Hard time getting water, need suggestions

[Utah]

I have three acres - no animals yet, but planning on getting two feeders in March/April and a few horses on a 1/5 acre corral. Problem is, I can't get water yet and may not be able to until May or June.

The land has a fairly high water table and used to have a workable "surface well" which I know nothing about operating. All I see is a 2" pipe coming out of the ground with a shut off valve and a broken poly pipe on the end. I cant find any previous owners that know what is out there. Ugh! How do these surface wells work? Anyone?

Is there any way to get safe water from the ground without having to apply for a drilling from the state water nazi? Something that is cost-effective?

Also, if you have the time to answer other questions:
How palatable is tall-fescue grass for the feeders? Should I re-seed with anything else when I spread the fescue like small amounts of clover?

I am splitting off my three acres into three smaller parts with one central corral for shelter and water. I followed this link's suggestion:
http://extension.usu.edu/files/agpubs/pasture.pdf

What width is too narrow for a pasture for three feeders? The depth of my lot is about 400 feet. For rotating pasture, I figured I could split it int three parts and flood irrigate once irrigation water is available.

Thanks for any reply!! Sorry to be so ignorant about it all, but this is the "Beginners Board." Utah

 

[dun]

How palatable is tall-fescue grass for the feeders? Should I re-seed with anything else when I spread the fescue like small amounts of clover?

I am splitting off my three acres into three smaller parts with one central corral for shelter and water. I followed this link's suggestion:
http://extension.usu.edu/files/agpubs/pasture.pdf

With fescue you definitly need to interseed some legume. I like red and white clover with a little annual lespedeza, but most times for simplicity I just use red clover. I'm assuming you're talking about KY31 fescue and not one of the other lawn type types.
Because fescue is so competitive, it will pretty much crowd out other grasses. The others being more palatable would be grazed out if you allow over grazing.
Fescue doesn't work well for stockers, it's better suited for other classes, but with enough clover it can be made to work, not optimum, but acceptable.
Do a search on these forums and you'll get a lot of information on endophyte, that is the limiting part of fescue.
With a central wate point and the paddocks radiating off like the spokes of a wheel, 3 paddocks shouldn't be necked down enough at the water point to cause any problems with width.
Have you talked to the local USDA-NRCS office, or University Extension, office? Those are the folks that will know your environment and what's practical. Ask around the feed store if anyone knows about surface wells, you might also ask about a "bubble pump". I never could understand how they work but a neighbor used one to irrigate 100 acres of christmas trees. It was made from a refrigerator compressor, that's about all I can recall.

dun

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

I would probably try hooking that pipe up to a centrifugal pump. I live in an area over an aquifer. My whole house runs off a sandpoint buried four feet in the ground. If the well doesn't need to be too deep, I might try using a submersible pump dug into a shallow, cribbed hole with a cover on top of it. I would think that a standard driller would dig you a 24" hole for not alot of money. As far as checking with anybody, the less government involvement, the better. However, if you can use the existing well, I wouldn't think there would need to ask any kind of permission.

 

[Bez]

Let's talk about the well.

Have you opened the shutoff valve yet?

Did anything happen if you did? Water flow if it is an artesian?

Have you dropped a nut on a string down the pipe to see if there is water?

How deep is the well?

If there is water, how far down to reach water?

Power available within reasonable distance?

Did you dig down a bit to see if there is a buried well top just below the surface? Usually within a couple of feet there will be a concrete cap 3 - 4 feet in diametre or a capped steel pipe 6 - 10 inches in diametre if this is what I think it might be. In my part of the world this type of setup is no longer used but there are many still out there.

When digging look out for any possible underground cables leading to the well. Any posts nearby with wiring on them that seems to go no where?

Any vertical metal boxes nearby?

What exploration have you done here, other than look at it?

Talk to any neighbours who might be in the know?

You answer these questions, provide all the extra info that you think might be pertinent - even stuff that you think might NOT be pertinent - and I'll bet there is a solution. I have a couple of ideas but will wait for your reply.

Otherwise, call a contractor, spend the money and let him figure it out for you.

Bez

 

[Bez]

Additional to the first. If you are unable to drop a line down the well after opening the shutoff valve - because the flow of the shutoff valve is at 90 degrees to the vertical - and no wate flows when it is opened - then do not be afraid to take a hacksaw and cut it off. It is easy to rethread the pipe and replace the shutoff valve.

Cut it off as high as you can - that way there is plenty of vertical pipe sticking out of the ground to work with.

In fact if the flow of the shutoff is at 90 degrees to the verticle pipe you should probably do this anyways. Replace it with one that allows direct access to the pipe and any water below. Its a lot easier when you do not have to go around corners to access the water. Add whatever angle you want - ie 90 - on the downstream side of the shutoff valve.

Bez

 

[Utah]

Thanks for the replies!! Here are some answers to those replies:

Q.Have you opened the shutoff valve yet?
A. Yes...

Q. Did anything happen if you did?
A. Nothing happened, I think it was already opened. No flow.

Q. Have you dropped a nut on a string down the pipe to see if there is water?
A. Cant get to that point until I cut off the valve - it is at a 90' angle.

Q. How deep is the well? If there is water, how far down to reach water?
A. I dont know yet. I had a backhoe last week. I dug right by it to see if water came in the hole. At about 5 feet deep, nothing came in at all.

Q. Power available within reasonable distance?
A. Yes, I am trying to get the city to determine my rural address for a hook-up, What a big pain in the rump!

Q. Did you dig down a bit to see if there is a buried well top just below the surface?
A. I dug around it, maybe 2 1/2 feet. the top deeper if it is there. I will go deeper this weekend.

Q. Any posts nearby with wiring on them that seems to go no where?
A. No Cables around the post.

Q. Any vertical metal boxes nearby?
A. None

Q. Talk to any neighbours who might be in the know?
A. The only guy that might know stole my fence and gates. He kept horses on it until I bought it. He was mad that he didnt steal the property too - he is no help (since the sheriff has called him) :lol:

Does anyone out there use a windmill water pump? Maybe that would work. I need to get an electric pump with generator to suck on that pipe to see what it brings up.


Thanks again!

 

[Bez]

Cut that valve off - first thing - then find out if there is water.

Measure water level and well depth.

If there is water within 30 feet of the surface - and it sounds like there might be - then get yourself some 1 inch or 1 - 1/2 pvc pipe to run down your two inch hole.

This is a temporary fix, but it will work.

You need a regular old piston pump - cheap to buy - easy to run - usually get them second hand at a plumbers supply. Even better if you can find an old pressure tank - nice but not really necessary - YET.

Hook up enough pipe to go down into the water - preferably at least two thirds of the depth of water - best about two feet off the bottom. Using various elbow combinations hook it up to the piston pump.

Prime it and put the power to the pump. It will suck and blow. If you do not want to use a generator, get a gas powered pump - well worth the price for many other applications anyways. Deeper water level - well, you can do the piston pump, but it needs additional piping - not enough room in the hole. You will probably be stuck with a "down the hole pump". They are too big for your pipe.

Put a foot valve on it - or you will always have to prime!

Make sure you run a bunch of this water - who knows how long it has been sitting there. Once it comes clean, if you are concerned - have it tested. If there are no nearby possible pollutants it will in all probability be fine for animal use.

On the down stream side of the pump, you can "neck down" the diametre and add a hose if you like. Caution this will bring up the pressure - you probably do not need a high pressure hose - but try it out and see. Or you can use the same diametre pipe on the downstream side - put a "Y" on it and add two hose attachments. The combinations and possibilities are only limited by your imagination and budget.

The well water flow may be small enough that you will drain the tube and have to wait for it to fill up again - meaning you will have to eventually put in a pressure tank to prevent the well tube from draining out. As the tank fills - it shuts off the pump and you still have water pressure while the tube re-fills. If the flow is high enough that this does not happen - well, count your blessings.

I have found well tops as deep as 8 feet under ground. I have heard of them being deeper - but that is the exception rather than the rule. Once you find the well top - if indeed this is a well and not a pipe coming from somewhere else - you really should bring it above the surface to prevent surface water running back into the well. Especially if it is potable water - keeps your drinking water safer.

I have to admit your neighbour is a hard worker - I have never seen a fence stolen before - too much work!

Windmills work fine. Koenders (sp?) makes a fine windmill - be sure to spend the extra money to have it pre-assembled. I have put the twenty-five thousand miniscule parts together ONCE! Never again - a true pain in the butt. It took me several evenings to do this.

Anyway, I have given you the basics - if you need more just pm me.

Finally - a piece of real advice: Temporary often become permanent. With water - do not let this happen. Sooner or later you WILL regret it. This is one place you should not "cheap out".

Best of luck.

Bez

 

[Utah]

Bez, thanks for all your input! I sincerely appreciate it. I will be working on that well this weekend following your suggestions - as long as the snow stays away for a bit. brrrr! Utah

 

[Bez]

Let us know what happens

Bez