i hate this tree with a passion, HONEY LOCUSTS SOLUTION

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I frilled and sprayed this weekend. I didn't get Remedy ordered so went ahead and bought some Crossbow. I mixed 2/3 Crossbow with 1/3 Diesel Fuel. Frilled and sprayed good. The smaller ones I simply sprayed the foliage and truck. Hopefully come spring I will have a couple of large Honey Locust's dead and ready to cut down. Do they make good firewood? Might be a pain to remove the trunk thorns though.
 
If they are like regular locust they are very hard wood. I'm going to clean mine up a limb at a time as they fall. Assuming they die. I did 3 parts remedy 1 part diesal. I had a lot more trees than I thought to.
 
Goodlife":3edv0f01 said:
I frilled and sprayed this weekend. I didn't get Remedy ordered so went ahead and bought some Crossbow. I mixed 2/3 Crossbow with 1/3 Diesel Fuel. Frilled and sprayed good. The smaller ones I simply sprayed the foliage and truck. Hopefully come spring I will have a couple of large Honey Locust's dead and ready to cut down. Do they make good firewood? Might be a pain to remove the trunk thorns though.
Spraying the foliage is awaste of chemicals and diesel. 99% of the time the leaves will burn off and the tree doesn;t get enough chemical absorbed to accomplish anything.
 
dun":3pipcrow said:
Goodlife":3pipcrow said:
I frilled and sprayed this weekend. I didn't get Remedy ordered so went ahead and bought some Crossbow. I mixed 2/3 Crossbow with 1/3 Diesel Fuel. Frilled and sprayed good. The smaller ones I simply sprayed the foliage and truck. Hopefully come spring I will have a couple of large Honey Locust's dead and ready to cut down. Do they make good firewood? Might be a pain to remove the trunk thorns though.
Spraying the foliage is awaste of chemicals and diesel. 99% of the time the leaves will burn off and the tree doesn;t get enough chemical absorbed to accomplish anything.

Depends.
(again, I don't know about locust) but for my invasives, it does work on medium size trees at this time of year only.
Sap is beginning to drop and it will carry "some" of the herbicide down to the trunk and roots with it. Frilling the trunk, it carries a lot more to the root system. Spraying foliage in spring or summer--yes--a total waste.
 
I must have done something wrong. Maybe 9 out of every 10 trees that I sprayed, including the ones I frilled leafed out this spring. Several put out a considerably smaller number of leaves, but they are not dead.
 
Like all systemic types of herbicides the plant has to be activly groing for it to work. Now that it's growing again there may be enough residual from the deisel/remedy on the bark to still work. But I would do them again
 
Mine too. I did the basal spray and it is growing back. Should I put some marks in the trunk? It sure killed the cedars and wild rose :) :clap:
 
Fire Sweep Ranch":ncsb0axi said:
Mine too. I did the basal spray and it is growing back. Should I put some marks in the trunk? It sure killed the cedars and wild rose :) :clap:
All of them I've killed I just soaked the trunk in a 6" band all the way around them and they died. With the little guys I just sprayed the whole trunk.
 
I had several that i cut down while they were leafed out . Piled them together when they were cut down. My thoughts were moving tree while green would be less spreading of thorns . Then used tordon and painted the stump . Good results on no regrowth . good luck rj
 
Well as a guitar maker, locust (both black and honey) make excellent acoustic guitars.... so if you were in my area, I'd "remove" them for you :)

Second point; Last year I tried a new concoction on china ball trees. I cut them down with a chainsaw, then immediately saturate the stump with 24D. This has worked GREAT! Once the stump sucks in the chemical, which it will once cut, the stump will not grow back, and will actually start to decompose. I never thought I could beat tallow/china ball trees, but the above method works. You have to apply the 24D immediately after the tree is cut. I have a hired hand follow me with the mule when I'm bush hogging and spray the smaller tree stumps (around 1" or so). My pastures are slowly clearing up. This is labor intensive, and you need to be very careful with 24D application, ofcourse...... works best in spring or summer.
 
Bigfoot":3hk2h7u1 said:
I must have done something wrong. Maybe 9 out of every 10 trees that I sprayed, including the ones I frilled leafed out this spring. Several put out a considerably smaller number of leaves, but they are not dead.
How are you frilling them? The cut should be a single cut, or a combination of single cuts around the trunk about waist high. Cut into the vascular part of the tree, but not thru it, especially is you make a continuous cut. Do NOT make 2-4 frills, each above the other. To kill it, the vascular system has to ba able to still function enough to carry the herbicide to the roots. Cutting a bunch of frills prevents the herbicide from being carried either up or down. This, from a National Forest worker that was out at my place one day, and they've frilled and killed thousands of invasives in the forest surronding my place. I am not a big fan of a continuous frill either. Leave a little space between each cut, and the herbicide will penetrate into the remaining vascular and be carried to the roots and to the top of the tree. The tree is continually sending nutrients and water from the roots upward and waste back down--think of it like your own blood system--some veins and arterys are pumping blood from the heart--others returning. I frilled trees last fall, and I am continuously having to move the fallen ones off fences and roadways now.

frill.jpg


If the tree has a rough thick bark, IMO, basal applications are a waste of time and and herbicide. Bark is just too thick for the herbicide and diesel to penetrate.

