Heifer price

[greybeard]

off topic but Things sure have changed.....first calf I ever had was a registered Angus heifer--about 8 months old. $375 and my father thought that was an outrageous price--1966.

 

[poorfarmer]

I would point out that mashing the scales doesn't mean a whole lot if efficiency isn't there or for some who retain ownership throughout have to consider other things such as how they will grade. And just out of curiosity how many of you who think papers on heifers are worthless, buy registered bulls

 

[Caustic Burno]

I would point out that mashing the scales doesn't mean a whole lot if efficiency isn't there or for some who retain ownership throughout have to consider other things such as how they will grade. And just out of curiosity how many of you who think papers on heifers are worthless, buy registered bulls

Retaining heifers in a terminal commercial operation has loser written all over it.
You can never make a registered cow pay out in a commercial operation again you are fooling yourself if you think they will.

 

[u4411clb]

True I will give you a roll of toilet paper with every one of my heifers.
Paper doesn't mash scales and means nothing to to me as stated.

FIFY. I might should have not capitalized LOT, but I do have an interest in that info. But I guess I don't qualify as commercial cowman, since mine are not registered and all. I have a neighbor that couldn't care less about knowing how his cows are bred, but he gets most of his at the sale barn. Not a lot of info there normally, and wouldn't matter if there was. But he also don't cut, doubt he vaccinates/worms, doesn't care if he has two calves that matches out of 75. But, he's still in business, so he's doing something right. There are a number of commercial guys here buying purebred cows and putting registered bulls on them so they know what they have. Those seem to be the ones that looks like they have a cookie cutter calf maker, and that's what I am trying to do. Even five head that match will get a few more cents a pound here it seems.

Not needing papers is not the same thing as not knowing what breed or even the lines of your cattle. A commercial guy may want to purchase a heifer that is from a Brangus momma and Horned Hereford bull and that may be all he purchases. Are there any papers for a cow like that not that I am aware of but you can't beat her as a momma cow.

I myself prefer heifers from a Gert momma and a Horned Hereford bull. That is what I am starting to use and I have no papers but I know what is in my cows and how they should perform on my place. So my point is not needing registered cows does not neccessarily mean you are running mongrel cows either.

Every study I have seen has said that cross bred momma cows produce more pounds and for a longer period of time. I have no idea why a commercial guy would want registered cows anyway unless he is making his own replacements like we do as well. But as far as going in the commercial operation no thanks give me a good commercial girl everytime and her papers make a good napkin.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Posted this on another thread by Riley and I firmly believe in his principles.

http://msucares.com/livestock/beef/geneticslunch4.pdf

 

[talltimber]

FIFY. I might should have not capitalized LOT, but I do have an interest in that info. But I guess I don't qualify as commercial cowman, since mine are not registered and all. I have a neighbor that couldn't care less about knowing how his cows are bred, but he gets most of his at the sale barn. Not a lot of info there normally, and wouldn't matter if there was. But he also don't cut, doubt he vaccinates/worms, doesn't care if he has two calves that matches out of 75. But, he's still in business, so he's doing something right. There are a number of commercial guys here buying purebred cows and putting registered bulls on them so they know what they have. Those seem to be the ones that looks like they have a cookie cutter calf maker, and that's what I am trying to do. Even five head that match will get a few more cents a pound here it seems.

Not needing papers is not the same thing as not knowing what breed or even the lines of your cattle. A commercial guy may want to purchase a heifer that is from a Brangus momma and Horned Hereford bull and that may be all he purchases. Are there any papers for a cow like that not that I am aware of but you can't beat her as a momma cow.

I myself prefer heifers from a Gert momma and a Horned Hereford bull. That is what I am starting to use and I have no papers but I know what is in my cows and how they should perform on my place. So my point is not needing registered cows does not neccessarily mean you are running mongrel cows either.

Every study I have seen has said that cross bred momma cows produce more pounds and for a longer period of time. I have no idea why a commercial guy would want registered cows anyway unless he is making his own replacements like we do as well. But as far as going in the commercial operation no thanks give me a good commercial girl everytime and her papers make a good napkin.

