Hereford??

[Taurus]

I recall a photo SRBeef posted with his Herefords lying facing the sun at sunset. Seemed romantic, but later I read that since cattle struggle to get rid of body heat, they will face the sun to minimize the surface area being hit by sun, and also be less direct exposure. I would also think the whiteface would be cooler.

I was reading this publication from the Southern Association of Agricultural Experiment Station Directors. It outlines various research interests to improve performance in challenging environments. A lot of good reading on various subjects. Here is a section discussing color and its effect on heat stress. Note that the black cattle had tympanic (eardrum) temps 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than lighter colors. 0.5 C equals 0.9 degrees Fahrenheit, which can be a significant difference in the heat and explains the greater heat stress in black cattle, meaning less profit.

http://nimss.umd.edu/homepages/outline. ... ckID=11616

Objective 4. Bonsma (1949) discussed the appropriate coloration of cattle to be resistant to high temperatures and high solar radiation as having a white, yellow or reddish brown hair coat with yellow, reddish brown or black skin. Finch et al. (1984) reported that dark red and red Brahman and Shorthorn steers had a higher absorption of solar radiation than white steers. Mader et al. (2002) examined the effect of hair color in feedlot steers during Nebraska summer months and found that tympanic temperatures of dark steers (including pre-dominantly black but some red) were 0.5º C higher during the afternoon and early evening than those of white (presumably Charolais crossbred) steers. The dark steers also panted more and tended to bunch more than white steers under warm conditions. In a subsequent study, Davis et al. (2003) compared the tympanic temperatures of black vs. white Charolais ´ Angus crossbred steers while under severe heat stress and being full-fed. The temperatures of black steers were higher throughout the day than those of white steers and averaged 0.5º C higher at 1900. Hutchinson and Brown (1969) reported that black hair coats absorb more solar radiation than white hair coats but that the radiation penetrated further into white than black hair coats. da Silva et al. (2003) examined the reflectance, transmittance, and absorptance of haircoat and skin of black, red, white, and gray hide samples from Bos taurus and Bos indicus cattle. Red coats reflected more of the solar radiation than black, and white and gray coats tended to reflect even more.

Too bad some herefords suffered bad eyes from exposed to UV light from the sun.

 

[P.A.L]

Provide adequate shade and the color/sun heat issues "melt away"

Yep and a good supply of water.(not necesssarily cold) Djinwa did those articles say anything about why "people" around the equator and other hotter areas are "primarily black or dark brown" and if it is or is not an adaptation to handle heat?? The same for the very fair skinned people of Northern Europe?? What about using rectal temperatures as apposed to ear temps ?? Does white work better than black in colder areas??

I would say the color of peoples skin would be due to sun burn and not so much for heat. A fair colored white guy will burn a lot worse than a darker colored person. Hair on an animal will stop the burning. But you notice a lighter uddered cow will get snow/sun burned there, due to not much hair. Just my opinion.

We Northerner Europeans are blondes with blue eyes...

We are white because of the skins ability to collect vitamin-D. Pale skin does it better. Sun shine is quite a news here. Last year only handful of sunny days and winters sun is so far away that you cant see it in the darkest months. In the middle of the summer sun is up for 24 hours, but it mostly rain.

 

[SRBeef]

For the record, here's the picture referred to above. This was in July at Sunset but in 2011 I don't think the heat was that bad. I dont think they have lined up this way because of heat but it may have been. I took the picture because I thought they looked like a pretty contented bunch watching the sun go down. Except my bull in the upper RH corner. This was about 2 weeks after bull in day... he probably needed a rest! fwiw.

Jim

 

[AllForage]

Instead of people, let's look at where the cattle originate from. Cold, dark, and rainy Scotland and parts of Galloway.

Providing shade?? That is exactly what ushered in G&S's success with sending Hereford bulls west. Bulls standing under shade and making a muck while Hereford bulls out rustling and breeding cows. When one starts to alter their environment to cater to a breed, not sure that is the best decision for one's resources. Heat tolerance is a function of skin thickness. Vascularity helps to reduce overheating coupled with a lighter hide. I believe Devons are best with Herefords second. Sitting under shade making a mess of each others udders is why calves are constantly having to be de-wormed.

I moved away from Galloways (yes they slick out in summer) in my climate from watching them froth and drool all summer at the water tank when it got above 80. With our humidity, it made no sense to have cattle unproductive and miserable during the growing season. That behavior stopped after moving to Herefords.

To the OP, there are many marketing channels besides the "barn". Most of the time the barn and packer are in direct opposition for what is truely efficient and profitable for the cow/calf guy.

just my opinion

 

[Taurus]

Instead of people, let's look at where the cattle originate from. Cold, dark, and rainy Scotland and parts of Galloway.

