How many engineers

[Frankie]

I've been reading and hearing for years about the US falling behind the rest of the world in graduating engineers. Just recently, Bill Gates suggested that our government should issue more work permits so high tech companies could import foreign engineers.

But a Duke University study shows us it's not true. Some companies just want to import cheaper labor.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1220/p01s01-ussc.html

 

[backhoeboogie]

There are a few in this family :lol:

My daughter got her degree. While she was at college the foreign instructors were telling her that she was a woman and needed to be home raising babies. I told her to get her engineering degree, then go home and have me some grandbabies.

 

[ETF]

And here I thought this was going to be a joke about engineers.

The study looks to be pretty flawed, but as a practicing professional engineer I can tell you that engineering enrollments have been steadily declining for years and hiring qualified engineers is difficult. Importing foreign engineers doesn't worry me nearly as much as the outsourcing of engineering work to India and Korea that many companies are now doing. It's tough to compete with engineers earning $1.50 an hour. As a nation, we quit manufacturing most things decades ago. If we stop doing the design and intellectual development too, I worry about the future of this great country.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Importing foreign engineers doesn't worry me nearly as much as the outsourcing of engineering work to India and Korea that many companies are now doing. It's tough to compete with engineers earning $1.50 an hour. As a nation, we quit manufacturing most things decades ago. If we stop doing the design and intellectual development too, I worry about the future of this great country.

We have already gone to electronic signature on design documents.

It will come to outsourcing just about everything before long. You'll be able to go to Wal-Mart, punch in your scenario, and get a P.E. stamped schematic back from India in a matter of minutes.

 

[chrisy]

Importing foreign engineers doesn't worry me nearly as much as the outsourcing of engineering work to India and Korea that many companies are now doing. It's tough to compete with engineers earning $1.50 an hour. As a nation, we quit manufacturing most things decades ago. If we stop doing the design and intellectual development too, I worry about the future of this great country.

We have already gone to electronic signature on design documents.

It will come to outsourcing just about everything before long. You'll be able to go to Wal-Mart, punch in your scenario, and get a P.E. stamped schematic back from India in a matter of minutes.

Thought you aready could ;-) seems everything has gone to India, ring for a number on the phone and it is a voice in India, which you can't understand and neither can they, and to be asked where LONDON is well I was suprised, as most of them want to come there.

 

[skyline]

Interesting thread. We have about 6 openings for engineering graduates in our company that we have been trying to fill for over a year. Hired only 2 this year. We attend career fairs at about 8 major colleges and we offer very competitive starting salaries and give them their choice of 6 office locations in Texas. You cannot tell me that there is not an "engineer gap". When you cannot hire graduate engineers for $55k per year and a signing bonus, there are more job openings than engineers to fill them.

 

[Horticattleman]

Importing foreign engineers doesn't worry me nearly as much as the outsourcing of engineering work to India and Korea that many companies are now doing. It's tough to compete with engineers earning $1.50 an hour. As a nation, we quit manufacturing most things decades ago. If we stop doing the design and intellectual development too, I worry about the future of this great country.

We have already gone to electronic signature on design documents.

It will come to outsourcing just about everything before long. You'll be able to go to Wal-Mart, punch in your scenario, and get a P.E. stamped schematic back from India in a matter of minutes.

Thought you aready could ;-) seems everything has gone to India, ring for a number on the phone and it is a voice in India, which you can't understand and neither can they, and to be asked where LONDON is well I was suprised, as most of them want to come there.

Drives you nuts doesn't it. I hate calling for help and get a dotsie and there is no communication possible. He doesn't understand Cajun and I don't understand his mumbo jumbo! After 20 minutes we get nothing done.

 

[Frankie]

So you guys think Duke University is making this up? Why would they?

 

[Frankie]

Interesting thread. We have about 6 openings for engineering graduates in our company that we have been trying to fill for over a year. Hired only 2 this year. We attend career fairs at about 8 major colleges and we offer very competitive starting salaries and give them their choice of 6 office locations in Texas. You cannot tell me that there is not an "engineer gap". When you cannot hire graduate engineers for $55k per year and a signing bonus, there are more job openings than engineers to fill them.

$55,000 a year is peanuts today. My niece's new husband went to work for an oil related business at Fort Worth right out of A&M with a degreen in Business for $65K + he got to pick out a new 3/4 ton truck! They pay expenses on the truck. You guys might want to reevaluate your pay scale.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Interesting thread. We have about 6 openings for engineering graduates in our company that we have been trying to fill for over a year. Hired only 2 this year. We attend career fairs at about 8 major colleges and we offer very competitive starting salaries and give them their choice of 6 office locations in Texas. You cannot tell me that there is not an "engineer gap". When you cannot hire graduate engineers for $55k per year and a signing bonus, there are more job openings than engineers to fill them.