I might have/do misunderstand. But it seems you and I think exactly alike? It appears what I bolded is saying the same thing I am? Without papers, (to refer to) you don't know what you have, unless you know them personally, other than what looks to be a Gert/Hereford cross? As in papers to give you some epd's (what they're worth is another discussion) but it's more to go on than just a black cow, in my case. Unless, of course, you are saying you are looking at the epd's of the registered cow (or her sire/dam), and those of the registered bull (or his sire/dam) for some kind of numbers to go off of. If you are saying that you are content with knowing they are simply out of a Gert/Hereford, then I can see your point, and so I assume you are not interested in the numbers. Not you personally, necessarily, but anyone that says papers mean nothing to them ( I am meaning that ACCESS to papers/registration #'s for epd's, not requiring the purchased animals be registered), I am assuming they are content with what they are getting in calves already, or are not trying to improve their situation, or looking to improve the value of their calves by making them more profitable downstream. Either finishing them yourself, or creating a draw for backgrounders to what your (our/my) calves can accomplish.
I am trying to learn as well as describe my thoughts here, no disrespect or argumentative intention here at all. Admittedly, I am operating mostly on theory at this point in my beef production, and what experienced commercial cattlemen here have demonstrated or told me personally or by their actions/buying habits. I have a touch of ocd that lends itself to this kind of project, but if anyone can tell me that x bull will give me what I want with x cow, with some certainty other than "maybe" I am all for it. I can go obsess on something else for a while.

If I am trying too hard, or making this venture into something way bigger than it should be, then for god's sake somebody stop me. :lol:

 

[u4411clb]

Yes the Gert mommas and the Hereford bulls that my cows come off of are registered stock. Have I ever seen the papers from the Gert mommas no I haven't and have no desire too. I am sure there is some way to combine the epd numbers from the AHA and SGBI associations but I have never gave it any thought. I do use the eye test and I do not like to choose the top 10% as far as biggest or the fastest growing when choosing replacements to purchase as I have found those heifers don't seem to stick around as long. I have found if you pick structurally sound heifers that are the right size for their age and you can look at their parents I can make about as good a decision for my operation as looking at epd's.

And from that I use trial and error to weed out the ones that stick around and the ones that grow wheels. You have to remember epds are just an expectation a fancy word for guess. You can go through epds with a fine tooth comb and still have to cull a certain number of replacements. Pick the ones that breed back and calf without issue and raise a calf every year and get rid of the rest and you will be ok on the commercial side imo.

To be honest and I know most will disagree with me. I look at feet and confirmation along with disposition and some guess as how they perform on fescue pastures as my main criteria in picking heifers. If they have that and are the right size for their age that is what I have found works for me.

Now as far as my Angus bulls I do go over the epd's because I have found that is what buyers want to here from me. I can spit out there YW epd's and $B and $F. And I have found that buyers at least in my area want to know the info on the bulls used and that the calves are at least verifiable 50% angus and no more than a 1/4 Brahman and they are happy. They would prefer some continental but I haven't found a way to make that work for me.

I also do have a small herd of registered Gert mommas and a Reg hereford bull. I did not even keep the papers on the Gert mommas I guess they are in a desk somewhere. And on the Hereford bull I did look at his epds but he was in no way the top as far as growth epd's in his group. And I had first choice of a group of about 40 yearlings that over half were AI sired and the bull I chose was from a cleanup bull that the owner a Hereford breeder in my area for many many years had kept whose numbers didn't stack up with the Ai bulls growth wise. But this bull performed in my environment and thrived on fescue pastures more than the others and his mom was a Dam of distinction and I could not be more happy with the replacements he has given me.

EPD's are a tool and I do look at them when picking my Angus bulls to give the buyers what they want but when it comes to my female replacements I just don't have any use for them. I am not trying to create bulls for people to buy or curb benders. I am trying to create steers and heifers that go to the feedlot and perform. I will let the purebred guys do the scientific scanning and numbers and embryo transfers etc part (I don't get paid for that) and will stick to my old cowboy sense for my part.

 

[Kingfisher]

Yes the Gert mommas and the Hereford bulls that my cows come off of are registered stock. Have I ever seen the papers from the Gert mommas no I haven't and have no desire too. I am sure there is some way to combine the epd numbers from the AHA and SGBI associations but I have never gave it any thought. I do use the eye test and I do not like to choose the top 10% as far as biggest or the fastest growing when choosing replacements to purchase as I have found those heifers don't seem to stick around as long. I have found if you pick structurally sound heifers that are the right size for their age and you can look at their parents I can make about as good a decision for my operation as looking at epd's.

And from that I use trial and error to weed out the ones that stick around and the ones that grow wheels. You have to remember epds are just an expectation a fancy word for guess. You can go through epds with a fine tooth comb and still have to cull a certain number of replacements. Pick the ones that breed back and calf without issue and raise a calf every year and get rid of the rest and you will be ok on the commercial side imo.

To be honest and I know most will disagree with me. I look at feet and confirmation along with disposition and some guess as how they perform on fescue pastures as my main criteria in picking heifers. If they have that and are the right size for their age that is what I have found works for me.

Now as far as my Angus bulls I do go over the epd's because I have found that is what buyers want to here from me. I can spit out there YW epd's and $B and $F. And I have found that buyers at least in my area want to know the info on the bulls used and that the calves are at least verifiable 50% angus and no more than a 1/4 Brahman and they are happy. They would prefer some continental but I haven't found a way to make that work for me.