Unless it is a very young and small tree, I do not care for foliar apps either.
As Dun said, foliar applications often just burn the leaves off and you think you killed it, but next spring (or even in a few weeks after application) the tree just grows new ones because the leaves with the herbicide on them simply fell off.
I'll take some pics of frill that worked, and one that I did when I first started learning that did not work.

It's not just a matter of whether the tree is actively growing--it must be growing and producing new foliage. If conditions are extremely dry, the tree is able to move only enough nutrients and water from the ground to stay alive. It may be nice and green and appear to be growing, but the vascular system really isn't doing much in dry weather--not enough to move much herbicide where you need it.
I have had my best luck in the fall as far as frilling goes, right before the leaves start to turn. Most of the vascular activity is in a downward movement, and going to the roots. Most trees still have root activity in fall and winter--they are growing and storing energy. That's why herbicide labels say you can do cut stump application at any time during the year, but do it immediately after cutting the tree. The open vasculars of the saw cut will carry the herbicide right down, but if you wait very long at all, sap will ooze out and seal the stump off. That is true for all seasons. It is a protective mechanism the tree has, just as our bodies scab over a wound.
I'll get some pics up tomorrow, but they will be Chinese Tallow--not locust. Locust does not grow well here on my property--PH is way too low.
 
greybeard, bigfoot, dun and others:

I would really like to see pictures of the frilling and applications you have done. We recently bought a large piece of land that has about 15 acres of brushy thicket which has honey locust in it. The biggest I have seen so far is only about 5" thick. I suspect that there is a big mother honey locust somewhere in the jungle that we have not found yet. We plan to bush hog pathways where we can but I want to kill those honey locust trees. We have pesticide and herbicide applicators license . Please please please post some pictures of the whole process.
 
Will post some later today--gonna be busy till late this afternoon, but here are some I frill cut late last fall just before the leaves turned colors.
I cut 3 slashes into them about waist or knee high, and with an old one gallon pesticide spray jug, squirted about 1-2 oz of 25%-75% Remedy/diesel solution mix into each slash. I made the slashes with a hatchet.
I did the ones on the right side of the ditch, but not the ones on the left side.
cowsandtallow012.jpg


One that died during the winter and fell down--you can see the slash marks from the hatchet.
cowsandtallow017.jpg


This is the very first tree I tried this method on and this is how NOT to do it. I made slashes all over the place, and it took 3 years for it to finally die. Make a series of slashes all around the circumference, but all in a line--not several one above the other.
cowsandtallow002.jpg


This is a tree I cut down about 5 years ago, and it sprouted multi trees from the stump--these are the hardest to deal with. I actually made a ring around each trunk with a chainsaw in this case, and then squirted the remedy/diesel mix in. Graveyard dead.
cowsandtallow005.jpg


Another. The slashes are visible at the bottom of the bare area. Bark fell off when the tree died.
cowsandtallow022.jpg


This, is what I use: You need a jug and squirt nozzle that can handle the diesel. A Walmart type squirt bottle will start leaking right off the bat, so choose one that has been used for petroleum based products or get one that is rated for it. One hatchet (or machete) and one squirt bottle. That's it.
BE PATIENT!! Let the tree die--it takes some time for the herbicide to make it down and kill the roots. I have had ZERO luck doing this in spring and summer. Yes, the leaves will turn fall colrs and fall off, but the roots live on if done in spring and summer. That, is because most of the action in the vascular system of the tree is moving up--not down. I know that BrushBusters and herbicide labels say to do this when the trees and plants are actively growing, but that has not been successful for me with sweetgum and Chinese Tallow. 2 different State foresters told me they never treat invasives in spring or early summer--a waste of their time and resources.
For little saplings less than 3' tall, foliar spraying does work, but with little tallow and gum trees (using Remedy and 2,4-d) you will get only about 70% real kill rate, meaning 30 out of every 100 little trees will come back next year. You just have to keep at it with those.

No matter what you do, avoid the temptation of cutting one completely down when the leaves fall off. It takes time, whether foliar spraying or hacking and squirting, for the herbicide to get down to the roots--at least a couple of months.