$55,000 a year is peanuts today. My niece's new husband went to work for an oil related business at Fort Worth right out of A&M with a degreen in Business for $65K + he got to pick out a new 3/4 ton truck! They pay expenses on the truck. You guys might want to reevaluate your pay scale.

Frankie, you're right. But, there is vast differences between salaries in Northeast Texas and Fort Worth. It has been like that for over 30 years. Two nephews moved out of Longview and moved over here to double their salaries.

I know engineers starting in Fort Worth at over $80K, with a huge signing bonus if they stay a year. Top grads can expect more.

AREVA (in SW Fort Worth) is probably going to be hiring many with all the nukes they are going to be putting in. B & P has been taking engineers from several industries lately. Shaw is looking too. I know one engineer with 25 years experience who has changed companies twice in the last year, each time taking a huge salary increase.

 

[VanC]

$55,000 a year is peanuts today.

That depends on where you live and how you live. Not everyone feels the need to have two or more 40K vehicles or a half million dollar home with 20 rooms for a family of four. My wife and I have done well on a little more than "peanuts". We're far from wealthy, but we have everything we need and then some, put two boys through college, and will have a comforatable retirement.

If someone can get a high paying job right out of college, more power to them, but this idea that the world somehow owes everyone a high paying job is a crock.

 

[Frankie]

$55,000 a year is peanuts today.

That depends on where you live and how you live. Not everyone feels the need to have two or more 40K vehicles or a half million dollar home with 20 rooms for a family of four. My wife and I have done well on a little more than "peanuts". We're far from wealthy, but we have everything we need and then some, put two boys through college, and will have a comforatable retirement.

If someone can get a high paying job right out of college, more power to them, but this idea that the world somehow owes everyone a high paying job is a crock.

That's not the point. The point is that big businesses go to Congress every year and ask to be allowed to import engineers because they claim the US isn't producing enough. But the Duke University study says it's not true; that companies want to import CHEAPER LABOR rather than pay American engineers. Look at it as higher paid (and legal) migrant field workers.

 

[Frankie]

Interesting thread. We have about 6 openings for engineering graduates in our company that we have been trying to fill for over a year. Hired only 2 this year. We attend career fairs at about 8 major colleges and we offer very competitive starting salaries and give them their choice of 6 office locations in Texas. You cannot tell me that there is not an "engineer gap". When you cannot hire graduate engineers for $55k per year and a signing bonus, there are more job openings than engineers to fill them.

$55,000 a year is peanuts today. My niece's new husband went to work for an oil related business at Fort Worth right out of A&M with a degreen in Business for $65K + he got to pick out a new 3/4 ton truck! They pay expenses on the truck. You guys might want to reevaluate your pay scale.

Frankie, you're right. But, there is vast differences between salaries in Northeast Texas and Fort Worth. It has been like that for over 30 years. Two nephews moved out of Longview and moved over here to double their salaries.

I'm sure that's true. But if the companies in NE Texas want to hire American engineers, they'll have to come up with more money or find people who prefer that lifestyle to Ft Worth. I'd think the cost of doing business would be considerably less in NE Texas than Fort Worth, property taxes, insurance? So shouldn't they be able to be competitive on salaries?

I know engineers starting in Fort Worth at over $80K, with a huge signing bonus if they stay a year. Top grads can expect more.

AREVA (in SW Fort Worth) is probably going to be hiring many with all the nukes they are going to be putting in. B & P has been taking engineers from several industries lately. Shaw is looking too. I know one engineer with 25 years experience who has changed companies twice in the last year, each time taking a huge salary increase.

But this young man is a BUSINESS major, not an engineer. He got such a good deal that his dad quite his job of about 20 years and went to work for the company, too. I don't know if he's an engineer or not.

I can't think why a reputable school like Duke University would present a slanted study on how many engineers are graduated in the US every year compared to other countries. Perhaps someone has some insight?

 

[backhoeboogie]

But the Duke University study says it's not true; that companies want to import CHEAPER LABOR rather than pay American engineers.

That is exactly correct. Secondly, if you hire an engineer from out of town, two years later he/she gets a better offer closer to home. Foreigners come in and get a job making peanuts, and they stay until their program runs out, which is years.

