Have to use Reg. Angus for Embro Receipts

[arkie 74]

I was at a Angus Production Sale, and over heard some of The Bigger Breeders in The American Angus Association. There was talk about breeders are going to have to start using Registered Angus Cattle for Receipts. Has anyone else heard this? If so that will change alot on things for som Breeders.

 

[highvoltagecattleco]

Haven't heard of it being said. Wouldn't be surprised if they did. I'm guilty of wanting to stick a few in commercial cows. If they don't change the rules I plan on doing it.

 

[MikeC]

Using registered recips is a way to have EPD's on the calf..............

 

[bigbull338]

scratches his head.thats a new 1 on me using reg recips for reg epds.the ET calf has its dam an sires epds.not its recip mommas epds.the recip cow just carries the calf.she dont affect the calfs breeding.i know some reg breeders that use reg cows for recips.only because they are at the bottom of the herd genetically.

 

[Frankie]

scratches his head.thats a new 1 on me using reg recips for reg epds.the ET calf has its dam an sires epds.not its recip mommas epds.the recip cow just carries the calf.she dont affect the calfs breeding.i know some reg breeders that use reg cows for recips.only because they are at the bottom of the herd genetically.

The recip doesn't affect the calf's breeding but she does affect his growth. A higher milking cow will probably wean a heavier calf. Angus embryo calves didn't have EPDs until the last few years because there was no way to allow for the recip cow's input. But if the calf is raised by a registered cow with EPDs, they can adjust for her influence on the calf and now give embryo calves EPDs.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

scratches his head.thats a new 1 on me using reg recips for reg epds.the ET calf has its dam an sires epds.not its recip mommas epds.the recip cow just carries the calf.she dont affect the calfs breeding.i know some reg breeders that use reg cows for recips.only because they are at the bottom of the herd genetically.

The recip doesn't affect the calf's breeding but she does affect his growth. A higher milking cow will probably wean a heavier calf. Angus embryo calves didn't have EPDs until the last few years because there was no way to allow for the recip cow's input. But if the calf is raised by a registered cow with EPDs, they can adjust for her influence on the calf and now give embryo calves EPDs.

what about the temperment effect of the reciept on the calf?? and want it be in a sence like creep feeding with a higher milking cow? not really seeing the true preformance from the parents. not againts embryo transfer ..would love to do it in the future ... just misinformation... not arguing just asking

 

[Jovid]

scratches his head.thats a new 1 on me using reg recips for reg epds.the ET calf has its dam an sires epds.not its recip mommas epds.the recip cow just carries the calf.she dont affect the calfs breeding.i know some reg breeders that use reg cows for recips.only because they are at the bottom of the herd genetically.

The recip doesn't affect the calf's breeding but she does affect his growth. A higher milking cow will probably wean a heavier calf. Angus embryo calves didn't have EPDs until the last few years because there was no way to allow for the recip cow's input. But if the calf is raised by a registered cow with EPDs, they can adjust for her influence on the calf and now give embryo calves EPDs.

what about the temperment effect of the reciept on the calf?? and want it be in a sence like creep feeding with a higher milking cow? not really seeing the true preformance from the parents. not againts embryo transfer ..want to do it in the future myself... just misinformation... not arguing just asking

That makes me think of a another question to go along that line. If it is an embryo calf do you record a WW & YW? It would seem that both of those figures can be influenced by other factors besides the genetics of the calf. Just asking how this works.

 

[Frankie]

scratches his head.thats a new 1 on me using reg recips for reg epds.the ET calf has its dam an sires epds.not its recip mommas epds.the recip cow just carries the calf.she dont affect the calfs breeding.i know some reg breeders that use reg cows for recips.only because they are at the bottom of the herd genetically.

The recip doesn't affect the calf's breeding but she does affect his growth. A higher milking cow will probably wean a heavier calf. Angus embryo calves didn't have EPDs until the last few years because there was no way to allow for the recip cow's input. But if the calf is raised by a registered cow with EPDs, they can adjust for her influence on the calf and now give embryo calves EPDs.

what about the temperment effect of the reciept on the calf?? and want it be in a sence like creep feeding with a higher milking cow? not really seeing the true preformance from the parents. not againts embryo transfer ..would love to do it in the future ... just misinformation... not arguing just asking

I think the cow that raises the calf always has an influence on the temperment. So does how they're handled by people. I'm not sure that I understand the creep feeding question. If the calf has a high milking recip, it will probably wean heavier. If you use a recip without a milk EPD, the Angus Assn won't give the calf any EPDs because they don't know about her milking genetics. If you use a cow with a high Milk or a low Milk EPD, they can adjust the calf's EPD by taking into account the recip's Milk EPD as compared to the donor cow's Milk EPD. Does that make sense?

To answer the follow up: Yes, all the weights should be reported. WW and YW are influenced by other factors. WW is especially affected by the dam's milk. That's why they won't give EPDs to a calf unless the recip has EPDs.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

the weaning weight is what i was refering to with a heaver calf from a higher milking reciept she got there from a outside influance. not through her genetic's back ground.. i understand it show's up great on paper but real working number's?

 

[Angus In Texas]

Yes you still record a WW and YW but if it is a commercial recip the numbers dont generate EPD's. The EPD's are generated once the registered animals starts having offspring with data recorded.

Using registered recips will allow the BW, WW, YW and milk epd's to be calculated on an interim basis because they know the maternal environment being provided to the calf. The AAA currently does not require the use of registered recips and as far as I know it isn't in the works. I think it would be logistically impossible with the large number of embryos being transferred to require registered recips.

 

[bigbull338]

frankie most of the people that i know that does ET work wants a beef X dairy breed recip to put the calf in.because they know being half dairy the cow can raise 1 heck of a calf.if i had a bunch of dairy cross heifers.i could get rich selling them tobe recips.

 

[Jovid]

frankie most of the people that i know that does ET work wants a beef X dairy breed recip to put the calf in.because they know being half dairy the cow can raise 1 heck of a calf.if i had a bunch of dairy cross heifers.i could get rich selling them tobe recips.

That's why we have people wanting to buy Red Polls for the same reason. Great milkers!

 

[CPL]

the weaning weight is what i was refering to with a heaver calf from a higher milking reciept she got there from a outside influance. not through her genetic's back ground.. i understand it show's up great on paper but real working number's?

That's what I was wondering. What does the Recip's milking ability (aka growth in ET calf) have to do with the heritable genes that will show up in the ET calf's future offspring?

 

[MikeC]

Yes you still record a WW and YW but if it is a commercial recip the numbers dont generate EPD's. The EPD's are generated once the registered animals starts having offspring with data recorded.

Using registered recips will allow the BW, WW, YW and milk epd's to be calculated on an interim basis because they know the maternal environment being provided to the calf. The AAA currently does not require the use of registered recips and as far as I know it isn't in the works. I think it would be logistically impossible with the large number of embryos being transferred to require registered recips.

YW's will have nothing to do with recips, as they are actually "POSTWEANING" Epd's.

 

[Angus In Texas]

Yes you still record a WW and YW but if it is a commercial recip the numbers dont generate EPD's. The EPD's are generated once the registered animals starts having offspring with data recorded.

Using registered recips will allow the BW, WW, YW and milk epd's to be calculated on an interim basis because they know the maternal environment being provided to the calf. The AAA currently does not require the use of registered recips and as far as I know it isn't in the works. I think it would be logistically impossible with the large number of embryos being transferred to require registered recips.

YW's will have nothing to do with recips, as they are actually "POSTWEANING" Epd's.

But they still fall under what are considered maternal traits and therefore are not calculated for ET calves unless a registered recip is used. YW EPD's are slightly dependent on WW EPD's..... if you look at calves that have only weaning weights turned in, the YW EPD will have a slightly higher accuracy than .05 but won't be in the .35 range like it will be once the YW is turned in.

 

[CPL]

We all know that EPD stands for Expected Progeny Differences. So if I have a bull that was a Embryo Transplant and I am wanting to use his EPDs for determining what he can add to my calf crop, Tell me which genes of his recip mother will be expressed in the progeny of him on my farm. It doesn't make sense to me. :?

 

[Frankie]

the weaning weight is what i was refering to with a heaver calf from a higher milking reciept she got there from a outside influance. not through her genetic's back ground.. i understand it show's up great on paper but real working number's?

That's what I was wondering. What does the Recip's milking ability (aka growth in ET calf) have to do with the heritable genes that will show up in the ET calf's future offspring?

It doesn't have anything to do with heritable genes. He/she gets those from the donor dam. But Angus EPDs are based on performance records of contemporary groups reported through the AHIR program. If a calf nursing a crossbred cow weans at 750 lbs, that data doesn't go into the AHIR program to build EPDs. Why? Because there's way to compare him to any contemporaries, also nursing commercial cattle of various milking abilities. If he's nursing a registered Angus cow with a milk EPD and is part of a contemporary group of calves nursing registered cows with EPDs, the AAA can adjust the calf's performance. That performance data goes into AHIR to be used for generating EPDs. The calf's EPDs will be Interims (I) until he/she produces a calf in a proper contemporary group and it's reported through the AHIR program.

 

[Frankie]

We all know that EPD stands for Expected Progeny Differences. So if I have a bull that was a Embryo Transplant and I am wanting to use his EPDs for determining what he can add to my calf crop, Tell me which genes of his recip mother will be expressed in the progeny of him on my farm. It doesn't make sense to me. :?

None of the recip dam's genes will be expressed in his progeny. :roll:

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

If you are doing embro work i would think you would be using proven sires and proven donors, if that is the case there should be enough calves on the ground to no what this sire and dam should produce.

 

[Frankie]

If you are doing embro work i would think you would be using proven sires and proven donors, if that is the case there should be enough calves on the ground to no what this sire and dam should produce.

If you spend big bucks on a young bull, flushing a bunch of cows to him would be a quick way to get him proven. One way or another.