High Phosphorus Mineral

[tnwalkingred]

All,

I was talking to a cattle man today and he stated that he always used a high phosphorus mineral as it really helped his cows get bred. Anyone else experienced this? If so how much phosphorus should I be looking for in the mineral I'm feeding?

Kyle

 

[Nesikep]

That depends on if your cattle are short of phosphorus, My mineral is 6/12 or 9/18 Ca/P and everyone around here says I have the numbers backward so it seems to be a bit of a rarity. I did a blood test on a cow that was a helluva producer but had a hard time breeding back, and I found she was low on phosphorus, Selenium, an Copper. It's not so much how much Phosphorus is in the mix, but it's ratio to calcium. Phosphorus is an expensive part of the mix... the 9:18 is $44/bag, the 6:12 is $33 a bag. I feed 25% 6:12, 75% salt and have had good results and not broken the bank. What I noticed in my heavy producing cows is if they calved late and were with the bull quickly, they bred back fine, if it was 2-3 months before they were exposed to the bull, that's when trouble would start.

 

[dun]

Vigortone has a breeder mineral that is higher then the rgular stuff in phosphorous. Never used it so I don;t know what it is

 

[Stocker Steve]

Depends on your soil and your forage mix. Need to test to know.
I don't supply any phosphorous mineral myself, bu they do get a bit of alfalfa.
I do a custom mix with white salt, Cu, iodine, selenium.

 

[Nesikep]

Do your cows like to chew on rocks, wood, bones etc? That is a common phosphorus deficiency indicator.

 

[Aaron]

All my cattle get 1:1 mineral year round with no salt added to it. It's a must to maintain a tight breeding season and get cows cycling within a month after calving.

 

[TexasBred]

All,

I was talking to a cattle man today and he stated that he always used a high phosphorus mineral as it really helped his cows get bred. Anyone else experienced this? If so how much phosphorus should I be looking for in the mineral I'm feeding?

Kyle

Most of the time 12% P. in a mineral is more than adequate and most don't even need that much and at that level the phosphorus source comprises about 80% of the total cost of the mineral.

 

[Stocker Steve]

All my cattle get 1:1 mineral year round with no salt added to it. It's a must to maintain a tight breeding season and get cows cycling within a month after calving.

Guys here say Selenium is the key to a tight breeding season. I have no idea on the mineral thing, but I do know that know that hard cull'in can tighten things up fast. :nod:

I like a tight calving season but for me it is not critical. I have multiple markets I can sell into so there is not a discount for a couple later GOOD calves.

 

[Aaron]

All my cattle get 1:1 mineral year round with no salt added to it. It's a must to maintain a tight breeding season and get cows cycling within a month after calving.

Guys here say Selenium is the key to a tight breeding season. I have no idea on the mineral thing, but I do know that know that hard cull'in can tighten things up fast. :nod:

I like a tight calving season but for me it is not critical. I have multiple markets I can sell into so there is not a discount for a couple later GOOD calves.

Selenium is usually tied to better immune function and higher sperm quality.

 

[Stocker Steve]

There was a right up on some of the African breeds where they bragged up how well adapted they were. One of the points made was that they did not need to provide even white salt, but there were no specifics on the calving window.

 

[Nesikep]

We culled hard for years, didn't do us a lick of good, we had mineral deficiencies that were the root cause of it and I'm sure we culled a lot of otherwise good cows.

The key to a tight breeding season is a BALANCED mineral mix... If you're seriously deficient in anything, breeding is probably the first thing you'll suffer on.

BTW, Alfalfa doesn't have much phosphorus in it... In hay, they say it's 1.5% Ca, 0.3% P, and 0.4% Mg. In contrast, Barley Silage is 0.5%Ca, 0.3% P, and 0.4%Mg... Barley as grain is 0.06% Ca, 0.4%P, and 0.2% Mg...
So Alfalfa has a 5:1 ratio, which is a bit steep on the Calcium side... Meanwhile dairy cattle that eat a lot of grain get tons through it, and need more calcium... part of the reason they get milk fever more than beef cows (Magnesium is part of that equation too)

Obviously the ground the food was grown on is going to contribute to those numbers.. seriously P deficient soil will probably not have as much in the grain either.

Another note,.. High calcium reduces phosphorus uptake, as well as a Vitamin D deficiency... some points to keep in mind too.

If you want some reading material... I spent a lot of time researching this.. Here's a link to the thread viewtopic.php?f=7&t=73928

 

[TexasBred]

Meanwhile dairy cattle that eat a lot of grain get tons through it, and need more calcium... part of the reason they get milk fever more than beef cows (Magnesium is part of that equation too)

Obviously the ground the food was grown on is going to contribute to those numbers.. seriously P deficient soil will probably not have as much in the grain either.

Another note,.. High calcium reduces phosphorus uptake, as well as a Vitamin D deficiency... some points to keep in mind too.

If you want some reading material... I spent a lot of time researching this.. Here's a link to the thread viewtopic.php?f=7&t=73928

Most of your milk fever problems in the dairy industry are caused by the feeding program during the dry period. And it is not a shortage of calcium but a surplus of calcium in the blood which is suddenly drawn down at calving and lactation that causes the milk fever. Calcium needs to be restricted during the last month pre-calving in order to lower the blood calcium level and require the cow to draw calcium from the bone rather than the blood. That' is why I said your mineral looked more like a close up dry cow mineal.

 

[jerry27150]

had a lot of trouble with milk fever in dairy one time, vet had me giving shot of phos during dry period, but it did not help. feedman finally figured out they were not getting enough calcium while milking. then when they freshened they did not have any reserve to draw on

 

[Stocker Steve]

We culled hard for years, didn't do us a lick of good, we had mineral deficiencies that were the root cause of it and I'm sure we culled a lot of otherwise good cows

How did you decide that mineral deficiencies were the root problem?

 

[Stocker Steve]

Selenium is usually tied to better immune function and higher sperm quality.

Are you a Multi Min fan?

 

[Aaron]

Selenium is usually tied to better immune function and higher sperm quality.

Are you a Multi Min fan?

Never knew such a thing ever existed. Have to remember that veterinary/animal health products don't get approved for us up here at even 1/4 the rate they do in the US, if ever. Even so, I would prefer my minerals to be through continual supplementation, not a one-shot-a-year deal.

 

[Nesikep]

I didn't really "decide" it was the root problem, it's more of a suspicion.
Take one of my heaviest producing cows I had, Tizia, her first calf was a heifer weaned at very close to 700 lbs, and she didn't breed back that year... we kept her anyhow and her next calf was a 740 lb steer, followed by a 700 lb heifer.. If she calved late and was exposed to the bull soon after calving, she'd settle the first time every time, when she was early, and had to milk 3 months before seeing the bull, she'd have a hard time. That pointed me in the right direction.. she had subclinical deficiencies of Se, P and Cu... just not enough that she was *sick*, but enough to affect her.

 

[Stocker Steve]

she had subclinical deficiencies of Se, P and Cu... just not enough that she was *sick*, but enough to affect her.

So you blood tested cow(s) rather than testing forage ?

 

[Nesikep]

Correct... somewhere in the health boards there's a thread about that.

 

[Waterway65]

If you are having more than 8 percent open, no metritis, or bull problems, then nutrition is the next concern. Net energy and body condition score are first consideration of breeding problems. Hard milking young cows are most likely problems. It's ironic we breed for performance and then by culling open animals tend to cull against it. Then if you need additional minerals investigate local mineral mixes that may be more compatible with needs in your area. Mel