 

[VanC]

I can't think why a reputable school like Duke University would present a slanted study on how many engineers are graduated in the US every year compared to other countries.

I can. Perhaps Duke's engineering school isn't preparing it's students properly for today's world, but wants to justify the exorbitant tuition it charges by placing the blame elsewhere. Perhaps it's study is simply flawed, as ETF said in a previous post.

Before anybody throws a hissy fit, the fact is I don't know either one of these things to be true. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

We have the best system of higher education in the world, especially in the areas of science and engineering, but nothing's perfect. Universities put out thousands of research papers and studies every year. Some are flawed, some conclusions are based on pre-conceived notions, and some are biased. Don't fall into the trap that just because something comes from a "University study" it is somehow beyond dispute.

 

[Wewild]

Universities put out thousands of research papers and studies every year. Some are flawed, some conclusions are based on pre-conceived notions, and some are biased. Don't fall into the trap that just because something comes from a "University study" it is somehow beyond dispute.

Good post.

 

[chrisy]

Universities put out thousands of research papers and studies every year. Some are flawed, some conclusions are based on pre-conceived notions, and some are biased. Don't fall into the trap that just because something comes from a "University study" it is somehow beyond dispute.

Good post.

totally agree, not all the things they study are without a bit of bias, and prejudice to their cause.

 

[skyline]

Interesting thread. We have about 6 openings for engineering graduates in our company that we have been trying to fill for over a year. Hired only 2 this year. We attend career fairs at about 8 major colleges and we offer very competitive starting salaries and give them their choice of 6 office locations in Texas. You cannot tell me that there is not an "engineer gap". When you cannot hire graduate engineers for $55k per year and a signing bonus, there are more job openings than engineers to fill them.

$55,000 a year is peanuts today. My niece's new husband went to work for an oil related business at Fort Worth right out of A&M with a degreen in Business for $65K + he got to pick out a new 3/4 ton truck! They pay expenses on the truck. You guys might want to reevaluate your pay scale.

Frankie, you're right. But, there is vast differences between salaries in Northeast Texas and Fort Worth. It has been like that for over 30 years. Two nephews moved out of Longview and moved over here to double their salaries.

I know engineers starting in Fort Worth at over $80K, with a huge signing bonus if they stay a year. Top grads can expect more.

AREVA (in SW Fort Worth) is probably going to be hiring many with all the nukes they are going to be putting in. B & P has been taking engineers from several industries lately. Shaw is looking too. I know one engineer with 25 years experience who has changed companies twice in the last year, each time taking a huge salary increase.

We know what other companies in our industry are offering and you are right, it does vary. We pay more for folks to work in our Austin, Dallas, and Houston offices than we do in our East Texas offices. One of the problems is exactly what you guys talk about - other industries' starting salaries are higher than ours - so we are losing out to the petro companies. The issue is that there are so many jobs available to the graduates that they can pretty much pick whereever they want to go. It's a really good deal for the graduates. Never a better time to be a young engineer. When you do get them hired, the executive recruiters start calling them at work and home trying to get them to leave for the next job so they can collect their commission.

When I graduated, I was just thankful to have a job! Times have changed. Hard for us folks that started out pre-desktop computer to keep adjusting.

 

[ETF]

Things will cycle back, although it's hard to see when that will be. While I was in school in the late 70s and early 80s, the petroleum industry was red hot. Brand new chemical engineering graduates were averaging 10+ job offers. Recruiters were calling people at home and roaming the halls to try to sign people up. The bottom started falling out in 1982. All but a couple of people in the class that graduated the semester before me had a single job offer. When I graduated in the spring of 1983, one person in my class of 13 had a job and it was worse for people actually working in the petroleum industry. A lot of them ended up in Florida looking for a job, any job, just so maybe they could make their mortgage payment. By all means they should take the money while it's there, but they better be putting a fair amount aside for the downturn. Boom and bust has always been the name of that game.

 

[Earl Thigpen]

Interesting thread. We have about 6 openings for engineering graduates in our company that we have been trying to fill for over a year. Hired only 2 this year. We attend career fairs at about 8 major colleges and we offer very competitive starting salaries and give them their choice of 6 office locations in Texas. You cannot tell me that there is not an "engineer gap". When you cannot hire graduate engineers for $55k per year and a signing bonus, there are more job openings than engineers to fill them.

Your company pays starting engineers $55K/year??? My company doesn't. About $47K is tops. And no wonder we can't find engineers.