Hereford??

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How well do Herefords, mainly bred heifers, hold up during our Texas summers mainly Mid June to Late August? This is pertaining to a low input grass fed beef operation. Calves will be raised for primarily for freezer beef.
 
M
back2dfuture":2s3k165r said:
How well do Herefords, mainly bred heifers, hold up during our Texas summers mainly Mid June to Late August? This is pertaining to a low input grass fed beef operation. Calves will be raised for primarily for freezer beef.


My understanding is pre-1969 TX was mostly Herefords. Then the frame race began.
 
Hereford FEEDER calves get docked because of the performance on the feedlot. They have proven to have too much fat making them have high YG - causing a discount - causing them to not want to pay for feeders at the salebarn. Maybe this is PERCEIVED problems from years past, but it still affects what feedlots want to pay.
All breeds have to live with PERCEIVED current problems that no longer exist (if there has actually been breed improvements).
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":1p66nnvu said:
Hereford FEEDER calves get docked because of the performance on the feedlot. They have proven to have too much fat making them have high YG - causing a discount - causing them to not want to pay for feeders at the salebarn. Maybe this is PERCEIVED problems from years past, but it still affects what feedlots want to pay.
All breeds have to live with PERCEIVED current problems that no longer exist (if there has actually been breed improvements).

Does the yield grade change at all if the Herefords you speak of are grazed until later yearling stage before being put to feed? Versus taking a 600 pounder and putting the feed to it?
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":3ecfspeh said:
Hereford FEEDER calves get docked because of the performance on the feedlot. They have proven to have too much fat making them have high YG - causing a discount - causing them to not want to pay for feeders at the salebarn. Maybe this is PERCEIVED problems from years past, but it still affects what feedlots want to pay.
All breeds have to live with PERCEIVED current problems that no longer exist (if there has actually been breed improvements).

Depends on genetics. I know of several feedlots who want Hereford and baldy feeder calves because of their good feed conversion. A valuable trait considering the cost of feed.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":150ku84t said:
Hereford FEEDER calves get docked because of the performance on the feedlot. They have proven to have too much fat making them have high YG - causing a discount - causing them to not want to pay for feeders at the salebarn. Maybe this is PERCEIVED problems from years past, but it still affects what feedlots want to pay.
All breeds have to live with PERCEIVED current problems that no longer exist (if there has actually been breed improvements).

Here hereford outperform simmental everyday in the feedlot, hands down, no contest on ADG, FCR and IMF.
 
Allforage, I'm glad to see you are posting on here again. I'm just a stupid Longhorn guy, but can clearly see you know cattle. I hate to admit it but KNERSIE ain't to shabby either.
 
I am not knocking the CAB premium for quality, just the related emphasis on hide color only.

I find Herefords are well suited to a lower-input beef production system. And they can still provide a high quality product. "
Good post. "can still provide". Hereford have allways been a quality product!
 
Here hereford outperform simmental everyday in the feedlot, hands down, no contest on ADG, FCR and IMF.[/quote]
Why us that? Just better Genetics because a Sim is a pretty darn good cow from the few I have seen. Thanks in advance. When are you going to dhow us some great momma Hereford?
 
Kingfisher":24bfhtsr said:
Here hereford outperform simmental everyday in the feedlot, hands down, no contest on ADG, FCR and IMF.
Why us that? Just better Genetics because a Sim is a pretty darn good cow from the few I have seen. Thanks in advance. When are you going to dhow us some great momma Hereford?[/quote]

Note that I said in the feedlot (and in a growth test situation where there is a 21 day adaption and 84 days on feed as is the standard here). When it comes to cow performance the simmental cow would (and should) outshine the hereford cow in good conditions, the true value of the hereford cow comes in when conditions aren't so favourable.
 
I will agree with Knersie on this. I would put my herefords up against any cattle in a drought situation where they have to hustle for feed and water. I think those black cattle would just be left in the dust.
 
KNERSIE":5pst906a said:
Kingfisher":5pst906a said:
Here hereford outperform simmental everyday in the feedlot, hands down, no contest on ADG, FCR and IMF.
Why us that? Just better Genetics because a Sim is a pretty darn good cow from the few I have seen. Thanks in advance. When are you going to dhow us some great momma Hereford?