Providing shade?? That is exactly what ushered in G&S's success with sending Hereford bulls west. Bulls standing under shade and making a muck while Hereford bulls out rustling and breeding cows. When one starts to alter their environment to cater to a breed, not sure that is the best decision for one's resources. Heat tolerance is a function of skin thickness. Vascularity helps to reduce overheating coupled with a lighter hide. I believe Devons are best with Herefords second. Sitting under shade making a mess of each others udders is why calves are constantly having to be de-wormed.

I moved away from Galloways (yes they slick out in summer) in my climate from watching them froth and drool all summer at the water tank when it got above 80. With our humidity, it made no sense to have cattle unproductive and miserable during the growing season. That behavior stopped after moving to Herefords.

To the OP, there are many marketing channels besides the "barn". Most of the time the barn and packer are in direct opposition for what is truely efficient and profitable for the cow/calf guy.

just my opinion

That said, why they have to developing the google eyes in Hereford?

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Well if were going to post pictures of cattle in the sun then here's one from back in august. I was water because the ponds dried up, and it was in the 90's that day, but I will tell you that there was a breeze from the south which made it not seem so bad. They didn't seem to mind after having 90 degree weather since the beginning of may.

 

[AllForage]

Instead of people, let's look at where the cattle originate from. Cold, dark, and rainy Scotland and parts of Galloway.

Providing shade?? That is exactly what ushered in G&S's success with sending Hereford bulls west. Bulls standing under shade and making a muck while Hereford bulls out rustling and breeding cows. When one starts to alter their environment to cater to a breed, not sure that is the best decision for one's resources. Heat tolerance is a function of skin thickness. Vascularity helps to reduce overheating coupled with a lighter hide. I believe Devons are best with Herefords second. Sitting under shade making a mess of each others udders is why calves are constantly having to be de-wormed.

I moved away from Galloways (yes they slick out in summer) in my climate from watching them froth and drool all summer at the water tank when it got above 80. With our humidity, it made no sense to have cattle unproductive and miserable during the growing season. That behavior stopped after moving to Herefords.

To the OP, there are many marketing channels besides the "barn". Most of the time the barn and packer are in direct opposition for what is truely efficient and profitable for the cow/calf guy.

just my opinion

That said, why they have to developing the google eyes in Hereford?

Fads and misinformation. It seems to spread quickly. I believe most knowledgeable folks here have said that pigment does not have much to do with cancer eye. Besides I think most of the perceived problems with Herefords have become over blown due to the fact that they were 85% of the total beef herd.

 

[KNERSIE]

I think the term you're looking for is goggle eyes or raccoon eyes. The simple answer is because pigment sells.... because people are still misinformed.

 

[Craig]

I thought it was to help keep the flies out of their eyes. Thus, less problems with pinkeye. :?:

 

[dun]

I thought it was to help keep the flies out of their eyes. Thus, less problems with pinkeye. :?:

Pigment does, but they don;t have to have coon/goggle eyes to have pigment.

 

[Aaron]

I think the term you're looking for is goggle eyes or raccoon eyes. The simple answer is because pigment sells.... because people are still misinformed.

You want to explain that further?

 

[KNERSIE]

I think the term you're looking for is goggle eyes or raccoon eyes. The simple answer is because pigment sells.... because people are still misinformed.

You want to explain that further?

They think pigment will eliminate all eye problems, or atleast think the lack of pigment is the main cause of the eye problems. Run angus or jersey cattle, both have black eyelids, and you'll soon be an expert at treating opthalmia here. And yes I have first hand experience of both.

 

[Aaron]

I think the term you're looking for is goggle eyes or raccoon eyes. The simple answer is because pigment sells.... because people are still misinformed.

You want to explain that further?

They think pigment will eliminate all eye problems, or atleast think the lack of pigment is the main cause of the eye problems. Run angus or jersey cattle, both have black eyelids, and you'll soon be an expert at treating opthalmia here. And yes I have first hand experience of both.

Of course it won't eliminate all eye problems, but I have yet to read a read a study that suggests eye pigment offers no benefits for the Hereford breed in terms of prevention of cancer eye.

Your suggesting that because Angus and Jersey cattle get cancer eye in an area close to the Tropics, that pigmentation offers no all-encompassing benefit to cattle that do not live near the Tropics.

Quote in regards to cancer eye from Hered, 1991: "A genetic-environmental interaction is indicated, whereby an increasing amount of pigment lessens both susceptibility and the probability of lesion development, but whether lesions develop in the absence of pigment depends to a large extent on the amount of ultraviolet light to which the eye is exposed."

