropriate rate). I wouldn’t use either. Sure, Grazon has a residual that works against the reseeding of your weeds, but it also hinders the reseeding of your desirable plants and plantings. I use a generic 2, 4-D. Sometimes I’ll use a mixture of Patriot and Remedy where use of 2, 4-D is restricted. I seem to get relatively good control of young mesquite this way.

This year I am going to try Sendero on my problem mesquite. Those that I’ve sprayed several years now without successfully killing them.

I’ve been running about a cow(pair) to 7 acres since 2012/13. I once used 18 tons of fertilizer a year running a cow to 3 acres plus cut enough hay to feed my own and sell enough hay to offset some of the fertilizer cost. At the time fertilizer was ~$250 a ton, not the $1000+ it is now. I haven’t put out a total of 18 tons over the last 7 or 8 years. Even with the erratic rainfall I have more forage than I need. I do not sell hay any more but do cut excess pasture for the hay I use and keep the barns mostly full.

My recommendation…no more than 4 cows/pair for a couple years. Then you can add another or two as the pastures recover. Rotate grazing and weed/mesquite control. If you can’t help yourself, a little fertilizer if you must. Leave the Agribusinessman’s playbook on the shelf. Their are still plenty of lemmings following it to keep him fat and happy.

Shredding, some will say it’s a wast of grass…but it does return unused forage (and weeds) to the soil. Also helps ryegrass and winter grasses get established.

It takes time to do it this way. Your not going to make a fortune with 4 cows, but your not spending one trying to run 7 either.

 

[tex452]

I have used granules for weed killer it worked well for me.
Check with fertilizer supplier they can put out both at the same time.
Mesquite is another matter.

 

[mdw]

I've been very disappointed with Sendero. I've had a lot of the plants I spray come back (and I wait until the leaves are dark green before I spray). Lately, I've been using Remedy in Diesel as a basal spray (it is a pain, but I think I get much better results). If anybody has some other thoughts, I'm all ears.

 

[mdw]

Also, anybody have thoughts about using dried, composted chicken manure this time of year?

 

[bird dog]

I agree Sendero is a disappointment. The old brush busters program where you used Remedy and Reclaim seemed to work much better.
I only mentioned Sendero because you don't have to have a license to buy where you do if you wanted Reclaim.

I complained about the lack of total kill to my Dow (Corteva) rep. He wouldn't admit its a problem of course but said add a little Remedy to the Sendero mix to make it a little "hotter". You might try that. Spot spraying with Diesel is a pain and you ruin a lot of clothes.

 

[coachg]

We have found 2 4D will get most weeds , not sure about mesquite, but will not kill your clover . Grazon will . You’ve got good advice on liming first and getting the pH where it needs to be .

 

[tex452]

Also, anybody have thoughts about using dried, composted chicken manure this time of year?

U can use it this time of year.
If it doesn’t rain you will lose nitrate but everything else will be there until it rains, plus if it was composted most of the nitrogen has already evaporated.

 

[northtexas10]

Thank you all for the great advice. I'll call about the lime and see what prices I get.