Horned Hereford -vs- Polled Hereford

[OakCreekRanch]

It shouldn't be an issue if you are breeding horned Hereford bull to polled angus cows or polled angus bull to horned Hereford cows. The F1 offspring should be heterozygous polled. If you wanted replacements, then don't use horned Herefords or at least breed the F1 to another polled breed such as Simmental or Charolais.

Be prepared to spend most of the rest of your life fighting the horned gene in the cow herd started by those heterozygous replacements. I have a neighbor who used 3 different registered Angus bulls of mixed cows and he got horns sired by all three of the Angus bulls.

Sounds like these Angus bulls have something in them or does you meant scurred calves? I don't see it as a big deal, using a horned bull as a terminal sire. I can see your point on the replacements but I knew someone have a herd of longhorn cross cows, used a black Simmental bull on them and I never seen a horned calf out of them.

 

[alexfarms]

It shouldn't be an issue if you are breeding horned Hereford bull to polled angus cows or polled angus bull to horned Hereford cows. The F1 offspring should be heterozygous polled. If you wanted replacements, then don't use horned Herefords or at least breed the F1 to another polled breed such as Simmental or Charolais.

Be prepared to spend most of the rest of your life fighting the horned gene in the cow herd started by those heterozygous replacements. I have a neighbor who used 3 different registered Angus bulls of mixed cows and he got horns sired by all three of the Angus bulls.

Sounds like these Angus bulls have something in them or does you meant scurred calves? I don't see it as a big deal, using a horned bull as a terminal sire. I can see your point on the replacements but I knew someone have a herd of longhorn cross cows, used a black Simmental bull on them and I never seen a horned calf out of them.

Big solid horns. He did resort the cows after breeding so it may have been all 3 didnt carry horns, but at least one of them sure did. They were a registered black Angus.

 

[OakCreekRanch]

Doesn't mean these black angus were fullblood Angus. Sounds like the horned calves may be sired by something other than these angus bulls. But for most time, the homozygous polled bulls should knock the horns off in the calves regardless of the cow is horned or heterozygous polled.

 

[Rafter S]

Here in my part of the country the knock on polled Hereford bulls years ago (and I mean like 40 years ago) was that "When they bred the horns off they bred the a** off too." I don't think that's true any longer, but a lot of people still believe it and wouldn't have a polled bull for that reason.

I used a polled bull on some of my Brangus cow for the last five or six years and was very happy with the calves. He wore out and I went back to the same place Saturday and bought another bull. This one has horns, but that's not why I bought him. I thought he was the best bull they had for the price.

 

[alexfarms]

Doesn't mean these black angus were fullblood Angus. Sounds like the horned calves may be sired by something other than these angus bulls. But for most time, the homozygous polled bulls should knock the horns off in the calves regardless of the cow is horned or heterozygous polled.

Yes, the calves were horned and they were sired by registered, fullblood, pedigreed black Angus bulls. It does happen. The Angus breed does have the horned gene.

 

[OakCreekRanch]

Doesn't mean these black angus were fullblood Angus. Sounds like the horned calves may be sired by something other than these angus bulls. But for most time, the homozygous polled bulls should knock the horns off in the calves regardless of the cow is horned or heterozygous polled.

Yes, the calves were horned and they were sired by registered, fullblood, pedigreed black Angus bulls. It does happen. The Angus breed does have the horned gene.

Again, these Angus bulls are not homozygous polled or have something in them. I would questioning about their fullblooded status.

 

[insurman]

just not a fan of the horns at all..does not matter what breed. My 3/4 solid black Simbrah has knocked off the horns on every calf, 18 last year and 3 so far this year...not to mention either solid black or red (one with white socks and one with a white brow) and all the cows are Beefmaster cross.

 

[ohiosteve]

I am the first to admit that I am not right in the head, but here is my observation: Horned cattle are more aggressive, they are better mothers and are smarter than "hornless" cows. Y'all can say I'm full of shyt all you want but that is my opinion. Without a doubt, there will always be a market for horned cattle.

 

[AllForage]

To me it is not a polled versus horned issue, but I have yet to find my preferred "type" in a polled package. It's as simple as that. Horns don't affect me that much due to my direct marketing.

As a side observation, most of the Trask cattle that have been kept tight seem to lose their impressiveness especially in the bulls. It is clear the infusions of Anxiety blood helped to maintain their physique.

Guess I am crazy like ohiosteve......

 

[smnherf]

I've found them to be more rugged than the polled bulls. The heterosis over other breeds is about 1% more with a horned hereford versus polled.

Where did you get that idea from?

A publication from the University of Missouri that I saw about a year ago. I'll see if I can find a link to it on-line. It was given to me by a limo breeder who tries to sell me bulls but the diferance between the polled and horned bulls is what stuck with me.

Was that a study of limousine bulls or Hereford?

 

[smnherf]

I am the first to admit that I am not right in the head, but here is my observation: Horned cattle are more aggressive, they are better mothers and are smarter than "hornless" cows. Y'all can say I'm full of shyt all you want but that is my opinion. Without a doubt, there will always be a market for horned cattle.

Been around horned cattle and polled cattle all my life and I have not seen that. In fact my cows of today are 10 times the mothers of the horned cattle that I grew up with. They are easier calving, easier fleshing, more fertile, better uddered, a lot less cancer eye, better footed with a better disposition. But I don't attribute it to the fact that they are mostly polled today, but simply better individuals than what we used then. We have to be careful when evaluating things about cattle to not paint with too broad of a brush. It comes down to the individuals more than the breed or whether they are horned or polled.

