Got wolves?

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I don't ranch/farm/raise cattle for a living. Which, to me, makes any loss that I have an even bigger hit b/c it's a higher percentage of my money invested. However, I also understand that in any business venture there will be loss. This is the nature of business. No one likes it to happen, but it's inevitable.

As humans, we like to think that we can control all loss, and prevent anything from turning out in any form other than what we intended. That being said, we like to move into a situation and completely dominate it. We think that because we, as humans, have a larger cerebral cortex than any other animal on the planet, can therefore dominate/own/control all situations. In the end is this a good thing? I don't believe so. I think it's hurt a lot more than it's helped. Look at the eradication or introduction of certain species. We think we can control a situation to the point of "This isn't going to get out of control," and it most certainly always does. We take things out environments and we add things to environments, and in the end the environment is screwed up. Wolves are part of the natural environment for a reason. By taking them out, we've done some damage. Now that they're introduced again people are scared, upset, and mostly angry. But should we just eradicate everything we don't like?
I do.
 
anyone else use this method to control wolves moving in to your area?
Not sure if it works, sounds logical. I've been told the old time cowboys drank a lot of coffee, and made frequent stops to water the grass when checking cows or riding fence. Kinda letting the wolves know they weren't the only predator around.
 
There is a pack just across the freeway from me. From my living room window I can see some of the hills they range in. Last year they decided that cows were easier to kill than elk. They were killing a cow every other day. There was 11 wolves. The game dept took out 4. But they didn't take out the alpha female because they want her to keep having pups. So much for calling the powers to be for help.
The real solution is to gut shoot them with a gun big enough that the bullet goes clear through. The wolf runs off and dies somewhere else and there is no evidence linking you to the shooting. I hear rumors that this method is proven to work.
 
Wolf urine!!!!! We have wolves and coyotes. We are in a mainly cattle area and close to large state forests that wolves live in. Coyotes move out and wolves move in. Wolves on trail cams this winter and no coyotes howling or yipping tis spring yet. I read on another site that using wolf urine in certain locations will keep the coyotes weary and might keep wolves away since wolves will think its another wolf's boundary markings. So I got a bottle from Amazon and will give it a try. The snow is melting or was, and when I went to fix some electric fence I found tracks and signs of a loan wolf so I hope this plan works. My neighbor lost a new born calf last spring and the DNR said it was coyotes but he was not buying that. anyone else use this method to control wolves moving in to your area?
Did it ever dawn on you that coyotes are on wolves' menu also? They will dig bears out of their dens quite often also.

Tactics to discourage livestock predation or attempt to make them move to a different area only pushes the problem off on someone else. Would you use the same methods with a human murderer or rapist?


Are "loan" wolves two legged?
 
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There is a pack just across the freeway from me. From my living room window I can see some of the hills they range in. Last year they decided that cows were easier to kill than elk. They were killing a cow every other day. There was 11 wolves. The game dept took out 4. But they didn't take out the alpha female because they want her to keep having pups. So much for calling the powers to be for help.
The real solution is to gut shoot them with a gun big enough that the bullet goes clear through. The wolf runs off and dies somewhere else and there is no evidence linking you to the shooting. I hear rumors that this method is proven to work.
I had a Montana rancher tell me that they all end up getting hit by a train. It doesn't matter what projectiles may have crossed their path, they end up hang out on the rail road tracks and getting hit by a train.
 
Did it ever dawn on you that coyotes are on wolves' menu also? They will dig bears out of their dens quite often also.

Tactics to discourage livestock predation or attempt to make them move to a different area only pushes the problem off on someone else. Would you use the same methods with a human murderer or rapist?


Are "loan" wolves two legged?
thats why i wrote coyotes move out ( they dont like to get eaten) and wolves move in. I dont think urine works on chasing murderers away, just a 357, not sure about others.
 
Go out calling coyotes. Have a lot of them howling but not coming in. Turn on a wolf howl and watch how quick those coyotes shut up. My guess is they also get out of dodge in a big hurry.
 
Tactics to discourage livestock predation or attempt to make them move to a different area only pushes the problem off on someone else.
I've preached this for years but there is a huge demographic of backyard 'farmers' that is queer for LGDs!! That's all they talk about and when someone new comes along the first thing the older folks tell 'em is "Oh , when you get your goaties, you gotta get you an LGD! Oh, they're the most wonderful animals and you never have to worry about predators"
Screw all that.
All they do is run the predator off onto their neighbor's property. Ya have a predator, kill the sobs.
Feral hogs..they cross my place but they don't stop any more because I shoot every one I can and same with coyotes and all my neighbors are of the same mind, except the stupid goat lady up the road with her dam LGDs.
I told her time and again:
It's your goat kids that are drawing the coyotes in here. Your problem, you deal with it. All you're doing is running them off onto Brad's place to harass his calves and eat his poultry.
NEVER MAKE YOUR PROBLEM SOMEONE ELSE'S PROBLEM!!!
stupid woman...
 
I've preached this for years but there is a huge demographic of backyard 'farmers' that is queer for LGDs!! That's all they talk about and when someone new comes along the first thing the older folks tell 'em is "Oh , when you get your goaties, you gotta get you an LGD! Oh, they're the most wonderful animals and you never have to worry about predators"
Screw all that.
All they do is run the predator off onto their neighbor's property. Ya have a predator, kill the sobs.
Feral hogs..they cross my place but they don't stop any more because I shoot every one I can and same with coyotes and all my neighbors are of the same mind, except the stupid goat lady up the road with her dam LGDs.
I told her time and again:
It's your goat kids that are drawing the coyotes in here. Your problem, you deal with it. All you're doing is running them off onto Brad's place to harass his calves and eat his poultry.
NEVER MAKE YOUR PROBLEM SOMEONE ELSE'S PROBLEM!!!
stupid woman...
Wolves are a protected species. back on the endangered list.
 
I don't think the average guard dog is capable of holding their own against a wolf. I would want three to four guard dogs
for every wolf I thought they might encounter. Yes, wolves are back on the endangered list. I thought ODF&W was doing a
fairly good job of dealing with wolves, but I don't live in an area that currently has a wolf population. What I read may not
be totally accurate. They had the opportunity to take out an Alpha female, and they chose not to.. I felt that was a big
mistake, she obviously was killing livestock, and that is what she is going to teach her pups.

A guy involved with Animal Control once said a dog never has to touch a sheep to kill it, just harassing and chasing can
create enough stress to kill it. I am sure the same would hold true with livestock trying to co-exist with wolves. And who
knows what all obstacles the prey literally crashes into, resulting in injury or death, trying to escape the predator.
 
We had dogs run some of our pregnant ewes and they exhausted them to where they collapsed and died.

As far as the LGD's... they are that person's way of preventing their own animals from getting attacked and eaten just like you are shooting the predators. Just because they are trying to keep the predators out of their own fields does not mean they are trying to drive them to others fields. They are dealing with the predators by deterring them from coming on to their own property.

I agree that the coyotes ought to be shot. We run some donkeys with our sheep, and have run llamas in the past. We also shoot the coyotes when they become a problem. Recently had coyotes get in and get 5 of 8 lambs that were 20-30 lbs, so not little babies. Had a guy come in and has gotten 3 that were trying to get back in there. Moved the donkey into this place to help.

So what you are saying is that we should not have the donkey in there to deter the coyotes, because the sheep and lambs are drawing in the coyotes???? That the ONLY method of determent is to shoot? That by bringing in the donkey to protect our lambs and by deterring the coyotes is we pushed them into the cattle fields? Sorry, that doesn't cut it.
The coyotes are going to find the easiest prey... if it is the lambs, or the new baby calves, or a bunch of rabbits or the neighbors cats, ....whatever.
We found a coyote eating a dead baby calf a few days later. Think it was a dead twin... so we had the guy come in and he got 2 that next night right up in amongst the cattle.
I have no qualms against someone doing whatever they can to protect their own animals... the whole purpose is to protect what is yours. If the neighbor manages to stop the predation on her property then she is entitled to do so. If she objects to the shooting of them then she is stupid... but it is not wrong for her to keep them off her own property, and having the goats as an enticement is not a fair assessment. She is entitled to have any type, or breed of animal she wants on her own land, just like you are. And she can protect them any way she wants to as long as it doesn't infringe on your property rights.
 
As far as the LGD's... they are that person's way of preventing their own animals from getting attacked and eaten just like you are shooting the predators. Just because they are trying to keep the predators out of their own fields does not mean they are trying to drive them to others fields.
To say they are not trying to drive them onto someone else's land defies logic and the physical laws of the world.
Exactly where are they trying drive them to then?
Lala land? Teletubbie land? Wonderland?
Unicorn country?
Everyone has neighbors.
Some near, some far but everyone has other people's property 1 inch beyond their own property line.
Of course they are trying to drive them onto other people's land.
There is absolutely no other explanation for it.

The only real question is whether they give a dam that they are doing it.
 
To say they are not trying to drive them onto someone else's land defies logic and the physical laws of the world.
Exactly where are they trying drive them to then?
Lala land? Teletubbie land? Wonderland?
Unicorn country?
Everyone has neighbors.
Some near, some far but everyone has other people's property 1 inch beyond their own property line.
Of course they are trying to drive them onto other people's land.
There is absolutely no other explanation for it.

The only real question is whether they give a dam that they are doing it.
You need to share them with your neighbors, hang them on the fence between you and your neighbors so everyone knows your doing your part to get rid of a neighborhood problem.
 
I've lost livestock to predators. Frustrating, even saddening, and sometimes you have to toss a little lead their way... but would you really want them all gone?
 
I do not understand.

As an addendum, I certainly wouldn't want them all gone. It'll have to get to a point where a lot of these predators (whole ag industry from coast to coast is dealing with some flavor of them right now) get shot back to their pre-explosion numbers, but some will stay and that's a good thing. The way this country is headed, the wildlife and the landscape may be the only things really and truly left of our history one day.
 
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To say they are not trying to drive them onto someone else's land defies logic and the physical laws of the world.
Exactly where are they trying drive them to then?
Lala land? Teletubbie land? Wonderland?
Unicorn country?
Everyone has neighbors.
Some near, some far but everyone has other people's property 1 inch beyond their own property line.
Of course they are trying to drive them onto other people's land.
There is absolutely no other explanation for it.

The only real question is whether they give a dam that they are doing it.
Say a person is having a problem with theft on their property. They install cameras, alarm systems, fences, locked gates and add other methods to deter thieves. Maybe a few barking dogs. If the thieves see that and move on to a less secured place, is that person responsible for pushing the thieves onto their neighbors? Everyone can have their opinion, but I don't see it that way.
 
Say a person is having a problem with theft on their property. They install cameras, alarm systems, fences, locked gates and add other methods to deter thieves. Maybe a few barking dogs. If the thieves see that and move on to a less secured place, is that person responsible for pushing the thieves onto their neighbors? Everyone can have their opinion, but I don't see it that way.
I have to somewhat agree with you. Some people's predator plans don't revolve around shooting them all, and while shooting, trapping, and sometimes poisoning are the best bets they do not have the same longevity on their own as shooting + security. The larger portion of animals that harm or aggravate livestock rotate, roam and migrate and you're really only ever shooting this quarter's varmints by and large.
 

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