How did she do that?

[dun]

Horns work the same way. Substitute polled for black and horns for red.

dun

 

[VanC]

I think what confuses people is when two blacks throw a red. This isn't uncommon, but the ONLY way it can happen is if both parents have a red gene and both parents pass that red gene to the calf. It doesn't mean the red gene was dominant, just that each parent passed their red gene on. If either parent was to pass a black gene, the calf would be black because black is dominant. When you get into brindles, duns, browns, dilutors, spotting, etc. things get more complicated, but the black vs. red thing is pretty simple.

 

[jack.diamond]

I think what confuses people is when two blacks throw a red. This isn't uncommon, but the ONLY way it can happen is if both parents have a red gene and both parents pass that red gene to the calf. It doesn't mean the red gene was dominant, just that each parent passed their red gene on. If either parent was to pass a black gene, the calf would be black because black is dominant. When you get into brindles, duns, browns, dilutors, spotting, etc. things get more complicated, but the black vs. red thing is pretty simple.

See the below. Black momma, 1/2 angus x 1/2 beefmaster, sire registered black angus bull. Two out of five calves sire by the same bull to the same combination of cows were red, the other three black.

Jack

 

[bigbull338]

the hereford bull she was with carries a real strong red gene factor.that will almost override the black gene.unless the black gene is the stronger of the 2.

Better go back and study genetics 101

dun

ok dun i may not be as smart as you.but i can stump the fire out of you on the black cows having red calves.most all of the cows we run are black hided.well guess what most all of them are throwing red hided calves.now the bulls that have been running on them are both red an blacked hided.so that tells me that the red genes are over riding the black genes more an more.ive talked to hereford breeders that have breed herefords fo 60yrs.an they all say if you get a hereford bull with the dominate red gene he will throw red on his calves.no matter if the black if the dominate gene.

Puttin it politely, somone is full of bull when they claim that a red gene is dominant to a black gene. It takes 2 red genes to make a red animal. Each parent passes one color gene. Black is dominant to red. 2 black genes = black, 2 red genes = red. 1 black gene and 1 red gene = black. Basic genetics 101

dun

well dun once again we all have differant opions.but hey you beleive the genetics books an thats ok.i beleive what i see.an im seeeing the red genes over ride the black.no way that you can explain it.

 

[MillIronQH]

I don't know didley about cattle genetics and am no authority on equine genetics either but I have read and been told numerous times that all black horses carry the red gene. Same with black cattle?????Z

 

[dun]

well dun once again we all have differant opions.but hey you beleive the genetics books an thats ok.i beleive what i see.an im seeeing the red genes over ride the black.no way that you can explain it.

I'm sure that since the 1890s the genetics of color haven't been figured out. I'll bow to your obviously vast knowledge.

dun

 

[Sage]

oops yea hetro two, you want a black black bull Homozygus black

 

[dun]

oops yea hetro two, you want a black black bull Homozygus black

But you have to watch those homozygous black bulls, they'll still throw red calves. I suppose even if they're bred to homozygous black cows they'll still do it

dun

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I don't know didley about cattle genetics and am no authority on equine genetics either but I have read and been told numerous times that all black horses carry the red gene. Same with black cattle?????Z

If either carry the red gene they are not homozygous black. this calf is a simple example of a black baldie cow with both genes breed back to hereford bull. so in a way the red gene is dominate be cause it is washing out the black.

 

[VanC]

See the below. Black momma, 1/2 angus x 1/2 beefmaster, sire registered black angus bull. Two out of five calves sire by the same bull to the same combination of cows were red, the other three black.

Jack

Just because a bull is registered black Angus doesn't mean it doesn't carry a red gene. Two blacks that carry the red gene and pass it on will produce a red calf. That's where Red Angus came from, after all.

Your bull has to be heterozygous black (1 black gene, 1 red gene). If the breeder told you he is homozygous black (2 black genes) then he is either mistaken or lying. Once again, the ONLY way 2 blacks can produce a red is if each parent carries the red gene and both pass it on. Each mating is strictly random. In other words, if you mate that same bull to those same cows, the calves may be red one year and black the next and so on.

It's simple to me, but I sometimes have a hard time explaining things to others. I'd make a lousy teacher. ;-)

 

[VanC]

I don't know didley about cattle genetics and am no authority on equine genetics either but I have read and been told numerous times that all black horses carry the red gene. Same with black cattle?????Z

If either carry the red gene they are not homozygous black. this calf is a simple example of a black baldie cow with both genes breed back to hereford bull. so in a way the red gene is dominate be cause it is washing out the black.

Not trying to be a know-it-all, but the black gene is always dominant over the red and cannot be "washed out" by the red gene. In the original post, the black baldie has 1 black gene and 1 red gene. Her coat is black because black is dominant. She was bred by the Hereford bull, which has to have 2 red genes in order to have a red coat. Each parent will randomly pass on one color gene. The bull passed on a red because that's all he had. The cow had a 50/50 chance of passing on either the red or the black gene. In this case she passed the red gene, which gave the calf 2 red genes, which gives the calf a red coat. If the cow had passed on the black gene the calf would have had 1 black and 1 red, which would have given the calf a black coat, again, because black is the dominant gene.

