TexasBred
Well-known member
Alice.....hug his neck long and hard and tell him "thank you for all of us". :tiphat:
Got a question for the Viet Nam War Vets
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ToxicAvenger
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Alice, I hesitated in my reply until I was sure where you were going. Wasn't going to waste my time arguing with a liberal who is running down servicemen. I'm glad to see this was not your intent. Your grandson's curiosity is understandable and I see no harm in him asking. Just explain to him not to push the issue if his granddad chooses not to talk about it.
Always kinda figured I would be like John Wayne but the first time someone trained their weapon on me I'm pretty sure I was the scared-est SOB in the country. Might have even wet myself. I don't really remember. I just did what I had to do. While I don't have the 100 yard stare I do have a few faces on the wall that I have to contend with from time to time.
The important thing for your grandson to understand is that Hollywood is a poor historian and what you see and hear on the news is at best suspect. There has been a lot of liberal talk on the board lately about how cruel our soldiers are in Iraq. I beg to differ as they are using the utmost restraint. Sure bad stuff happens but when our soldiers choose to walk door to door in a town routing out insurgents rather than calling in an air strike and levelling the town - this is restraint. (We sure didn't extend this same courtesy to Japan when we used incendiaries on cities made mostly of bamboo.)
Always kinda figured I would be like John Wayne but the first time someone trained their weapon on me I'm pretty sure I was the scared-est SOB in the country. Might have even wet myself. I don't really remember. I just did what I had to do. While I don't have the 100 yard stare I do have a few faces on the wall that I have to contend with from time to time.
The important thing for your grandson to understand is that Hollywood is a poor historian and what you see and hear on the news is at best suspect. There has been a lot of liberal talk on the board lately about how cruel our soldiers are in Iraq. I beg to differ as they are using the utmost restraint. Sure bad stuff happens but when our soldiers choose to walk door to door in a town routing out insurgents rather than calling in an air strike and levelling the town - this is restraint. (We sure didn't extend this same courtesy to Japan when we used incendiaries on cities made mostly of bamboo.)
HOSS
Well-known member
I am not a VW vet but am a vet of the Panama invasion, Gulf War I and Gulf War II. I keep things rather generic for my kids. When they get to be adults I will talk more freely. There is no way possible for someone who has seen the elephant, so to speak, to relate exactly what hard combat is like to someone that has not had that experience. It comes across making the vet look like a cold blooded killer because you cannot explain the emotion part or the natural reaction part. I can't even make a dent in explaining it here in writing :x I have found that talkng about the bad experiences with other vets like my Dad and Uncles (Viet Nam, Korea and WWII) is somewhat relieving because the don't make judgements. They have been there and understand the stress coupled with the sometimes emotional detachment from what you have to do. I was an Airborne Ranger and we were trained to the point that we reacted to the situation before thinking about the long term memories and emotional issues that will come later. The training keeps you alive period. If you are trained to deal with the emotional part before a combat situation you will think first and react second....this can get you killed quickly. I hope I am making sense here.......The emotional part later in life is a price you pay for living through those situations. You will never get rid of the ghosts completely. There is always a reminder....a face, a smell, a noise, even certain traffic situations in cities will bring back a memory. The main consolation is that I did my job honorably, stayed alive and returned back home to my family mostly unscathed. I will someday talk about details to my kids when they are older......getting it out helps.
Mahoney Pursley Ranch
Well-known member
pdfangus said:
Susie David
Well-known member
When your grandson and his grandfather are alone in the barn spending some one-on-one time together, then he can ask if if it is all right to talk about the war. Some of us have come to grips with that segiment of our lives long ago and will answer sincere questions from trusted family members and friends. He has to
remember that in war friends bleed and die and grown men cry for their mothers...it wasn't pretty and all war leaves a special, private place in the hearts of the combatants.
Platoon was one of the most accurate of the "Nam" movies as to the emotional aspects of the soldiers.
Dave Mc
USMC Retired
remember that in war friends bleed and die and grown men cry for their mothers...it wasn't pretty and all war leaves a special, private place in the hearts of the combatants.
Platoon was one of the most accurate of the "Nam" movies as to the emotional aspects of the soldiers.
Dave Mc
USMC Retired
pdfangus
Well-known member
Mahoney Pursley Ranch":ap3bry15 said:
I was in the army during that time. I am not speaking from the outside looking in. I am not slapping anyones face. I volunteered twice. I lost friends. I dealt with the hippies too.
My dad was in a non combat position in WWII but he did see wounded a lot, some accidents that killed soldiers and he worked relocating graves, basically digging up the dead to relocate them. He witnessed the collision of two transport planes midair in a fog. He heard rather than saw it. He described an explosion followed by bodies and parts of bodies raining down from the sky along with wreckage. I think that had a sharp impact on him. Growing up, we never asked and he never talked. It wasn't until he was in his sixties that he started attending army reunions, and he started telling me about his experiences. Sometimes he cried. I know he saw worse and won't ever tell.
He had a rough time with some vets in later conflicts that becamed disabled mentally from their experience. Of course, that was a diferent time, and there was no PTSD, only "combat fatigue", which was frowned upon as a weakness. He said that soldiers had to just out it all out of their minds, or try to, and get on with life. I think it is interesting to note that the experience of the WWII soldier is probably no better or worse than that of soldiers in subsequent wars, yet there seems to have been fewer that came home with mental issues. That may be because it was not acceptable then and people are encouraged to be more open now. Or because, and I think this may be the case, that people were affected, they just did a better job of hiding it because of societal pressures to get back and resume life after the war.
My ex husband has an uncle that was in the Battle Of The Bulge, and for years afterward, if he heard a plane flying overhead he would duck for cover anywhere he was. He had a successful career, though. He seemed to be otherwise able to function.
He had a rough time with some vets in later conflicts that becamed disabled mentally from their experience. Of course, that was a diferent time, and there was no PTSD, only "combat fatigue", which was frowned upon as a weakness. He said that soldiers had to just out it all out of their minds, or try to, and get on with life. I think it is interesting to note that the experience of the WWII soldier is probably no better or worse than that of soldiers in subsequent wars, yet there seems to have been fewer that came home with mental issues. That may be because it was not acceptable then and people are encouraged to be more open now. Or because, and I think this may be the case, that people were affected, they just did a better job of hiding it because of societal pressures to get back and resume life after the war.
My ex husband has an uncle that was in the Battle Of The Bulge, and for years afterward, if he heard a plane flying overhead he would duck for cover anywhere he was. He had a successful career, though. He seemed to be otherwise able to function.
Lammie I have heard a couple of theories regarding the Battle Fatigue suffered by Viet Nam vets relative to WWII vets. The theory that seems to make the most sense is that the average age of soldiers in Viet Nam was much younger(19) than WWII (24). I coud be off a year or two on the WWII number but it was significant.
The other thing that made a difference was WWII was viewed by the American public as a MORAL war while Viet Nam was not. Bottom line is the guys that were in Viet Nam got the wrong end of the stick on both counts. I personally saw returning Viet Nam vets getting spit on in the San Francisco airport in 1971, it made me sick.
The other thing that made a difference was WWII was viewed by the American public as a MORAL war while Viet Nam was not. Bottom line is the guys that were in Viet Nam got the wrong end of the stick on both counts. I personally saw returning Viet Nam vets getting spit on in the San Francisco airport in 1971, it made me sick.
I think you are probably right on that. I do think that some WWII vets had a hard time adjusting, though. Have you ever seen the movie, The Best Years Of Our Lives? Is is about a group of WWII vets readjusting to life after wartime. I know it is fiction, but one of the actors, the one with both hands missing, was an actual vet. I can't remember his name but he was in that movie, won an Oscar, and didn't act again. It was exteremely genuine. It is my favorite WWII movie. I think that by the end of the war, particularly the last couple of years, the American public was tired of it all and ready to get on to other things. I think those vets might have had a harder time. Especially finding housing and jobs.
I do think, though, that you are right about Viet Nam being seen as a dirty war that we should not have been a part of. My own father didn't want my older brother to be drafted into it, and was thankful when he failed the physical. I admire all the people who went over there, though, in hindsight. I think it was, to some, answering the call to duty, and I can't imagine the horrors of any war.
I do think, though, that you are right about Viet Nam being seen as a dirty war that we should not have been a part of. My own father didn't want my older brother to be drafted into it, and was thankful when he failed the physical. I admire all the people who went over there, though, in hindsight. I think it was, to some, answering the call to duty, and I can't imagine the horrors of any war.
Alice,
I am not a Vet. I did serve 6 years in the Army National Gaurd. I had 2 brothers who were both drafted right out of high school into the viet nam war. I have talked with each one of them and their personal experiences is as different as day and night. One brother wound up in a part of the war like the soldiers who were in the movie platoon, the other ones experience was almost like getting a free college education. He wound up training in neculear weapons spending the majority of his time in a much safer enviroment the whole time he served his time.
But when i went through boot camp and other parts of training alot of the instructors, drill sargents etc...., were themselfs viet nam vets. One time while i was going through a non comissioned officers school the movie platoon had just started showing at movie cenimas. And alot of the men taking that course were veit nam vets and one of the instructors was also. That instructon who was a viet nam vet himself felt that the movie platoon was so close to what had happened in alot of ways as to when he himself was serving his tour that he took us all ( everyone taking his course at the time ) down to see the movie. He told the other vets taking the course that he felt it would help them the best i can remember now in some way to help them deal with what they had went through. I really never did understand how it would help them to relive what they had gone through. But i do remember a couple of the men watching the movie really teering up while watching it.
I will say this. From what i experienced while i was in the military i can very easily see alot of the things that took place in the movie platoon really happening. I sincerely feel that anyone who would spit on a vet of any past, present or future war should be taken out and shot. War is like anything else in life, there is the way people think it should be fought version and then there is the reality version of how things really turn out in a real sitution sort of the way it plays out in the movie platoon. All of these men and women who served and are serving our country today should be treated with the greatest respect possible.
I am not a Vet. I did serve 6 years in the Army National Gaurd. I had 2 brothers who were both drafted right out of high school into the viet nam war. I have talked with each one of them and their personal experiences is as different as day and night. One brother wound up in a part of the war like the soldiers who were in the movie platoon, the other ones experience was almost like getting a free college education. He wound up training in neculear weapons spending the majority of his time in a much safer enviroment the whole time he served his time.
But when i went through boot camp and other parts of training alot of the instructors, drill sargents etc...., were themselfs viet nam vets. One time while i was going through a non comissioned officers school the movie platoon had just started showing at movie cenimas. And alot of the men taking that course were veit nam vets and one of the instructors was also. That instructon who was a viet nam vet himself felt that the movie platoon was so close to what had happened in alot of ways as to when he himself was serving his tour that he took us all ( everyone taking his course at the time ) down to see the movie. He told the other vets taking the course that he felt it would help them the best i can remember now in some way to help them deal with what they had went through. I really never did understand how it would help them to relive what they had gone through. But i do remember a couple of the men watching the movie really teering up while watching it.
I will say this. From what i experienced while i was in the military i can very easily see alot of the things that took place in the movie platoon really happening. I sincerely feel that anyone who would spit on a vet of any past, present or future war should be taken out and shot. War is like anything else in life, there is the way people think it should be fought version and then there is the reality version of how things really turn out in a real sitution sort of the way it plays out in the movie platoon. All of these men and women who served and are serving our country today should be treated with the greatest respect possible.
Lammie":1sfv1ebd said:
Had a guy working for me that had been under Patton in Europe. Any time the movie showed he would be strange (stranger) for about a week. Then he would get back to what was normal for him
Thanks, Stepper. I'll make sure my grandson sees your post. And, I'm with you...anyone that disrespects soldiers returning from war should be b**ch slapped into the middle of next week, or farther.
Alice
Alice
mnmtranching
Well-known member
Most people if they live long enough will wetness death. Most that survive battles have seen close friends die. Many of us have seen death in war and seen death in civilian life. For instance being the surviver of a traffic accident is just as hard as being a surviver in war. Putting things into perspective, any time anybody has to witness a tragic death the trauma is comparable to war. Not easy. Truth is, you got to go on.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Alice":bw0qxxge said:mnmtranching":bw0qxxge said:
Another excellent perspective! Thank you soooo much.
Alice
A bit different in reality...the wreck survivor doesn't have a wreck everyday or every other day nor have hundreds of cars literally trying to wreck him out. (Hopefully).
A bit different in reality...the wreck survivor doesn't have a wreck everyday or every other day nor have hundreds of cars literally trying to wreck him out. (Hopefully).[/quote]
You apparently have never driven in Colorado in the summertime. Having said that I don't want anyone to think I'm complaining, we love our company, and appreciate their money, A LOT
You apparently have never driven in Colorado in the summertime. Having said that I don't want anyone to think I'm complaining, we love our company, and appreciate their money, A LOT
TexasBred
Well-known member
3waycross":2gjn95d2 said:
You apparently have never driven in Colorado in the summertime. Having said that I don't want anyone to think I'm complaining, we love our company, and appreciate their money, A LOT[/quote]
hahaha...I can only imagine....I'd probably be one of the worst...guess I better remain a flatlander for the time being.
