Heard a rumor yesterday.

[Bigfoot]

Can not believe I'm posting this. But, maybe I should. I have a family member (female 20 years old). I suspicion she is depressed. Mental illness/depression/ and suicide are actually quit common in her mothers family. I've thought about her 100 times in the last couple of days. Due to her quit nature, and my boisterous nature, we're not very close. She still lives at home, how in the world do you approach something like that? I believe that she would tell her parents if she was in very bad shape. I also believe they would see the signs. The signs are fairly obvious to me though (if I'm not imagining them). She is plastering social media, with how happy and blessed that she is. She may be that happy, and I hope she is. My gut tells me other wise. A sprinklin of our users probably have some training on stuff like this. Do people sometimes overly portray themselves as happy, when they are depressed.

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/st...ty-pennsylvania-runner-showed-only-part-story

I thought this article sounded a lot like what you are talking about as far as masking depression while showing themselves to be happy on social media. I read this a while back and felt I learned something from it.

Glad you posted that.
My wife and I discussed it at length this afternoon. She said 20 was a difficult age for people. Wasn't for me. Maybe that's why I don't understand.

I can see how a young lady could get tricked by all the positive things people post. Try to match it, and end up feeling even worse.

Nobodies life is perfect. I guess we just get to where we linger on the good, and ignore the bad. Maybe some people do just the opposite.

 

[bball]

bball, we needed that lecture! Thanks.

I don't know if in my entire life, I have seen a victim of suicide blamed. I have always been part of the crowd that assumed they were lost in the darkness of their thoughts. Hopeless. In tremendous pain.

I never thought about a teen committing suicide for not making the baseball team. Seems there would have to be other factors.

My son Clint was in elementary school soccer. He was average at best but he enjoyed it. He was playing goalie and missed a ball. His teammates booed him. Poor guy walked over to me and said, "Dad, I want to go home." I said all the things a parent says at those moments but it did no good. He looked at me and was not crying or distressed. Just simply said it was no longer important to him. I took him home. I was amazed that he was not upset.

So, hard to believe that young man you used in the example did not have other things going on. Like you said, there was something in his life causing him tremendous pain.

Sorry it came off as a lecture. Going on minimal sleep in the midst of a long work stretch. Tad edgy.

That one hit close to home because I had a son at the same age when it happened. My children knew his sister. He left her a note explaining why. Sounds like he felt lIke sports was his only escape. Sad. His dad is a pillar in the community.
Chemicals, synapses and neurons have an awful lot tod o with how we cope, perceive, value. Again, I apologize if I became salty. Humanity is rarely as simple as we would like to boil it down to sometimes.

I don't want to poke a tired ball.
But he topic here was a grown man who took his life over a business loss.
To compare a disturbed youth is like the save the children battle cry.
A poor comparison to a man in the other post who committed sucicide because of a dwi. He should have paid his fine, did his time and quit drinking. Made his wrongs right. You can blame it on chemicals in the brain , you can blame any human action on that.

You and Prince can yell from the rafters that it's ok. And chase it with modern science. Good luck.

I will continue to teach mine that it is a disgraceful and cowardly act. The ultimate disgrace to yourself and God. The way it was seen generations ago.
Wonder when suicide rates were lower???

I appreciate you not poking too hard fence. Guess all I'm trying to say is that usually, when someone achieves suicide, there is more to it than just the trigger event. I never said it was OK either. I'm forced to deal with these things on a fairly regular basis; grown men, woman and children. It sucks. I don't get the luxury of dismissing it and the science of why it happens. It's very real. Some of these people are very tortured. I couldn't imagine living in a world where nothing brings happiness or joy. Not my wife, children, friends...nothing. I'm a simple fella who enjoys the simple things in life- a good woman's love, a cold beer, tasty BBQ, even hard work I find enjoyable. These folks don't get that pleasure- from anything. Complete and utter hopelessness and despair. You're right fence, the topic was a fella who ended it all reportedly over financial loss. I don't know his history or anymore about it, but I suspect there are many more factors (that he may have been kept hidden from his own family).
As far as teaching your own, well, that's between you and your own. No one is telling you what to teach. Certainly not me. Every man renders accounting for himself and i got my hands full with me and mine.

 

[NECowboy]

I think social media is terrible. You only get to see the best accomplishments, pictures of people's lives, and it's like one giant pissing contest to portray oneself in the desired light. You don't see the struggles and spend way too much time living the "enviable" parts of another person's life rather than your own. At 20 years old, a girl is still very image conscious and finding her way. Tough part in her life as women judged way more on image than men (as men we are partially guilty since we judge so harshly on perfect looks and not who the real woman is behind the looks at that age.) Not much of a support network for young women as women all so competitive with each other and backstabby to each other it would be rough. I think my wife is glad to be out of that phase of her life and I am glad to be out of that age too even though it wasn't so terrible for me. We stay off social media it's a waste of time.