IF you chose to cut a tree down--Cut stumps--spray them within 1 hr of cutting the tree down. Sap forms on top of the stump and prevents absorption of the herbicide.
Again--I have NO experience with Honey Locust--just Yaupon, fennel, gum and Chinese tallow. Yaupon is an evergreen and takes a LOOONG time to kill.
Foliar spray, I mix 1qt Remedy, 1 qt 2,4-d, and 1 pt of surfactant to 100 gals of water.
There are propbably better herbicides out there, but they are restricted use and I have to be very careful what I use because of the wetands I have and being next to a National Forest on 3 sides. I do not have an applicators lic, so cannot buy anything with picloram and wouldn't use it anyway.



Gotta run.
 
Apparanlty what you all call frilling We call girdling. Serves the same purpose but I don;t squirt anything on them. Just cut through the bark all the way around twice about 4-6 inches apart. Haven;t had anything survive. What is weird to me is if you cut a tree and leave the stump it will send up new growth from the stump. Girdled and it dies and nothing regrows.
 
Girdling generally means you go all the way around--leaving no gaps between cuts. With frilling, it is not neccesary to go all the way around and isn't even desirable. Girdling may work with locust, but will not with tallow and most gums unless herbicide is applied to the girdle cut--they are a soft wood and have a very thick sapwood or vascular phloem cross-section. You would have to girdle almost all the way to heartwood to kill a tallow, and most of the time, it will still live--same with a sweet gum. The trick is to cut thru the outer bark, and cambium, and just barely into the vascular phloem, where energy is moved up and down the trunk. The diesel is a penetrant and carries the herbicide into the full width of the vascular section.
 
greybeard":3aeh0qbv said:
Girdling generally means you go all the way around--leaving no gaps between cuts. With frilling, it is not neccesary to go all the way around and isn't even desirable. Girdling may work with locust, but will not with tallow and most gums unless herbicide is applied to the girdle cut--they are a soft wood and have a very thick sapwood or vascular phloem cross-section. You would have to girdle almost all the way to heartwood to kill a tallow, and most of the time, it will still live--same with a sweet gum. The trick is to cut thru the outer bark, and cambium, and just barely into the vascular phloem, where energy is moved up and down the trunk. The diesel is a penetrant and carries the herbicide into the full width of the vascular section.
Mostly all we have around here are elm, sycamore, oak, locust, hickory and cedar. Got other stuff but generally it's desireable to leave it alone.
 
greybeard - thank you SO VERY MUCH for posting those pictures! There is about 15 or 20 acres that has gotten brushy from the prior owner, and is down near a big creek. I have a large number of honey locusts there.....more like clusters of them in islands. Small babies are in random locations all over the place (probably from animals eating seed pods and dispersing them). We need to bush hog the brushy areas now, because there is a lot of berry vines and small brush. We will try to mow around the larger trees. If I come behind the bush hog and spray everything with remedy and grazon next, I'm hoping that will kill the small ones? Then, this fall, I can plot my strategy to address the larger ones.

Will a backhoe or bulldozer be effective against honey locust?
 
Greybeard,

The qt remedy, qt 2,4 d, pint of surfactant mixed in 100 gallons. Is that a spot spray, or do you spray the whole pasture with it?
 
Whole pasture and I'll post pics tomorrow of the results of using that mix rate on about 10,000 small chinese tallow--4-10" tall, with a mix of goatweed and some other big broadleaf plant I am not sure what is. A single pass, about 4 mph with a boomless setup.
If I miss some (and I do) I just go back a few days later and use the wand I have on my pasture sprayer.
(again, I don't presume to infer this method will work on anything other than tallow, goatweed and gum trees--and gum trees are more difficult to kill and take longer to die than anything else.)

A pic I took back in April, showing growing tallows:
cowsandtallow015.jpg


The wing dam of my pond with growing tallow in April--I had to use my wand on all these due to the close proximity of water--I just don't like using the broad area nozzles here and getting herbicide in my pond or in anything that can run off into the river.
cowsandtallow043.jpg


I will take pics tomorrow from the same vantage point after spraying within the last week or 2.
I have quite a few of these--we call them Senna Beans. When they get big, they are a bear to kill and they drop beans like crazy. Took this pic the afternoon after spraying that morning. Look close, you can see the blue dye from my broadcast sprayer still visible, but it is already wilted and dying.
spray005.jpg


Taken the same day, wilting tallowfrom that morning's spraying:
spray001.jpg




Same area--dog fennel, goatweed, french mulberry, and tallow wlting:
spray002.jpg




Wish I could use Grazon or some of the other chemicals but just can't.

And for beginners--PLEASE, wear long sleeves, gloves, something on your head. I wear a hardhat, with a towel draped over my neck, rubber chem gloves, and always a long sleeve shirt. If I'm in wind and using the wand, I also wear a full face plastic face shield that I normally use when using a grinder. Remedy and 2,4d aren't terribly toxic, but if you do a lot of spraying, you just can't be too careful IMO, especially if your tractor doesn't have a cab (mine does not).
 
How many ounces of remedy, and 2,4 d do you estimate that that you are applying per acre?
 

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