I also do have a small herd of registered Gert mommas and a Reg hereford bull. I did not even keep the papers on the Gert mommas I guess they are in a desk somewhere. And on the Hereford bull I did look at his epds but he was in no way the top as far as growth epd's in his group. And I had first choice of a group of about 40 yearlings that over half were AI sired and the bull I chose was from a cleanup bull that the owner a Hereford breeder in my area for many many years had kept whose numbers didn't stack up with the Ai bulls growth wise. But this bull performed in my environment and thrived on fescue pastures more than the others and his mom was a Dam of distinction and I could not be more happy with the replacements he has given me.

EPD's are a tool and I do look at them when picking my Angus bulls to give the buyers what they want but when it comes to my female replacements I just don't have any use for them. I am not trying to create bulls for people to buy or curb benders. I am trying to create steers and heifers that go to the feedlot and perform. I will let the purebred guys do the scientific scanning and numbers and embryo transfers etc part (I don't get paid for that) and will stick to my old cowboy sense for my part.

Geez how many cows are you talking about? 40 or 4oo or?

 

[True Grit Farms]

Papers can and will give you an idea of what to expect calf wise. But contrary to what some bull of the month breeders think, there not all keepers. The Tifton heifer sale was yesterday and good heifers sold good, with or without papers. I'm on the outside looking in, but I think breeding for heifers is where the money's at. If you AI anybody can buy a good bull.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have ran a commercial and registered herd did for years had a good market for the Bulls . When I sold down kept the commercial girls that produce into their 20's with big heavy calves that grade.
Most of these girls drop a calf every 10 to 11 months none go over 12 or there gone. You can talk about efficiency very few or any will beat these girls on grass only and minerals. The cows are out there cattlemen aren't too much pasture and paper blindness. Lots of money changes hands in the cow biz very little stays in most producers pocket. Ask a cowman what his daily cost are or the true cost of retaining a heifer most don't have a clue.

 

[u4411clb]

Yes the Gert mommas and the Hereford bulls that my cows come off of are registered stock. Have I ever seen the papers from the Gert mommas no I haven't and have no desire too. I am sure there is some way to combine the epd numbers from the AHA and SGBI associations but I have never gave it any thought. I do use the eye test and I do not like to choose the top 10% as far as biggest or the fastest growing when choosing replacements to purchase as I have found those heifers don't seem to stick around as long. I have found if you pick structurally sound heifers that are the right size for their age and you can look at their parents I can make about as good a decision for my operation as looking at epd's.

And from that I use trial and error to weed out the ones that stick around and the ones that grow wheels. You have to remember epds are just an expectation a fancy word for guess. You can go through epds with a fine tooth comb and still have to cull a certain number of replacements. Pick the ones that breed back and calf without issue and raise a calf every year and get rid of the rest and you will be ok on the commercial side imo.

To be honest and I know most will disagree with me. I look at feet and confirmation along with disposition and some guess as how they perform on fescue pastures as my main criteria in picking heifers. If they have that and are the right size for their age that is what I have found works for me.

Now as far as my Angus bulls I do go over the epd's because I have found that is what buyers want to here from me. I can spit out there YW epd's and $B and $F. And I have found that buyers at least in my area want to know the info on the bulls used and that the calves are at least verifiable 50% angus and no more than a 1/4 Brahman and they are happy. They would prefer some continental but I haven't found a way to make that work for me.

I also do have a small herd of registered Gert mommas and a Reg hereford bull. I did not even keep the papers on the Gert mommas I guess they are in a desk somewhere. And on the Hereford bull I did look at his epds but he was in no way the top as far as growth epd's in his group. And I had first choice of a group of about 40 yearlings that over half were AI sired and the bull I chose was from a cleanup bull that the owner a Hereford breeder in my area for many many years had kept whose numbers didn't stack up with the Ai bulls growth wise. But this bull performed in my environment and thrived on fescue pastures more than the others and his mom was a Dam of distinction and I could not be more happy with the replacements he has given me.

EPD's are a tool and I do look at them when picking my Angus bulls to give the buyers what they want but when it comes to my female replacements I just don't have any use for them. I am not trying to create bulls for people to buy or curb benders. I am trying to create steers and heifers that go to the feedlot and perform. I will let the purebred guys do the scientific scanning and numbers and embryo transfers etc part (I don't get paid for that) and will stick to my old cowboy sense for my part.

Geez how many cows are you talking about? 40 or 4oo or?

Only about 62 commercial females with 2 Angus bulls and 11 Gerts with 1 Hereford bull. So less than a 100 but would like to add about 20 to 30 more and also eventually ship out the Brangus, Angus, Chiangus type momma cows from the herd.

But do partner with 2 other guys to sell our calves in lots if that is what you are asking.