Note that I said in the feedlot (and in a growth test situation where there is a 21 day adaption and 84 days on feed as is the standard here). When it comes to cow performance the simmental cow would (and should) outshine the hereford cow in good conditions, the true value of the hereford cow comes in when conditions aren't so favourable.[/quote]

Is this a good thing that a cow performs better if she gets more feed? Sounds like saying a car will go faster if you give it twice as much gas. Seems in the cattle business you're trying to get more pounds of product for the least amount of feed.
 
back2dfuture":56bguujm said:
How well do Herefords, mainly bred heifers, hold up during our Texas summers mainly Mid June to Late August? This is pertaining to a low input grass fed beef operation. Calves will be raised for primarily for freezer beef.

Take a ride out to far West Texas. Alpine, Marathon, Ft. Davis, etc. ..Herefords are all you see on the large ranches. Good herefords.
 
I recall a photo SRBeef posted with his Herefords lying facing the sun at sunset. Seemed romantic, but later I read that since cattle struggle to get rid of body heat, they will face the sun to minimize the surface area being hit by sun, and also be less direct exposure. I would also think the whiteface would be cooler.

I was reading this publication from the Southern Association of Agricultural Experiment Station Directors. It outlines various research interests to improve performance in challenging environments. A lot of good reading on various subjects. Here is a section discussing color and its effect on heat stress. Note that the black cattle had tympanic (eardrum) temps 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than lighter colors. 0.5 C equals 0.9 degrees Fahrenheit, which can be a significant difference in the heat and explains the greater heat stress in black cattle, meaning less profit.

http://nimss.umd.edu/homepages/outline. ... ckID=11616
Objective 4. Bonsma (1949) discussed the appropriate coloration of cattle to be resistant to high temperatures and high solar radiation as having a white, yellow or reddish brown hair coat with yellow, reddish brown or black skin. Finch et al. (1984) reported that dark red and red Brahman and Shorthorn steers had a higher absorption of solar radiation than white steers. Mader et al. (2002) examined the effect of hair color in feedlot steers during Nebraska summer months and found that tympanic temperatures of dark steers (including pre-dominantly black but some red) were 0.5º C higher during the afternoon and early evening than those of white (presumably Charolais crossbred) steers. The dark steers also panted more and tended to bunch more than white steers under warm conditions. In a subsequent study, Davis et al. (2003) compared the tympanic temperatures of black vs. white Charolais ´ Angus crossbred steers while under severe heat stress and being full-fed. The temperatures of black steers were higher throughout the day than those of white steers and averaged 0.5º C higher at 1900. Hutchinson and Brown (1969) reported that black hair coats absorb more solar radiation than white hair coats but that the radiation penetrated further into white than black hair coats. da Silva et al. (2003) examined the reflectance, transmittance, and absorptance of haircoat and skin of black, red, white, and gray hide samples from Bos taurus and Bos indicus cattle. Red coats reflected more of the solar radiation than black, and white and gray coats tended to reflect even more.
 
djinwa":2d9190qi said:
I recall a photo SRBeef posted with his Herefords lying facing the sun at sunset. Seemed romantic, but later I read that since cattle struggle to get rid of body heat, they will face the sun to minimize the surface area being hit by sun, and also be less direct exposure. I would also think the whiteface would be cooler.

I was reading this publication from the Southern Association of Agricultural Experiment Station Directors. It outlines various research interests to improve performance in challenging environments. A lot of good reading on various subjects. Here is a section discussing color and its effect on heat stress. Note that the black cattle had tympanic (eardrum) temps 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than lighter colors. 0.5 C equals 0.9 degrees Fahrenheit, which can be a significant difference in the heat and explains the greater heat stress in black cattle, meaning less profit.