It's not a question of a gene being washed out, it's simply a question of which gene gets passed on to the offspring.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

See the below. Black momma, 1/2 angus x 1/2 beefmaster, sire registered black angus bull. Two out of five calves sire by the same bull to the same combination of cows were red, the other three black.

Jack

Just because a bull is registered black Angus doesn't mean it doesn't carry a red gene. Two blacks that carry the red gene and pass it on will produce a red calf. That's where Red Angus came from, after all.

Your bull has to be heterozygous black (1 black gene, 1 red gene). If the breeder told you he is homozygous black (2 black genes) then he is either mistaken or lying. Once again, the ONLY way 2 blacks can produce a red is if each parent carries the red gene and both pass it on. Each mating is strictly random. In other words, if you mate that same bull to those same cows, the calves may be red one year and black the next and so on.

It's simple to me, but I sometimes have a hard time explaining things to others. I'd make a lousy teacher. ;-)

thats right about the bull being a carrier of both. plus being bred too a 1/2 beefmaster the po. ol' black gene don't have a fighting chance ;-)

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I don't know didley about cattle genetics and am no authority on equine genetics either but I have read and been told numerous times that all black horses carry the red gene. Same with black cattle?????Z

If either carry the red gene they are not homozygous black. this calf is a simple example of a black baldie cow with both genes breed back to hereford bull. so in a way the red gene is dominate be cause it is washing out the black.

Not trying to be a know-it-all, but the black gene is always dominant over the red and cannot be "washed out" by the red gene. In the original post, the black baldie has 1 black gene and 1 red gene. Her coat is black because black is dominant. She was bred by the Hereford bull, which has to have 2 red genes in order to have a red coat. Each parent will randomly pass on one color gene. The bull passed on a red because that's all he had. The cow had a 50/50 chance of passing on either the red or the black gene. In this case she passed the red gene, which gave the calf 2 red genes, which gives the calf a red coat. If the cow had passed on the black gene the calf would have had 1 black and 1 red, which would have given the calf a black coat, again, because black is the dominant gene.

It's not a question of a gene being washed out, it's simply a question of which gene gets passed on to the offspring.

i realize that you must have misunderstood what i was saying its not that complicated. what i said that with all the hereford influance the calf has in it .......it should not be a big suprize it turned out looking like a hereford it would just be a toss up at that point because the red gene has more of a chance too overide the black

 

[VanC]

I don't know didley about cattle genetics and am no authority on equine genetics either but I have read and been told numerous times that all black horses carry the red gene. Same with black cattle?????Z

If either carry the red gene they are not homozygous black. this calf is a simple example of a black baldie cow with both genes breed back to hereford bull. so in a way the red gene is dominate be cause it is washing out the black.

Not trying to be a know-it-all, but the black gene is always dominant over the red and cannot be "washed out" by the red gene. In the original post, the black baldie has 1 black gene and 1 red gene. Her coat is black because black is dominant. She was bred by the Hereford bull, which has to have 2 red genes in order to have a red coat. Each parent will randomly pass on one color gene. The bull passed on a red because that's all he had. The cow had a 50/50 chance of passing on either the red or the black gene. In this case she passed the red gene, which gave the calf 2 red genes, which gives the calf a red coat. If the cow had passed on the black gene the calf would have had 1 black and 1 red, which would have given the calf a black coat, again, because black is the dominant gene.

It's not a question of a gene being washed out, it's simply a question of which gene gets passed on to the offspring.

i realize that you must have misunderstood what i was saying its not that complicated. what i said that with all the hereford influance the calf has in it .......it should not be a big suprize it turned out looking like a hereford it would just be a toss up at that point because the red gene has more of a chance too overide the black

I see what you're saying, and you're right. Since the calf is 3/4 Hereford it will most likely look like one. I was thinking in terms of color rather than breeds. Sorry if I seemed snippy. ;-)

 

[dun]

The chances of the red "overriding" the black are still 50:50. With a red bull, in this case Hereford, the cow still will pass either a red gene or a black gene. So it's still even chances of either a red calf or a black calf.

dun

 

[ALACOWMAN]

The chances of the red "overriding" the black are still 50:50. With a red bull, in this case Hereford, the cow still will pass either a red gene or a black gene. So it's still even chances of either a red calf or a black calf.

dun

and I would'nt want to lay a twenty on the barrell head either. if she were bred back too the same bull what color the next calf could be

 

[dun]

The chances of the red "overriding" the black are still 50:50. With a red bull, in this case Hereford, the cow still will pass either a red gene or a black gene. So it's still even chances of either a red calf or a black calf.

dun

and I would'nt want to lay a twenty on the barrell head either. if she were bred back too the same bull what color the next calf could be

All you would know for sure is that it could be red or black.

dun

 

[dieselbeef]

looks like a good candidate for eye cancer to me...eat it

 

[S.R.R.]

The chances of the red "overriding" the black are still 50:50. With a red bull, in this case Hereford, the cow still will pass either a red gene or a black gene. So it's still even chances of either a red calf or a black calf.

dun

Yep you are right on dun, that is the way Jeanne taught it to me some time ago!

 

[gabby]

looks like a good candidate for eye cancer to me...eat it

Yep. Pretty little feller but he needs to be ett when he grows up.

All this fancy gene talk is making my head spin.
gabby