How Do You Determine Worth?

[upfrombottom]

I've been buying a few registered stock every year for the last couple of years and have yet to determine what people are using to determine the worth of they're stock. I literally hate haggling because it makes me feel as if I'm trying to buy a new car from a guy that knows what the deal is worth, but is high on the fact that you may give in before that figure is reached.

In my dealings, I have found that if a person starts out with a description that begins with the latest bull of the month in the pedigree, they are going to be asking way too much. I have seen some that were a percentage less than what the top seller in the bloodline brought and I have seen some ask a price that appears to me as the highest sale barn average plus a percentage. I've learned that the longer a person has been in the business, the better I can make a deal, after all they know what they would give for the same stock if they were the one doing the buying. I guess one could use the highest auction average as a "Suggested Retail Price" to use as a starting point and work from there, if you have the mindset of a car salesman.

How do you determine the asking price for your stock or what you consider a fair price for what your buying?

 

[Stocker Steve]

I don't pay extra for registered stock, and I don't eat paper.
I have purchased a lot of bred heifers and it has been a crap shoot. The only good thing is I can usually sell the losers as freezer beef.
I think paying a little extra for proven cows is money well spent. The Bud W. cowboy math is that a productive cow year was worth $100. So if you sell a 10 year old cull and buy a proven 5 year old cow she is worth $500 more than the cull price.

 

[TexasBred]

Worth is what "I" feel the animal is worth and I price her accordingly. I too hate to haggle so I price pretty darn close to what I plan to get for the animal without much consideration of how informed or uninformed the potential buyer may be but leaving just a bit of wiggle room to accomodate those that absolutely will never give "asking price". This allows you to come down a bit and gives them the feeling that they got the absolutely best deal they couldhave gotten....Folks you deal with know how you operate and learn whether or not you start out with a highly inflated price knowing you'll have to come down or if you're giving them a good indication of worth with your initial price. Another reason to know who you're dealing with.

 

[Dixieangus]

Depends on who i am selling too. I have a guy (trader and has something to do with a feed lot i think?) that i buy most my animals from and so i give him a good deal where he can make money also because he treats me well also. How i start is how much i have in them and if cattle have tumped or gone up. Then figure in some profit. All while staying in the budget of about what the market reports are saying. All has been good so far.

 

[vclavin]

On bulls, I figure to start, they are worth swinging weight. Add then the value for genetics. Calving ease is worth more as it is hard to find around here. Carcass genetics adds more to the animals value and then growth adds as well. I use the EPD's but value is based on whether or not actual data and EPD's are very closely matched. Heifers and cows, depends also on how bad I "don't" want to sell them lol.
Valerie

 

[JustSimmental]

On registered cattle, I begin with their market price, so I have a good idea of what they are worth swinging, then I price them based on performance, then genetics. We normally sell cattle annually at a breeders sale with only a few private treaty sales.

We market cattle much different than most people do, for example, once a cow has produced 2 heifers or is over 5 years of age she is sold, because her past calves genetics/performance is better than she is/was. (there is always the exception)

This works well because other breeders or commercial folks can buy a proven cow with many more years of production left in her. We call it an annual mature cow dispersal altho they are mostly 5-6 yrs of age and some even as 4 yr olds.

We maintain a cow herd based on several attributes where performance is the name of the game. We guarantee every animal for breeding soundness and these cows have a proven track record for performance.

The cattle we offer for sale will have the following traits:
1. Structurally Sound
2. Phenotype typical of the breed
3. Good Udder attachment and teat placement
4. Moderate milk production
5. Reproductively Sound
6. Good Disposition
7. Mothering Ability
8. Calving Interval < 365 Days
9. Weaning weight of calves at 50% of Dam's Weight
10. Unassisted calving
11. Fertility
12. Capacity
13. Longevity
14. Age at Puberty
15. Moderate Frame Score
16. Easy fleshing on available resources
17. Carcass merit
18. Moderate Mature Weight
19. Maternal Calving Ease
20. Maternal Weaning Weight

We normally set a minimum on our cattle at a sale, but those 4.5.6 yr old cows (bred) normally will bring >3K at a sale. We don't send culls to a sale ever and what is represented at a sale is "our best".