I personally just want to breed the best Hereford cattle that I possibly can and I am not going limit myself to only a small segment of the gene pool. They either work for me here or they don't, if they have horns fine, but if they are polled they are worth more.

Brian

 

[John SD]

Maybe the polled bull proponents could borrow the sales pitch my neighbor Angus breeder used to use. He always recommended "Screw the horns off with an Angus bull!"

Dehorning is something tht needs doing but is really no big deal if you do it when the calf is young. I've done it several ways over the years, including paste on newborns or spoons or hot irons at branding time. Preferred the hot irons,along with a generous coat of pine tar.

Used to use Pro-tec from Franklin. IIRC, Franklin is no longer in business. Don't think Pro-Tec has been made for years, but pine tar was the major component in it.

 

[SPH]

I'm still amazed by some of the stereotypes still out there and some of the BS that still is being spewed today by both sides who think their horned or polled cattle is better. As a polled breeder I don't have anything against horned cattle, we just don't prefer having cattle we have to dehorn. We still get a few horns here and there because some of the polled lines still have a horn gene somewhere and if you match them up with just right 2 polled animals could still have a horned calf because they are still carrying a horn gene. We'll dehorn them and a lot of times we sell those animals as we don't want to keep passing on a horned gene in our herd. Our current herd bull is polled but is sired by a horned bull actually.

Bottom line is some guys prefer one over the other and that is fine, there is no right or wrong reason but it's BS to say horned bulls are absolutely better than polled because you can find good bulls on both sides. Also depends on what traits you are breeding for too. The numbers don't lie as I mentioned earlier the top 3 sires by number of registrations were all polled bulls (Revolution, 719T, and About Time) so from a registered purebred standpoint a lot of people must think those bulls are the best in the breed just by the large numbers of calves being registered with the association.

Depending on where you go in the country, a bull may bring more money than the other depending on if he's horned or polled. Around here the polled bulls tend to bring a little more than the horned but in other areas that is not the case. Regardless I am sick of guys that have narrow-minded thinking some hereford breeders have that feel the need to bash horned or polled cattle. As a breed, Herefords are doing very well right now and if you follow sale results Hereford breeders should be very proud of how well our cattle are selling right now compared to our competitors in other breeds. Our state sale this month Herefords averaged $609 more per head than the next highest breed average sale (Simmental) and $1095 more than the Angus so Hereford breeders in this state are pretty damn proud of right now that their Hereford cattle is in high demand right now.

 

[Beef Man]

SPH,you are right, the hereford breed has a chance to recapture a fair amount of market share and we better pay strict attention this time or forever be a hobby breed. I as a old horrned breedercould get into this discussion and feel like I am winning a large share of this debate, but to each his own, lets all buckle down and get to the basics of produceing beef!! Let the hereford genetics seek there place in the industry and we pretty much know that if given any kind of chance they will prove themselves. Those people that have run from breed to breed to mongorlize[sp] there cowherds have to wake up soon and if they can stay in business will need the basics to return to a sustanable operation.Never mind if they are polled or horned.

 

[Craig]

SPH, what state are you in?

 

[cow pollinater]

Was that a study of limousine bulls or Hereford?

It had about twelve breeds and a chart that showed how much heterosis to expect when crossing each of the breeds to other breeds. He showed it to me to show me how much heterosis his lims would add. I spent a while looking for it on-line yesterday and didn't find it but I have to deliver nitrogen to him in a month so I'll see if I can get a paper copy from him then.

FWIW, I am NOT a Hereford breeder. I own Horned Hereford bulls and run them on black cows. I got turned off of polled Herefords about fifteen years ago when the ranch I was working for had to turn them over repeatedly because they fell apart so fast. They used bulls from a few diferent sources and went all angus out of disgust about a year after I left. Fast forward ten years and I started seeing what my neighbor was getting done with Horned Herefords in country that is much more demanding than what I had seen before and I decided to try them again... Horned Hereford bulls have earned their place in my bull pasture. :nod: I don't want to sound like I'm bashing polled bulls but that has been my observation.

 

[SPH]

SPH, what state are you in?

Iowa

 

[Herefords.US]

FWIW, I am NOT a Hereford breeder. I own Horned Hereford bulls and run them on black cows. I got turned off of polled Herefords about fifteen years ago when the ranch I was working for had to turn them over repeatedly because they fell apart so fast. They used bulls from a few diferent sources and went all angus out of disgust about a year after I left. Fast forward ten years and I started seeing what my neighbor was getting done with Horned Herefords in country that is much more demanding than what I had seen before and I decided to try them again... Horned Hereford bulls have earned their place in my bull pasture. :nod: I don't want to sound like I'm bashing polled bulls but that has been my observation.

What bloodline are the Hereford bulls that you run?

George

 

[cow pollinater]

Mrnack Herefords West. Most of them are Monument 3147. I'm looking for two more this year.

 

[Herefords.US]

Mrnack Herefords West. Most of them are Monument 3147. I'm looking for two more this year.

Good cattle...really like the looks of some of the 3147 sons. Had 3147 on my short list of AI sires at one time....never used him. Guess I need to take another look.