Perhaps with the intense exposure to sunlight in your part of the world, pigment is not enough?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Yep and a good supply of water.(not necesssarily cold) Djinwa did those articles say anything about why "people" around the equator and other hotter areas are "primarily black or dark brown" and if it is or is not an adaptation to handle heat?? The same for the very fair skinned people of Northern Europe?? What about using rectal temperatures as apposed to ear temps ?? Does white work better than black in colder areas??[/quote]

I would say the color of peoples skin would be due to sun burn and not so much for heat. A fair colored white guy will burn a lot worse than a darker colored person. Hair on an animal will stop the burning. But you notice a lighter uddered cow will get snow/sun burned there, due to not much hair. Just my opinion.[/quote]

We Northerner Europeans are blondes with blue eyes...

We are white because of the skins ability to collect vitamin-D. Pale skin does it better. Sun shine is quite a news here. Last year only handful of sunny days and winters sun is so far away that you cant see it in the darkest months. In the middle of the summer sun is up for 24 hours, but it mostly rain. [/quote] ...............If you where on the beaches of the gulf coast here,,, you could collect all the vitamin c you ever care to,, my ex is of irish decent... she was like tin foil in a microwave at the beach...thank the good Lord for Melanin.. i have irish blood to, but the Cherokee helped my skin tone and i dont burn any where near ..... look at this cave crawdad, aka crayfish somewhere else :cowboy: i remember seeing these as a kid in our caves around here,, blind and completely transparent ... no doubt years of canceling genes that were no use in the caves....http://hiddenrivercave.com/images/wwb_img41.jpg

 

[denvermartinfarms]

This is going to be a pretty controversal statement but, why are people using herefords if there getting docked big time at the salebarn?? even the feather neck black baldies get docked..... so why use them? i know there is a place for them but....

Around here there are alot of people that say, in this rough country you can have any kind of cattle you want as long as they are atleast 1/4 horned hereford. And i have to think there is something to that. I have a friend that 50 years ago started with 300 horned hereford cows, he ran them on 1000 acres wich for a long time was only about 400 open, and leased a few thousand acres of forest service land that was alot of timber but has glades and brush, he has never bought a cow in the last 50 years but for the last 25 he has had nothing but black angus bulls and now he has about 120 cows nearly all black a few reds but no white faces, they are all on the same 1000 acres that is now a little more open but he don't lease any land now. I say all that to say this, it is a very rough place and he never feeds hay, even through the winter when most people would feed 600 bales to this many cattle, he only brushogs half of it every other year and lets the brush get up high enough it will be above the snow.The point is these cattle are survivers they are allways the best at the sale, and they live through the winter on brush. so that is a place where just that touch of horned hereford is still there and i would say it's a good part of what makes this work.

 

[southernblues]

This is going to be a pretty controversal statement but, why are people using herefords if there getting docked big time at the salebarn?? even the feather neck black baldies get docked..... so why use them? i know there is a place for them but....

Around here there are alot of people that say, in this rough country you can have any kind of cattle you want as long as they are atleast 1/4 horned hereford. And i have to think there is something to that. I have a friend that 50 years ago started with 300 horned hereford cows, he ran them on 1000 acres wich for a long time was only about 400 open, and leased a few thousand acres of forest service land that was alot of timber but has glades and brush, he has never bought a cow in the last 50 years but for the last 25 he has had nothing but black angus bulls and now he has about 120 cows nearly all black a few reds but no white faces, they are all on the same 1000 acres that is now a little more open but he don't lease any land now. I say all that to say this, it is a very rough place and he never feeds hay, even through the winter when most people would feed 600 bales to this many cattle, he only brushogs half of it every other year and lets the brush get up high enough it will be above the snow.The point is these cattle are survivers they are allways the best at the sale, and they live through the winter on brush. so that is a place where just that touch of horned hereford is still there and i would say it's a good part of what makes this work.

Great story. I've got all polled and bought them last month due to their adaptability. I've heard good Horned genetics are the way to go for the hardiest of cattle out there.

 

[KNERSIE]

I've got both horned and poll herefords, bred the polls to be like I want them to be and they do extremely well here, started a horned herd in the last two years, didn't make all the rookie mistakes again... I'll leave it at good cattle are good no matter the horn status, poor doing cattle or cattle that fail to adapt are poor no matter their horn status.

It's all about type, not about the headgear.

 

[Aaron]

I've got both horned and poll herefords, bred the polls to be like I want them to be and they do extremely well here, started a horned herd in the last two years, didn't make all the rookie mistakes again... I'll leave it at good cattle are good no matter the horn status, poor doing cattle or cattle that fail to adapt are poor no matter their horn status.

It's all about type, not about the headgear.

It's all about the motive and objectives that one wants to achieve, so sometimes it is about the headgear. :cowboy: