Most cattle breeders have idiosyncrasies on what they will or will not tolerate from the animals in their herds. It might be growth, condition, udders, disposition, or even simple color markings. I think for me I will tolerate "some" attitude as long as the animal keeps easy and raises a decent calf. I won't tolerate a non functional udder, although I have some borderline ones which keep them on my "first to go" list! I also won't tolerate an animal who thinks the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence (bull or cow)! How about y'all?
How much do you tolerate?
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Caustic Burno
Well-known member
1848":hjovtors said:
I will not play that get out game that is a one way ticket to the salebarn. I cull hard for udders and dispostion also. I messed around with some Angus a few years back I bought 4 registered girls looked good, I was standing at the barn told the boy go tell the neighbor some of his cows were out, got to lookin and they were mine. So I made a guy over near Crockett a good deal on some more girls to go in his herd. I will tolerate a lot more from a F-1 or Brangus than I would a Hereford or Brammer a calm f-1 could be considered a nut herf.
Cow must produce a live healthy calf every 12 months and put an average of 100 pounds a month on the calf on grass.
To qoute Craig a member that is not on much any more, this is one I have stuck in my litle pea brain as one of the best.
" If the cow can not perform on my grass or hay I am changing the cow not the grass or hay". This is about what performs and produces in your enviroment and finding the right animal.
So after the rambling
1 Disposition
2 Lack of Productivity with efficiency( easy keeper)
3 Udders and feet ( feet due to the wet enviroment some can't hang)
Caustic Burno":dkg4gl6y said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Now thats funny
Caustic Burno":dkg4gl6y said:
Excellent advice!
P.S. I doubt we will get to see anything much different then this criteria unless there are some brave ones out there!
(meaning those who would cull for EPD's when the animal is doing eveerything else right) ;-)
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Like we said an EPD is a tool, cattle perform in the pasture not on paper. You can grow anything out of a sack everthing looks pretty fat but a woman and a dog.
One of the things I see about the guy that wants to run a few cows or the partimer is they think they can understand epd's.
They are numbers this is math I can compare numbers add an subtract this has to be a good thing. Math got us to the moon right also killed a lot along the way with mathamatical errors which is a common mistake by the new guy. great bull on the wrong set of cows.
You can never replace common sense or practical experience, I believe it is important to get a mentor that will knock you in the head and tell you the truth it's the only way you can improve. Like the old saying good judgement comes from a lot of bad experience's. This board is huge and you have people operating in vastly different enviroments requiring vastly different things.
But the one common thing is a good cow is a good cow no matter where they are located, a bad cow is a bad cow.
One of the things I see about the guy that wants to run a few cows or the partimer is they think they can understand epd's.
They are numbers this is math I can compare numbers add an subtract this has to be a good thing. Math got us to the moon right also killed a lot along the way with mathamatical errors which is a common mistake by the new guy. great bull on the wrong set of cows.
You can never replace common sense or practical experience, I believe it is important to get a mentor that will knock you in the head and tell you the truth it's the only way you can improve. Like the old saying good judgement comes from a lot of bad experience's. This board is huge and you have people operating in vastly different enviroments requiring vastly different things.
But the one common thing is a good cow is a good cow no matter where they are located, a bad cow is a bad cow.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
1848":1hf5js7d said:Surely you wouldn't jest and think we should put common sense to use
and....I saw a pretty fat women
Hmmmmm 51 hits and not responses! :shock:
You really didn't expect a lot did you?
Heck can't have bad cow's with epd's got the numbers to prove it right here on this piece of toliet paper.
Caustic Burno":31vs044e said:1848":31vs044e said:Surely you wouldn't jest and think we should put common sense to use
and....I saw a pretty fat women
Hmmmmm 51 hits and not responses! :shock:
You really didn't expect a lot did you?
Heck can't have bad cow's with epd's got the numbers to prove it right here on this piece of toliet paper.
:lol: :lol:
randiliana
Well-known member
I will "tolerate" nearly everything, up to a point, except disposition. If we have an animal that I don't trust, she is gone, period. Headshaking is one thing, but if they do more than that they are gone. Plus we have kids, and I won't take a chance with them. Most cows don't understand "little people" so why take a chance with a dangerous one. After attitude, we cull on productivity, condition, and udders/feet
andybob
Well-known member
Temperament,docile and easy to work.
Fertility; a calf a year, or she goes to pay the bills.
Mothering ability; If she doesn't raise the calf-SHE pays the bills.
Good udders, milking ability; must raise an acceptable weaner, her udder must remain functional throughout her breeding life.
Adaptable; must function in their environment with minimal supplimentation.
Ease of calving,and a calf that is up and active.
Pretty much what all the other breeders are looking for!
Fertility; a calf a year, or she goes to pay the bills.
Mothering ability; If she doesn't raise the calf-SHE pays the bills.
Good udders, milking ability; must raise an acceptable weaner, her udder must remain functional throughout her breeding life.
Adaptable; must function in their environment with minimal supplimentation.
Ease of calving,and a calf that is up and active.
Pretty much what all the other breeders are looking for!
Isn't it funny that no one is culling for EPD's or perhaps even pedigree...or is it that no one would admit to culling for them. :shock: So how much do EPD's really weigh when it "really" comes to what a good functional animal is? Aren't EPD's suppose to to help identify the good'ns with all the ecomically important traits? I am being facetious here. Pedigree would come into play assuming you are a seedstock breeder and you are selecting for proven genetics right? Does that mean you should just cull the animal right away based on the pedigree? Just food for thought.
:shock: So how much do EPD's really weigh when it "really" comes to what a good functional animal is? Aren't EPD's suppose to to help identify the good'ns with all the ecomically important traits? I am being facetious here. Pedigree would come into play assuming you are a seedstock breeder and you are selecting for proven genetics right? Does that mean you should just cull the animal right away based on the pedigree? Just food for thought.
TheBullLady
Well-known member
? How can you cull for pedigree? Assuming you have the cow in your herd.. and have already chosen the sire based on EPD's and pedigree.. wouldn't that mean the progeny's EPD's and pedigree is already determined?
alacattleman
Well-known member
you know the temperment on brahman F1S will mellow out after the 2nd calve in most cases. so dealing with young heifers you have too know the difference in stupid and what is vigor.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
1848- In considering the question as to what one would cull, I don't think it is unusual that EPD's are not being mentioned because, as has been reiterated many times on these posts, EPD's and their use as a selection TOOL (and the OPERATIVE word here is TOOL), should always be used in conjunction with Phenotype (what the individual LOOKS like), and in the discussion at hand it is my impression that we are talking about cows (primarily) which are already part of the breeding herd, and one's which have been observed for a period of time. Of course, if I were considering purchasing either a Bull or a Female, and the traits which have been mentioned previously were in evidence, EPD's would take a back door! It would be, "Sayonara Cow-a-bunga!" Bye-bye!1848":l9ws9kuk said:Isn't it funny that no one is culling for EPD's or perhaps even pedigree...or is it that no one would admit to culling for them.
DOC HARRIS
Kent
Well-known member
I have electric fences, and I will not tolerate a fence jumper. Too many cows out there that will stay in for me to put up with one that won't. Of course, regular production goes without saying. I will not keep a bull out of any cow with a known bad udder in her pedigree. I will keep a cow with a subpar udder as long as it's not a problem for the calf to nurse. Don't have problems with disposition at all. I culled them out long ago and raise my own heifers. Any heifers with a gleam in their eye don't stay past weaning.
DOC HARRIS":3po8xcav said:
Thanks Doc, you confirmed exactly what I was trying to convey. There is allot of talk on here about EPD this and EPD that. WHen someone shows a picture of an animal on the board it seems the recomendations are to always buy the better EPD'd animal despite the other choices (with worse EPD's) having a better phenotype or more productive parents which may just have poor EPD"s. Realistically, most people will put EPD's low on the list when it comes to culling. Breeders can talk the talk, but it is different when you pick cows to walk the walk!
As far as culling for pedigree? If you jump on a set of daughters because their sire won National GC, and three years later they havn't done squat, or that sire has gone by the wayside due to terrible udders in his daughters, no milk or for whatever reason then you will be culling for the pedigree. Large purebred operations do this all the time. They just offer them up in their sales as "daughters of the Nat. GC".. ;-)
. In purebred herds cattle are culled for pedigree all the time...sometimes it just takes time to know they need culling! That's the consequences of what happens when you chase the latest and greatest every year.Bull Lady,
Here you go right here. An example which could "possibly" be a pedigree issue which will have to be weighed in the future.
This was under Breeding Calving Issues - Author: Roger/OH
As stated before, all our cows have calved in the pasture in the past and I didn't worry much about them. This one is ny grandson's show heifer........First time hiefer and she is 80% new genetics from the rest of the herd. I have no past to go on.
Here you go right here. An example which could "possibly" be a pedigree issue which will have to be weighed in the future.
This was under Breeding Calving Issues - Author: Roger/OH
As stated before, all our cows have calved in the pasture in the past and I didn't worry much about them. This one is ny grandson's show heifer........First time hiefer and she is 80% new genetics from the rest of the herd. I have no past to go on.
aplusmnt
Well-known member
I culled a cow once and then half my operation was gone. But still smartest thing I did.
1. Disposition
2. Can not catch! Hate when I can not catch a cow in a pen. Or a horse / mule for that matter
But still smartest thing I did. 1. Disposition
2. Can not catch! Hate when I can not catch a cow in a pen. Or a horse / mule for that matter
Victoria
Well-known member
Things that we won't put up with include:
1) Bad Disposition. We cull hard on this one.
2) The ones that end up on the wrong side of the fence and we don't have the fantastic fences like I read about on here. Most of our fences are 4 strands of barbed wire. No electric fences. They want to live somewhere else we are happy to oblige.
3) Poor performance
4) Dead calf - The rule is we get money that year from either the cow or the calf. This rule has been broken for a couple of really odd circumstances where death had nothing to do with the cow.
5) Udder/Feet problems
I guess it is about the same for everyone.
1) Bad Disposition. We cull hard on this one.
2) The ones that end up on the wrong side of the fence and we don't have the fantastic fences like I read about on here. Most of our fences are 4 strands of barbed wire. No electric fences. They want to live somewhere else we are happy to oblige.
3) Poor performance
4) Dead calf - The rule is we get money that year from either the cow or the calf. This rule has been broken for a couple of really odd circumstances where death had nothing to do with the cow.
5) Udder/Feet problems
I guess it is about the same for everyone.
