How much are red baldies worth?

[Tod Dague]

Not if they're black Angus parents. No real Angus should carry the red gene.

Even if they are black Angus parents. I believe the key would you used was "should". You said alot with that one statement.

 

[Tod Dague]

Even if they're commercial, black cattle, yes, I can make the argument that there will be a difference between a black calf and a red calf born to the same parents. Most of us have bothers and sisters. Are we all the same? No. Some are taller, some are smarter, some just think they're smarter , some are athletic, some are nerds. Cows and bulls don't have the same calf with every breeding. It will depend on your definition of the best calf. If you think the calf that brings you the most money at the sale barn is best, then probably the black one is "best." If you like to look at red cattle, then the red one might be "best" in your eye. I think most of us let the buyers sort our the "best" animal when they bid.

Angus breeders report all the data they want to report. Here we report everything as do many other breeders. Some don't report anything, and I think they're making a mistake. If they don't report data on their heifer's calves, those calves won't have EPDs. Angus without EPDs are sold at commercial cattle prices in purebred sales that I've attended. So it's in the breeder's best interest to report the data into the AHIR program.

Come on, TOD, you know that there's nothing really to force Red Angus people to report ALL their data. Like any other breed, they can claim a calf died or lie about weights or anything else they want to manipulate the data. Unless the Red Angus Assn has someone out weighing every calf, watching every breeding, your data is no better than my data....and I got a lot more.

Several breeds include Angus in their breeding programs. Why not Red Angus?

We were arguing the fact that one butcher was saying that the black calves from the same herd were marbling better than the reds. So do you think there is a link between the color gene and marbling you still haven't answerd that?

Then you went on a tangent saying that you cant get a red calf out of black parents. Then when your grade school genetics kicked in you changed it to Black Angus parents and you were wrong again. :? You seem to be having a hard time staying on track.

What breeds include Angus in their breeding programs that don't include Red Angus?

 

[hillsdown]

Not if they're black Angus parents. No real Angus should carry the red gene.

Even if they are black Angus parents. I believe the key would you used was "should". You said alot with that one statement.

"At Kinnaird castle the family of Charles Carnegie bred polled Angus from 1805 on and reported a pure red cow. In this same book, the authors discuss observations made in 1882:"In most herds one or two red calves had appeared , but a brindled calf was rarely dropped. But while these colors are unpopular ,it should be remembered that they do not denote impurity."

I guess the great Carnegie herd was not real Angus... :lol2:

 

[cfpinz]

For the record Frankie:

I have absolutely NOTHING against Black Angus or those who raise them. I am actually planning on using some Blk Angus semen this year on a couple of my Gelbvieh cows.

What I detest is Bu--sh--. It's insulting to me and almost everyone on this forum some of the bs that gets disseminated re, the Blk Angus breed and CAB in general. I applaud the marketing genius it took to invent CAB and the work that goes into promoting it in general. Anything that puts beef in the forefront is a good thing. Buttttttttt saying that a red calf out of two blk parents is somehow genetically inferior to a blk calf out of the same parents is just plain silly, all the other genetic markers besides hide color still exist and to ask inteligent informed people here to believe otherwise is just plain nuts. Please explain to me how a Tootsie Roll in a red package is different than one in a blk package.

Well that's my rant for the day, I'm done.

Lock er down :cowboy:

Well said.

I'd say there's more folks here that share that same opinion than one would imagine, I do.

The majority of my cattle are angus-influenced. Do I think they're better, no. They're just the easiest to make money off of in this area. When that fad passes I'll have fewer angus, at least fewer black ones anyways.

 

[brandonm_13]

Well, I didn't expect to find this kind of post after the weekend break. But since it has gone this way, I think I should throw in my two cents.

When the Angus breed started, someONE made the decision that black was the "right" color. Now, because of that, we have black angus cows and red angus cows. While most people call black angus simply angus, there is nothing wrong with using the descriptive term "black."

Oddly enough, we would not have this discussion if someone said the right color was red, because all angus would then be red, NO BLACK AT ALL(unless there was a mutation somewhere). If the color chosen was red, I could not cast blame anymore than I could for saying it was black. It was just a choice. I made a choice to drive my Sport Trac to work today instead of my F-150. Doesn't mean that Sport Trac's are better. It just means I made a choice.

 

[3waycross]

Well, I didn't expect to find this kind of post after the weekend break. But since it has gone this way, I think I should throw in my two cents.

When the Angus breed started, someONE made the decision that black was the "right" color. Now, because of that, we have black angus cows and red angus cows. While most people call black angus simply angus, there is nothing wrong with using the descriptive term "black."

Oddly enough, we would not have this discussion if someone said the right color was red, because all angus would then be red, NO BLACK AT ALL(unless there was a mutation somewhere). If the color chosen was red, I could not cast blame anymore than I could for saying it was black. It was just a choice. I made a choice to drive my Sport Trac to work today instead of my F-150. Doesn't mean that Sport Trac's are better. It just means I made a choice.

Good post! It also doesn't change the fact that they are both Fords.

 

[HerefordSire]

The red baldies I sold were docked relative to black baldies. If there was more profit for the buyer in the red'uns, it didn't get passed to me. Therefore, there will not be any black baldies next year coming from me. If the buyers really wanted more black baldies from me, they would have also paid for the red'uns. Since they didn't, they don't get another chance. They had their chance.