Hybird Vigor

[sedrick_hall]

If I had a herd of Brangus cows and I ran 2 bulls (Black Angus & Hereford) which calves would exhibit the most hybird vigor, the Angus or the Hereford sired calves? The Angus sired calves would be 3/4 Angus & 1/4 Brahman and the Hereford sired calves would be 1/2 Hereford 5/16 Angus 3/16 Brahman.

 

[KMacGinley]

Since Hybrid Vigor is dependent on different breed's genes coming together, I would go with the hereford as the answer to your question.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

good question, im going with the hereford sired calves

 

[smuff76]

if your wanting to maximize hybrid vigor then you would probably want to go with a continental breed like Gelbvieh or Lim.

 

[dun]

The Hereford sire, When A breed is reintroduced into a cross there is something about recombining regression.

 

[sedrick_hall]

The Hereford sire, When A breed is reintroduced into a cross there is something about recombining regression.

Dun what exactly is recombining regression?

 

[dun]

The Hereford sire, When A breed is reintroduced into a cross there is something about recombining regression.

Dun what exactly is recombining regression?

It has to do with a reduction of heterosis as the percentage of one breed becomes dominant. If I can find it I'll post a link to the studys on heterosis that talk about it. It's similar to the results of F2s having less heterosis then F1s

 

[dun]

Here's one link:

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare ... 150web.pdf

 

[ALACOWMAN]

It's sorta like breeding backward toward one of the original breeds after the first cross. that are homozygous for certain traits. losing that initial bang of too breeds that compliment each other

 

[oakcreekfarms]

A little off topic but did anyone watch the dietler brothers auction. Those crossbred heifers had twice the muscle and depth as the straight angus. Those simangus were beautiful animals and I wish i could have put a few in a commercial herd. Maybe someday.

I have tried reading up on heterosis because i wish one day to take over my grandfathers herd. he runs straight black angus or angus source cows on angus bulls. I have tried doing some research on how to maximize profit in a straight terminal herd without dealing with birthing issues. I have thought about crossing those angus with herefords to maintain an efficient cow herd with good mommas and then breeding back to limi bulls. I guess I am thinking that because I raise herefords and my cousin raises limis, and the angus stock is already there. I think by maintaining a british cow herd then breeding back to cont. sires I will be able to maximize heterosis. Am I thinking in the right direction

 

[dun]

Am I thinking in the right direction

Yes

 

[Bluestem]

I'm no expert at this. But I think your on the right track. With an eye to the future, I would also consider making the cross terminal.

 

[Sage]

The Hereford sired cales should exibit the highest heterisis(hybrid vigor). The Bos Taurus/Bos indicus cross that you have with both breeding groups is about as good as you can do (better than british/cont. crosses) for heterosis. Introdicing the third breed(Hereford) will only increase heterosis. To max heterosis Smuff is exactly right, use a cont bull in place of one of the British breeds.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

The reason I wanted the first cross to be british base was because that is where I would get my first generation from. They would be replacements, then after that the rest would be terminal for a few years.

 

[Avalon]

Somebody straiten me out. I thought that maximum heterosis was attained on the first cross. I would assume that since most American breeds are composites, that you would be losing that Hybrid Vigor that the new breed such as the Brangus had allready attained. Not saying that that these crosses would'nt work. Or they wouldnt have such a thing as Brangus Plus. But I would still think you are losing heterosis. But then again I'm a breed purest who thinks that F1 should be a max unless the offspring (F2's) are terminal.
Just my opinions, so some of you guys straighten me out.
My apologies if i somwhat hijacked the thread.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

:hat:

 

[Ned Jr.]

The reason I wanted the first cross to be british base was because that is where I would get my first generation from. They would be replacements, then after that the rest would be terminal for a few years.

I think this cross would be the ultimate also. But the problem I always run into is how to maintain a supply of those first cross black baldy females? Maybe between your herd, your cousins, and your grandpa's you could figure out away.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Somebody straiten me out. I thought that maximum heterosis was attained on the first cross. I would assume that since most American breeds are composites, that you would be losing that Hybrid Vigor that the new breed such as the Brangus had allready attained. Not saying that that these crosses would'nt work. Or they wouldnt have such a thing as Brangus Plus. But I would still think you are losing heterosis. But then again I'm a breed purest who thinks that F1 should be a max unless the offspring (F2's) are terminal.
Just my opinions, so some of you guys straighten me out.
My apologies if i somwhat hijacked the thread.

the offsprings will be a 3rd cross to max out the heterosis. not a f2 ...unless you breed two f1s together to produce a f2 but usually they aint used for a terminal calf

 

[dun]

Somebody straiten me out. I thought that maximum heterosis was attained on the first cross. I would assume that since most American breeds are composites, that you would be losing that Hybrid Vigor that the new breed such as the Brangus had allready attained. Not saying that that these crosses would'nt work. Or they wouldnt have such a thing as Brangus Plus. But I would still think you are losing heterosis. But then again I'm a breed purest who thinks that F1 should be a max unless the offspring (F2's) are terminal.
Just my opinions, so some of you guys straighten me out.
My apologies if i somwhat hijacked the thread.

the offsprings will be a 3rd cross to max out the heterosis. not a f2 ...unless you breed two f1s together to produce a f2 but usually they aint used for a terminal calf

The F2s probably wouldn;t be terminal since the F1 cross that produced the parents were bred. A terminal cross by definition is the end of the crossing.
Breed1 X Breed2 = F1 1/2 breed1 1/2 breed2
F1 X F1 = F2 1/2 breed1 1/2 breed2
The composit breeds, sometimes called American breeds, once the traits are fixed will have less heterosis, more like any single pure breed.

 

[Sage]

Oakcreek sounds like a good plan retaining the british cross for the cow herd and using a third breed for terminal breeding.

Alacowman, yes the F1 first cross has the most heterosis and works great for the cow herd but you need to breed them to somthing, going back on one of the original breeds would lower your heterosis. This is where a third breed as a terminal cross gives you a little bonus. It gets kinda complicated if the 3 breed crosses are kept for replacements, I'm not saying that they won't make good caows depending on the selected breeds but retaining a high level of heterosis is complicated, too many breeds of bulls on the place and too many breeding pastures.