 

[Ojp6]

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/st...ty-pennsylvania-runner-showed-only-part-story

I thought this article sounded a lot like what you are talking about as far as masking depression while showing themselves to be happy on social media. I read this a while back and felt I learned something from it.

Very sad.

I agree, I read that story over a year ago and still remember the quote from her note to her parents.
"I thought how unpleasant it was to be locked out, and I thought how it is worse perhaps to be locked in,"

I've spent a while thinking about the meaning of that.

 

[bball]

Its interesting how many in our society can be quick to dismiss the legitimacy of mental illness and its effects. No one questions when some one has a massive MI and dies. Its visual. You watched him smoke, you noticed he was heavy, and ate unhealthy foods. You were aware that he lived a sedentary lifestyle. You knew his dad and granddad both died of cardiac issues. No one questions the reality of this disease process. But, afflictions to the brain, another story. Unless it manifests in particularly disturbing fashion with real sensory stimulation for us to articulate; well, we tend to dismiss it. Depression is easy to dismiss, especially if one has never felt it or been around someone close to them that has it. Its cues are soft and subtle. Stress affects each of us differently- on a chemical level. Different brains manage those chemicals on different levels. Its why some people handle pressure well and others can be paralyzed by the same pressure.

The link is a sad one, and at the same time a perfect example of how equally damaging mental illness can be compared to illnesses of the body. Point being, when those struggling with a mental illness are placed under enough pressure or stress, suicide is often the last attempt at regaining control-its the last thing that person literally has control over. Namely, living or dying. Living seems impossible or too hopeless in their minds. The signs are usually not transparent like elevated cardiac markers or elevated ST segments. Even those closest can miss them; until retrospectively evaluating. Even then, clarity is like looking through frosted glass.

 

[greybeard]

Its interesting how many in our society can be quick to dismiss the legitimacy of mental illness and its effects. No one questions when some one has a massive MI and dies. Its visual. You watched him smoke, you noticed he was heavy, and ate unhealthy foods. You were aware that he lived a sedentary lifestyle. You knew his dad and granddad both died of cardiac issues. No one questions the reality of this disease process. But, afflictions to the brain, another story. Unless it manifests in particularly disturbing fashion with real sensory stimulation for us to articulate; well, we tend to dismiss it.

More sad than 'interesting', but it's somewhat understanding. We all tend to view everyone else and their actions from our own perspective. Our own brains work 'right', as advertised, so we tend to assume that everyone else's can and do as well. We have full control over our physical actions and even a lot of our thoughts--some people do not. Science long ago understood that electrical impulses were a big part of brain activity--it could be seen and measured so it was easily accepted. It was also easily accepted by everyone that when physical conduits of those impulses--neural pathways-were broken or interrupted, things like thoughts and physical actions were not going to 'work right'.

The chemical side tho, was and still is, very much more difficult to understand. We all know certain chemicals affect mentalities--alcohol, the thc in marijuana, the caffeine in our coffee, but the body, all by itself, also uses chemicals every second of the day, and when those chemicals are out of whack or even missing, bad things happen, but our mental capacity to know bad things are happening is also often impaired, and no amount of preaching, teaching, extolling or begging the person to 'just stop doing that' or 'just stop thinking that' or 'just don't do that' is ever going to work, but many still believe t will, simply because it works with ourselves. But, 'we' have perfectly working brains (physically, chemically and electrically), so we continue to believe that everyone else does as well--we don't have the ability to walk in that imbalanced person's shoes because we've simply never experienced it ourselves, and thus we are either in denial that it is a possibility or lack the education and thus the understanding of what role chemicals plays in our mental state.

We all fully know and understand, that even with perfect rainfall, if we get the pH, the N,P,K and trace elements in our soil wrong, (as well as the other trace elements) that no amount of standing out there in the pasture commanding the grass to grow is ever going to work. Why is it so hard to understand, that we as a living organism, also has to have all the chems exactly right as well?

 

[Commercialfarmer]

The brain is a wondrous glob of tissue. It's beyond our ability to fully appreciate all the creativity it is capable of, or all the reasoning of the most astute of our kind.

There are billions of females on this planet, but the chemical interaction in a boy's brain can make him give up everything for the fix he gets by a particular one. That should be the definition of insanity.

How emotions come to exist in the first place, or even a thought is amazing. The basic machinery of the body is ran without ever a consideration by the conscious mind.

But, I don't think there is a perfect brain. I think they all have their own idiosyncrasies, deficiencies.

There absolutely are diseases of the mind. But it was interesting to me to learn that the mental hospitals have increased rates of occupancy during holidays. They have increased rates during economical down turns. Stress is a factor.

Makes me wonder how much of the disease might even be self inflicted to some degree? A difference of focusing on despair instead of hope?

I tend to think that we have a will. Closely associated with the brain, but not limited by physical nature. An ability to some degree to alter function. As some thoughts do, they pop into the mind. But it is the will's ability to choose to displace, ignore these thoughts. Or it's the will's ability to foster them. Maybe consider it an override. There are impulses that we all have, but we don't act on them all. There's an override that says, wait! Bad idea.

I don't know, but wonder if it's not that sometimes people lose sight that they can have a hand in the matter and just give in to the diseased or depressed mind. Maybe they unintentionally feed the depression. In some instances, maybe life is very hard and maybe seems insurmountable. But instead of focusing on the mountain ahead, they need to just stop for a moment and breath.

I wonder if hope isn't maybe a drug that should be used more and some of the ones coming out of the pharmacies less. Not saying all. (Reading some the psychiatry literature is rather scary. Seems to be a large amount of trial and error with various concoctions until you get a response that is acceptable.)

Maybe there is disease of the brain, and disease of the will? Closely related but yet different.

 

[bball]

The brain is a wondrous glob of tissue. It's beyond our ability to fully appreciate all the creativity it is capable of, or all the reasoning of the most astute of our kind.

There are billions of females on this planet, but the chemical interaction in a boy's brain can make him give up everything for the fix he gets by a particular one. That should be the definition of insanity.

How emotions come to exist in the first place, or even a thought is amazing. The basic machinery of the body is ran without ever a consideration by the conscious mind.

But, I don't think there is a perfect brain. I think they all have their own idiosyncrasies, deficiencies.

There absolutely are diseases of the mind. But it was interesting to me to learn that the mental hospitals have increased rates of occupancy during holidays. They have increased rates during economical down turns. Stress is a factor.

Makes me wonder how much of the disease might even be self inflicted to some degree? A difference of focusing on despair instead of hope?

I tend to think that we have a will. Closely associated with the brain, but not limited by physical nature. An ability to some degree to alter function. As some thoughts do, they pop into the mind. But it is the will's ability to choose to displace, ignore these thoughts. Or it's the will's ability to foster them. Maybe consider it an override. There are impulses that we all have, but we don't act on them all. There's an override that says, wait! Bad idea.

I don't know, but wonder if it's not that sometimes people lose sight that they can have a hand in the matter and just give in to the diseased or depressed mind. Maybe they unintentionally feed the depression. In some instances, maybe life is very hard and maybe seems insurmountable. But instead of focusing on the mountain ahead, they need to just stop for a moment and breath.

I wonder if hope isn't maybe a drug that should be used more and some of the ones coming out of the pharmacies less. Not saying all. (Reading some the psychiatry literature is rather scary. Seems to be a large amount of trial and error with various concoctions until you get a response that is acceptable.)

Maybe there is disease of the brain, and disease of the will? Closely related but yet different.

Now there is a question i have also pondered. Why do some suffer from mental illness while some do not. Especially siblings? Similiar genetics. hopefully, similiar environmental influences. Why can one brother endure great hardship and remain positive about life while his brother can not?
The holidays also see spikes in suicide rates. Seasonal affective disorder is a real diagnosis and exen possibly explainable based on decresed serotonin levels due to less sunlight/gloomy weather of winter.
One of the reasons i believe mental illness isnt 'taken as seriously' as others physical disease processes is because so much is hypothesis, trial and error. Every brain is different and endures different experiences as it grows and develops. Thereby, controlling or managing chemical levels like serotonin, norepinephrine, GABA, or dopamine becomes very challenging on a case by case basis. Especially see this in psych meds. No two people truly respond the same. Conversely, meds that control BP or HR are far easier to manage and control compared to the brain.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I'll leave mental illness to all the professionals out there to figure out how to treat it. Because after all they've done such a great job on cancer. Mental illness is another money grab by the AMA, just like cancer. IMO
The majority of people I know who committed suicide were receiving help and taking drugs to help them. I saw how that worked out for them first hand.

 

[inyati13]

Wow. This thread has me depressed.

 

[inyati13]

There are all kinds of coping mechanisms. I would rather be crazy than depressed. Crazy people enjoy life. Saw a guy sitting in the park in Denver. Ask me for money. I started talking to him. He said he was an astronaut for NASA. Needed the money to buy a new space suit. I gave him $5. He was so happy, we both got a beer at the nearest bar.

 

[callmefence]

There are all kinds of coping mechanisms. I would rather be crazy than depressed. Crazy people enjoy life. Saw a guy sitting in the park in Denver. Ask me for money. I started talking to him. He said he was an astronaut for NASA. Needed the money to buy a new space suit. I gave him $5. He was so happy, we both got a beer at the nearest bar.

Did you buy, or did he have to get into his space suit money

 

[inyati13]

There are all kinds of coping mechanisms. I would rather be crazy than depressed. Crazy people enjoy life. Saw a guy sitting in the park in Denver. Ask me for money. I started talking to him. He said he was an astronaut for NASA. Needed the money to buy a new space suit. I gave him $5. He was so happy, we both got a beer at the nearest bar.

Did you buy, or did he have to get into his space suit money

I told him I would buy if he would take me on one orbit of the earth.

 

[Rafter S]

There are all kinds of coping mechanisms. I would rather be crazy than depressed. Crazy people enjoy life. Saw a guy sitting in the park in Denver. Ask me for money. I started talking to him. He said he was an astronaut for NASA. Needed the money to buy a new space suit. I gave him $5. He was so happy, we both got a beer at the nearest bar.

Did you buy, or did he have to get into his space suit money

I told him I would buy if he would take me on one orbit of the earth.

That sounds like a pretty good deal.

 

[Bestoutwest]

People get up and decided to kill themselves all the time.
It's very common after a major market crash.
Simply to weak and cowardly to clean up their own mess. You can paint anything from Suicide to murder to sexual predators with the term mental illness. A man that bails on his family or the life God gave him , is a coward.

A person that is terminal ill is a entirely different situation.

Calling someone a coward, from behind a keyboard, is a pretty cowardly act.

You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to mental illness. Shut up.

 

[Bestoutwest]

I'll leave mental illness to all the professionals out there to figure out how to treat it. Because after all they've done such a great job on cancer. Mental illness is another money grab by the AMA, just like cancer. IMO
The majority of people I know who committed suicide were receiving help and taking drugs to help them. I saw how that worked out for them first hand.

It's amazing to read your posts......

 

[callmefence]

People get up and decided to kill themselves all the time.
It's very common after a major market crash.
Simply to weak and cowardly to clean up their own mess. You can paint anything from Suicide to murder to sexual predators with the term mental illness. A man that bails on his family or the life God gave him , is a coward.

A person that is terminal ill is a entirely different situation.

Calling someone a coward, from behind a keyboard, is a pretty cowardly act.

You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to mental illness. Shut up.

Telling someone to shut up from behind a keyboard is cowardly.

My grandmother and my mother and my wife have all worked for mhmr.
My aunt is severely mentally retarded

I will say what I dam well please and you won't do a thing about it....that's a fact

 

[Commercialfarmer]

My aunt is severely mentally retarded.

The fact that so many in her situation live a happier existence than most of us has a lesson it somewhere.

 

[Bestoutwest]

Telling someone to shut up from behind a keyboard is cowardly.

My grandmother and my mother and my wife have all worked for mhmr.
My aunt is severely mentally retarded

I will say what I dam well please and you won't do a thing about it....that's a fact

Mental retardation and depression are apples and oranges....that's a fact.

Let me share a story with you from my travels in life. I was working at a hospital a few years ago. I was doing something and there was a kid in a spica cast (http://www.webmd.com/children/spica-cast-667) sitting in a little red wagon type thing. He was playing on a Gameboy or something similar. I had to do something with this patient and we got to talking. He told me that this was not even close to the first broken bone that he had suffered through, and this one must have been serious b/c of the casting. He then told me he had Brittle Bone Disease. He then stated he wanted to die. Please tell me why he should continue with the life that God gave him? He'll never participate in sports, gym, or any other parts of normal childhood. He'll be lucky to live long. Probably won't be able to work, so he'll be looked down on as lazy, a loser, etc. So would he be cowardly?

And it's dam-n with an 'N.' You can dam up whatever you want, and no, I won't do a thing. I don't care, Beaver Boy. That is a fact.

 

[inyati13]

Cites have their qualities. I lived five years in a studio apartment called Uptown Square in the Capital Hill District of Denver. Nice parks in that area. Life was good. Fitness center, nice restaurants, good movie theaters, beautiful clear clean downtown Denver with the 16 Street walking mall.

But the parks were inhabited by the less fortunate. They were a nuisance, asking for money. After a couple years, I found them entertaining. Always asked them what they wanted the money for. It was rhetorical because they bought alcohol. Some, in fact most, are honest. They would say, "I ain't gonna lie to you, I need a drink". One day a guy approached me panhandling. He was not too shabby. His English was lucid. Ask for money, said he almost had enough for a pint. I gave him a couple dollars. He started his story. He said he was an alcoholic. That it wrecked his life. He was a college professor, married, had a home, etc. Lost it all. Said that nothing he tried had stopped him from drinking. He was very intelligent. I ask what he taught. He taught philosophy.