An example:
We recently sold a 5 yr old Black Simmental cow at a sale that was bred to a leading Angus sire to calve in October/ ultrasounded with a heifer calf with the following EPD's:
CE: ---
BW: - 3.3
WW: 42
YW: 92
MCE:---
MM: 6.3
MWW: 27.1
CW: 3.4
YG: 0.12
BF: 0.06
Marb: 0.92
REA: .34

API: 154
TI: 92
This heifer calf will rank in the Top 1% of all Simm/Angus nationwide.

This Black Irish Kansas cow meets all the attributes above and her last 2 calves (bulls) weaned over 800 lbs at 205 days. She is now in a Donor Program. Do they pay for them-- you bet.

Private treaty-- we open our heifer group up to 4H kids--first, with a buy back option.
Open heifers normally sell very good and can sell all we want to, private treaty.
If someone wants quite a few heifers we normally cut the price based on how many they buy.

Our Bull calves sell quickly too and price them half what a normal 2 yr old would bring. An example:

This PB calf brought $1800 @ 8 months of age-- the guy never even tried to haggle me, as I would have sent him on his way.

CE: 8.6
BW: 0.6
WW: 45.3
YW: 85.8
MCE: 6.9
MK: 4.5
MWW: 27.1
Stay: 22.1
CW: 14.5
YG: 0.02
Marb: 0.48
BF: 0.01
REA: 0.34
Shr: -0.57

API: 145
TI: 82

What is Top % worth? >> As much as the market will bare.

JS

I've been buying a few registered stock every year for the last couple of years and have yet to determine what people are using to determine the worth of they're stock. I literally hate haggling because it makes me feel as if I'm trying to buy a new car from a guy that knows what the deal is worth, but is high on the fact that you may give in before that figure is reached.

In my dealings, I have found that if a person starts out with a description that begins with the latest bull of the month in the pedigree, they are going to be asking way too much. I have seen some that were a percentage less than what the top seller in the bloodline brought and I have seen some ask a price that appears to me as the highest sale barn average plus a percentage. I've learned that the longer a person has been in the business, the better I can make a deal, after all they know what they would give for the same stock if they were the one doing the buying. I guess one could use the highest auction average as a "Suggested Retail Price" to use as a starting point and work from there, if you have the mindset of a car salesman.

How do you determine the asking price for your stock or what you consider a fair price for what your buying?

 

[TexasBred]

:bs: A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

:bs: A picture is worth a thousand words.

That 'phrase' is an "old saying", and with beef cattle evaluation, more than one picture is required to even be partly representative of the individual being discussed. Also, it depends upon the quality of the picture(s), and the words accompanying them. The operative meanings of most "old sayings" is - they are 'old' and they are 'sayings', - and neither one may be correct in the most strict sense of the word.

Generally speaking, pictures are the "worst" method of evaluating a live animal, even 'moving' pictures, such as a video. This is why so much effort is being expended on accurate EPD's, and DNA markers to ascertain Molecular Value Predictions in an endeavor to more closely determine the "worth" of any animal.

...and there is one more factor which has not been stressed in this thread which every marketer should consider when pricing his merchandise: that is - how important the 'sellers' merchandise is going to be to the 'buyer'. In that regard, it is obligatory on the part of the seller to be aware of what the buyer really wants - and/or - really needs! That is the real crux of "salesmanship"!

DOC HARRIS

 

[TexasBred]

Doc the only pic I was referring to was the one I posted...the BS flag.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Doc the only pic I was referring to was the one I posted...the BS flag.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :lol2: :lol2: :nod: :nod: :banana: :banana: :tiphat:

DOC HARRIS - :wave: