Got wolves?

[Ebenezer]

Wolves are a protected species. back on the endangered list.

So are white males.

 

[Gobbler'sKnob]

So are white males.

Protected or endangered?

 

[Dave]

Since the first of the year in this general area there have been 4 confirmed wolf kills of livestock and 3 possible/unknown. There has also been 3 confirmed dogs killed by wolves. One of those dogs was an LGD who was inside a "wolf protection electric fence". The other two were herding dogs.
The game dept goes through all sorts of things to confirm a wolf kill. One of the possibles was a cow that a motorist witnessed 2 wolves feeding on a cow. The game dept said there was too much flesh gone to be able to confirm that the wolves actually killed it. Even though the cow had been seen alive the evening before.

 

[Gobbler'sKnob]

Since the first of the year in this general area there have been 4 confirmed wolf kills of livestock and 3 possible/unknown. There has also been 3 confirmed dogs killed by wolves. One of those dogs was an LGD who was inside a "wolf protection electric fence". The other two were herding dogs.
The game dept goes through all sorts of things to confirm a wolf kill. One of the possibles was a cow that a motorist witnessed 2 wolves feeding on a cow. The game dept said there was too much flesh gone to be able to confirm that the wolves actually killed it. Even though the cow had been seen alive the evening before.

Gotta love the government. They denied every mountain lion and mountain lion predation report where I'm originally from until people just started shooting them and then calling it in.

 

[farmerjan]

Say a person is having a problem with theft on their property. They install cameras, alarm systems, fences, locked gates and add other methods to deter thieves. Maybe a few barking dogs. If the thieves see that and move on to a less secured place, is that person responsible for pushing the thieves onto their neighbors? Everyone can have their opinion, but I don't see it that way.

Thank you.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

I do not understand.

As an addendum, I certainly wouldn't want them all gone. It'll have to get to a point where a lot of these predators (whole ag industry from coast to coast is dealing with some flavor of them right now) get shot back to their pre-explosion numbers, but some will stay and that's a good thing. The way this country is headed, the wildlife and the landscape may be the only things really and truly left of our history one day.

I think any time mankind plays a role directly or indirectly in the extermination of any species it makes a very negative statement about mankind. Should any rancher/hobby farmer have to sit quietly on their porch and watch a wolf/wolves frolic with their livestock for fear of facing severe fines ?
No. For many years California, and probably other states, paid a bounty on cougar. It provided a source of income for some. One individual that hunted the cougar, for the bounty, with hounds wrote a book about this years later. He felt it would be pretty hard if not impossible to exterminate the cougar. He said they would survive in the remote areas of the rugged coastal range.

There is no bounty on the wolf to motivate excessive hunting, there is a lot of rugged backcountry where the wolf can live comfortably. Do all wolves kill livestock, I don't know. Not all coyotes kill livestock. But the coyote is intelligent enough to have survived anything and everything that has been used to try to annihilate him, and I respect and admire him for that. And yes, coyotes also ate a fair share of my sheep and sheep whose care I was responsible for.

The removal of a wolf/wolves that are killing your livestock or coming into your yard should be a choice not a crime. I do firmly believe in the removal of the animal that is actively killing livestock. But I also have no problem admitting "killing a wolf " is on my "bucket list". Here's to my "Gramdma"

 

[Gobbler'sKnob]

I think any time mankind plays a role directly or indirectly in the extermination of any species it makes a very negative statement about mankind. Should any rancher/hobby farmer have to sit quietly on their porch and watch a wolf/wolves frolic with their livestock for fear of facing severe fines ?
No. For many years California, and probably other states, paid a bounty on cougar. It provided a source of income for some. One individual that hunted the cougar, for the bounty, with hounds wrote a book about this years later. He felt it would be pretty hard if not impossible to exterminate the cougar. He said they would survive in the remote areas of the rugged coastal range.

There is no bounty on the wolf to motivate excessive hunting, there is a lot of rugged backcountry where the wolf can live comfortably. Do all wolves kill livestock, I don't know. Not all coyotes kill livestock. But the coyote is intelligent enough to have survived anything and everything that has been used to try to annihilate him, and I respect and admire him for that. And yes, coyotes also ate a fair share of my sheep and sheep whose care I was responsible for.

The removal of a wolf/wolves that are killing your livestock or coming into your yard should be a choice not a crime. I do firmly believe in the removal of the animal that is actively killing livestock. But I also have no problem admitting "killing a wolf " is on my "bucket list". Here's to my "Gramdma"

Seems we pretty well agree.

 

[farmerjan]

We had a big coyote that was seen on the farm multiple times. We never lost an animal. An "old timer" farmer said that if you have one and no losses, let it be. They have established their territory and will keep out the problem ones. So we did, just co-existed. For over 3 or 4 years... we would see him around but never had a lost calf or lamb. Then he got shot on another piece of property, we heard about it from a neighbor... and about 6 months later we saw a couple of new ones and the killings started right after that. Had the friend who likes to hunt them, night vision stuff and all that... got 4 in 2 nights. Stopped the lamb killing. Lost a calf that was born alive and up nursing, son had tagged it, dead the next afternoon. Got 2 coyotes that night . Problems stopped until we heard about someone losing one of their little house dogs... and a couple of missing cats in the subdivision that abuts the woods and the farm land. All the idiots in the subdivision were raising the roof about the predators and the farmers were to blame for it... HUH?????....
When we started seeing a couple more, had the guy come out and he got a few. Then it died down for a year or 2 and we saw more foxes.
Now it has started again. Heard a bunch of them last year, could hear the young ones so there were some breeding pairs around... Now they are adults and we are back at it.
I would give anything to have that one big lone coyote back.... we had some rabbits but were not overrun, we saw a few foxes, and we did not have to constantly worry about the sheep or the baby calves.
We lose some chickens to the foxes occasionally, as well as the eagle and the hawk.... but I don't go around and try to kill everyone I see.
However, the coyotes are smart and are learning to live better and better with the enroaching houses and subdivisions and are becoming more and more a problem here.

 

[Gobbler'sKnob]

We had a big coyote that was seen on the farm multiple times. We never lost an animal. An "old timer" farmer said that if you have one and no losses, let it be. They have established their territory and will keep out the problem ones. So we did, just co-existed. For over 3 or 4 years... we would see him around but never had a lost calf or lamb. Then he got shot on another piece of property, we heard about it from a neighbor... and about 6 months later we saw a couple of new ones and the killings started right after that. Had the friend who likes to hunt them, night vision stuff and all that... got 4 in 2 nights. Stopped the lamb killing. Lost a calf that was born alive and up nursing, son had tagged it, dead the next afternoon. Got 2 coyotes that night . Problems stopped until we heard about someone losing one of their little house dogs... and a couple of missing cats in the subdivision that abuts the woods and the farm land. All the idiots in the subdivision were raising the roof about the predators and the farmers were to blame for it... HUH?????....
When we started seeing a couple more, had the guy come out and he got a few. Then it died down for a year or 2 and we saw more foxes.
Now it has started again. Heard a bunch of them last year, could hear the young ones so there were some breeding pairs around... Now they are adults and we are back at it.
I would give anything to have that one big lone coyote back.... we had some rabbits but were not overrun, we saw a few foxes, and we did not have to constantly worry about the sheep or the baby calves.
We lose some chickens to the foxes occasionally, as well as the eagle and the hawk.... but I don't go around and try to kill everyone I see.
However, the coyotes are smart and are learning to live better and better with the enroaching houses and subdivisions and are becoming more and more a problem here.

It's best to shoot coyotes in a wad if you can swing it.

 

[Ky hills]

When it comes to protecting livestock, I believe that dispatching the predator is the best way. That being said oftentimes you realize you have a problem after a livestock kill, and it is a costly venture. That is why methods like electric fencing, guard dogs, donkeys, llamas etc. are useful to try to prevent a predation problem.
As for wolves and coyotes and the like, I don't necessarily want them totally eradicated, but maybe just absent from anywhere except a zoo, or secured sanctuary.
We used to not have coyotes here, but within a few decades within my lifetime they have gone from unheard of to thick as hair on a dogs back.
This is not their original range. As I understand it wolves were once here years ago, probably the red wolf. They have been trying to reestablish red wolves in some places but it sounds like they are interbreeding with coyotes.
Black bears, are expanding their range into this area.
When my mother was a child she said there were not hardly any raccoons, due to hunting and trapping them for furs. Nowadays raccoons are thick as well.
If you have livestock, crops, gardens you are going to have run ins with all kinds of varmints.

 

[Gobbler'sKnob]

When it comes to protecting livestock, I believe that dispatching the predator is the best way. That being said oftentimes you realize you have a problem after a livestock kill, and it is a costly venture. That is why methods like electric fencing, guard dogs, donkeys, llamas etc. are useful to try to prevent a predation problem.
As for wolves and coyotes and the like, I don't necessarily want them totally eradicated, but maybe just absent from anywhere except a zoo, or secured sanctuary.
We used to not have coyotes here, but within a few decades within my lifetime they have gone from unheard of to thick as hair on a dogs back.
This is not their original range. As I understand it wolves were once here years ago, probably the red wolf. They have been trying to reestablish red wolves in some places but it sounds like they are interbreeding with coyotes.
Black bears, are expanding their range into this area.
When my mother was a child she said there were not hardly any raccoons, due to hunting and trapping them for furs. Nowadays raccoons are thick as well.
If you have livestock, crops, gardens you are going to have run ins with all kinds of varmints.

Coyote populations in the general area of the country that you call home and that I am orginally from close to have taken many ups and downs over the past 200 years on a cycle. A lot of the time the recollection that they weren't there is from one of the down cycles. That said, there were never so many as there are now.

Mesopredators always boom in the absence of higher echelon predators. That's why it's not so bad to have a few of the bigger boys bumping around in the wooly stuff nearabouts your region, as they will often control mesopredator populations.

In one area in bear country where I spend a decent bit of time, carcasses of lesser predators that have been bear killed are pretty common.

No perfect answer, sadly. One of those things where you can't have nature without clashing with nature. Sometimes you just have to remind yourself that we, the fleshy pink unlikely apex predators, have managed to stay on top and ostensibly always will.

 

[Dave]

In this part of the state you can shoot a wolf if it is chasing or harassing your livestock as long as the critters are legally allowed to be there. My opinion if you see a wolf you shoot it. If there are no cows there go herd some over there and run them around the wolf carcass.
Other parts of this state you aren't allowed to do this. Even if you killed one is self defense everything will be looked at extremely close. You will go through more than if you had shot a human. Cougars on the other hand season is open year around. It is just that using hounds is illegal. Of course using hounds is the only effective method of hunting cougars.

 

[DNelson]

I agree, Wolves are on my endangered list along with feral hogs, stray dogs, black buzzards, badgers
or anything with feathers or hair that views what I grow as food. Need I mention liberals?

better check the list on fws.gov. Liberals are no where endangered, there are plenty. I like your list better.

 

[DNelson]

Crazy ain't it? there are more wolves than cougars and the protected species is the gray wolf.

In this part of the state you can shoot a wolf if it is chasing or harassing your livestock as long as the critters are legally allowed to be there. My opinion if you see a wolf you shoot it. If there are no cows there go herd some over there and run them around the wolf carcass.
Other parts of this state you aren't allowed to do this. Even if you killed one is self defense everything will be looked at extremely close. You will go through more than if you had shot a human. Cougars on the other hand season is open year around. It is just that using hounds is illegal. Of course using hounds is the only effective method of hunting cougars.

 

[DNelson]

when predators lose the fear of humans there are to many predators. I had a wolf walk across my hay filed three years ago and never bolted. it just kept walking and looked at me from a couple hundred feet as to say, WTH are you doing here.

 

[Ebenezer]

Protected or endangered?

I know one that is protected but likely all are endangered.

The problem with predators is simple. The wildlife enthusiast want them and the poor little city and town kids have to go to a zoo to see wild animals. So, start a catch and relocate program to release all to urban areas, parks and recreational areas. Great exercise to run from a grizzly, no gas needed to go see a wolf if he is in the park next door, coyotes will deal with stray cats and rat problems... and the folks who want them and want them protected can do all of the enjoyment and get that warm fuzzy feeling of helping the environment that they want to. Send some to DC, too, because they love the unloved and the rare. If there had been bears and loins and tigers (oh my!) up there Jan 6 that would have kept down the crowd. That was easy.

 

[Gobbler'sKnob]

I know one that is protected but likely all are endangered.

The problem with predators is simple. The wildlife enthusiast want them and the poor little city and town kids have to go to a zoo to see wild animals. So, start a catch and relocate program to release all to urban areas, parks and recreational areas. Great exercise to run from a grizzly, no gas needed to go see a wolf if he is in the park next door, coyotes will deal with stray cats and rat problems... and the folks who want them and want them protected can do all of the enjoyment and get that warm fuzzy feeling of helping the environment that they want to. Send some to DC, too, because they love the unloved and the rare. If there had been bears and loins and tigers (oh my!) up there Jan 6 that would have kept down the crowd. That was easy.

Send half, keep half. That satisfies both needs. Just be careful, already too many Californians and New Englanders leaving their containment areas.

 

[wbvs58]

The trouble is since settlement we have changed things. We provide reliable water sources, we have put out vulnerable livestock which are an easy kill for predators. We have pushed them into smaller areas for their habitat so it is logical they will come out at night to prey on the livestock. Some species thrive better than others so it is necessary to manage the numbers. Australia's kangaroo population is a prime example, reliable water supply has greatly increased the numbers so a kangaroo harvest/cull is necessary to keep things sustainable for which we get a lot of criticism.

Ken

 

[Travlr]

Would you like to have an intelligent discussion or would you just prefer to continue to show a lack of understanding of the cattle business?

An intelligent discussion would include all points of view, all options, and all solutions. I don't mind hearing ideas from people that I suspect I will eventually end up disagreeing with. I might still learn something.

 

[Gobbler'sKnob]

An intelligent discussion would include all points of view, all options, and all solutions. I don't mind hearing ideas from people that I suspect I will eventually end up disagreeing with. I might still learn something.

What is your point of view on the topic?