http://nimss.umd.edu/homepages/outline. ... ckID=11616
Objective 4. Bonsma (1949) discussed the appropriate coloration of cattle to be resistant to high temperatures and high solar radiation as having a white, yellow or reddish brown hair coat with yellow, reddish brown or black skin. Finch et al. (1984) reported that dark red and red Brahman and Shorthorn steers had a higher absorption of solar radiation than white steers. Mader et al. (2002) examined the effect of hair color in feedlot steers during Nebraska summer months and found that tympanic temperatures of dark steers (including pre-dominantly black but some red) were 0.5º C higher during the afternoon and early evening than those of white (presumably Charolais crossbred) steers. The dark steers also panted more and tended to bunch more than white steers under warm conditions. In a subsequent study, Davis et al. (2003) compared the tympanic temperatures of black vs. white Charolais ´ Angus crossbred steers while under severe heat stress and being full-fed. The temperatures of black steers were higher throughout the day than those of white steers and averaged 0.5º C higher at 1900. Hutchinson and Brown (1969) reported that black hair coats absorb more solar radiation than white hair coats but that the radiation penetrated further into white than black hair coats. da Silva et al. (2003) examined the reflectance, transmittance, and absorptance of haircoat and skin of black, red, white, and gray hide samples from Bos taurus and Bos indicus cattle. Red coats reflected more of the solar radiation than black, and white and gray coats tended to reflect even more.
Provide adequate shade and the color/sun heat issues "melt away"
 
dun":1n02w675 said:
Provide adequate shade and the color/sun heat issues "melt away"

Yep and a good supply of water.(not necesssarily cold) Djinwa did those articles say anything about why "people" around the equator and other hotter areas are "primarily black or dark brown" and if it is or is not an adaptation to handle heat?? The same for the very fair skinned people of Northern Europe?? What about using rectal temperatures as apposed to ear temps ?? Does white work better than black in colder areas??
 
TexasBred":27m9ujb6 said:
dun":27m9ujb6 said:
Provide adequate shade and the color/sun heat issues "melt away"

Yep and a good supply of water.(not necesssarily cold) Djinwa did those articles say anything about why "people" around the equator and other hotter areas are "primarily black or dark brown" and if it is or is not an adaptation to handle heat?? The same for the very fair skinned people of Northern Europe?? What about using rectal temperatures as apposed to ear temps ?? Does white work better than black in colder areas??

TB-
I read the article and it did not mention this.
 
I agree Dun, shade and water will make a huge difference. But where the problem occurs is in feedlots in July and August where there is no shade. I don't understand people feeding black cattle in the summer with all the stress that is already there with the ration. Sprinklers help, but when you tour, it is primarily English blacks that are in the necropsy pile.

The 0.5 degrees isn't really that huge of a difference. But that doesn't really tell the whole story either. The problem is not the measured average temperature, the problem is the amount of work the cow is having to perform to keep the temperature at that level.

The numbers that should reach out and grab you, are the differences in surface temperatures. I believe I read in a study, that the black cattle were reaching temperatures 20 to 25 degrees higher :shock:.

I'm not bashing black cattle. There is more to heat adaption than just color. But it is part of the equation. I would like to see more shade developed in feed lots, some way or another.
 
TexasBred":2dxn89q5 said:
dun":2dxn89q5 said:
Provide adequate shade and the color/sun heat issues "melt away"

Yep and a good supply of water.(not necesssarily cold) Djinwa did those articles say anything about why "people" around the equator and other hotter areas are "primarily black or dark brown" and if it is or is not an adaptation to handle heat?? The same for the very fair skinned people of Northern Europe?? What about using rectal temperatures as apposed to ear temps ?? Does white work better than black in colder areas??

I would say the color of peoples skin would be due to sun burn and not so much for heat. A fair colored white guy will burn a lot worse than a darker colored person. Hair on an animal will stop the burning. But you notice a lighter uddered cow will get snow/sun burned there, due to not much hair. Just my opinion.
 
BRG":5ldm6cad said:
I would say the color of peoples skin would be due to sun burn and not so much for heat. A fair colored white guy will burn a lot worse than a darker colored person. Hair on an animal will stop the burning. But you notice a lighter uddered cow will get snow/sun burned there, due to not much hair. Just my opinion.

A latinos are dark brown no matter where they live......The negroids are black where ever they live unless they are crossed.....but it is an adaptation from long long ago due to intensity of sunlight and length of days.Sun shield perhaps??
 

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