Goodbye Gimli

[Boot Jack Bulls]

We have clay and rocks. No loam or sand to speak of. White horn seems softer and more prone to disease and injury.

 

[Bright Raven]

We have clay and rocks. No loam or sand to speak of. White horn seems softer and more prone to disease and injury.

Do you have a reference to support that? I have heard that but never seen a study to back it up.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

We have clay and rocks. No loam or sand to speak of. White horn seems softer and more prone to disease and injury.

Do you have a reference to support that? I have heard that but never seen a study to back it up.

No, but 30+ years with registered app horses taught me. My observation has been that white horn has been more prone to thrush, punture, pancaking and cracking. White hide on lower legs is also more prone to pasture scald and a condition called scratches.

 

[Bright Raven]

We have clay and rocks. No loam or sand to speak of. White horn seems softer and more prone to disease and injury.

Do you have a reference to support that? I have heard that but never seen a study to back it up.

No, but 30+ years with registered app horses taught me. My observation has been that white horn has been more prone to thrush, punture, pancaking and cracking. White hide on lower legs is also more prone to pasture scald and a condition called scratches.

Thank you.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Do you have a reference to support that? I have heard that but never seen a study to back it up.

No, but 30+ years with registered app horses taught me. My observation has been that white horn has been more prone to thrush, punture, pancaking and cracking. White hide on lower legs is also more prone to pasture scald and a condition called scratches.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

 

[elkwc]

We have clay and rocks. No loam or sand to speak of. White horn seems softer and more prone to disease and injury.

Do you have a reference to support that? I have heard that but never seen a study to back it up.

BR I shodhorses for several years. A white footed horse had a softer foot wall and harder to keep a shoe tight on. I never saw any disease issues. A few of the best horses I ever put shoes on had white feet. And the reason I got one was because other shoers couldn't keep a shoe on him. I usually changed their shoes at least a week earlier than normal. On cattle I've seen them run in rocky country and never seen a lot of trouble. Once the rocks trim them up I'm not sure if they get harder or what but they seem to do ok. I don't like white feet but it isn't a deal breaker for me. Know for some old timers it was. It depends on a persons personal experience.

 

[Bright Raven]

We have clay and rocks. No loam or sand to speak of. White horn seems softer and more prone to disease and injury.

Do you have a reference to support that? I have heard that but never seen a study to back it up.

BR I shodhorses for several years. A white footed horse had a softer foot wall and harder to keep a shoe tight on. I never saw any disease issues. A few of the best horses I ever put shoes on had white feet. And the reason I got one was because other shoers couldn't keep a shoe on him. I usually changed their shoes at least a week earlier than normal. On cattle I've seen them run in rocky country and never seen a lot of trouble. Once the rocks trim them up I'm not sure if they get harder or what but they seem to do ok. I don't like white feet but it isn't a deal breaker for me. Know for some old timers it was. It depends on a persons personal experience.

Thanks. I am always a little skeptical of anecdotal evidence. Just my nature. I appreciate getting information from guys like you and Boot Jack, but I think she is not a guy! Thank you both. I have a feeling he will do fine on those feet.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Raven, you are correct, I am female. Also, I hope you don't have the impression I don't appreciate what your bull brings to the table, but I do prefer dark feet. I enjoy evaluating various stock and enjoy a good debate, that is all.

 

[Bright Raven]

Raven, you are correct, I am female. Also, I hope you don't have the impression I don't appreciate what your bull brings to the table, but I do prefer dark feet. I enjoy evaluating various stock and enjoy a good debate, that is all.

I appreciate your input. Evaluating stock is as they say "arbitrary and capricious". It is not as easy as math where right or wrong is precise. I enjoy it immensely.

I am happy that you have an overall good impression of the bull. He has a good pedigree and his EPDs are very good.

I got you on my good list. ;-)

 

[Nesikep]

Do you have a reference to support that? I have heard that but never seen a study to back it up.

BR I shodhorses for several years. A white footed horse had a softer foot wall and harder to keep a shoe tight on. I never saw any disease issues. A few of the best horses I ever put shoes on had white feet. And the reason I got one was because other shoers couldn't keep a shoe on him. I usually changed their shoes at least a week earlier than normal. On cattle I've seen them run in rocky country and never seen a lot of trouble. Once the rocks trim them up I'm not sure if they get harder or what but they seem to do ok. I don't like white feet but it isn't a deal breaker for me. Know for some old timers it was. It depends on a persons personal experience.

Thanks. I am always a little skeptical of anecdotal evidence. Just my nature. I appreciate getting information from guys like you and Boot Jack, but I think she is not a guy! Thank you both. I have a feeling he will do fine on those feet.

When we had predominantly hereford cows, they routinely had bad (white) feet, but there were a few bloodlines that never had a problem.
25 years later, and about 5 generations down the line, most of the animals have dark hooves, because we heard the same anecdotal evidence way back then.. however, the maternal lines that had problems back then still have them now, even after dark hooves for generations.. Meanwhile, the lines that never had problems have progeny with white hooves (at least a couple white socks), and they have perfect feet that wear well even into old age.

 

[callmefence]

So I take it Fence is a Tolkien fan?

Dam straight.... when the heat gets to much to bear. I find a big live oak, preferably by a live creek. I pull a bottle of fine wine from my yeti. And lay back and read tales of the hobbits.

True grit did tell me to slow down and smell the flowers you Know.

I'm glad you finally figured out how good Yeti type coolers are.

Not overly impressed with ice keeping ability but it's one tough sob. If you pretty much live out of a cooler on the back of a flatbed...Worth every penny.

 

[Logan52]

There is no doubt that white feet are softer than black feet in sheep, as attested to by trimming many hundreds of them over the years.
They also seem more prone to foot rot and to either overgrow or become worn down in extreme conditions.
Always exceptions and not a deal breaker with sheep either, but I do prefer good black feet, all else being equal.

 

[Bestoutwest]

What a great thread! To me, this bull appears to look like he's a costume, meaning his back legs look like the back half of an animal costume. Is this the typical look with post legged animals? And what is the drawback for post legged animals?

 

[Bright Raven]

What a great thread! To me, this bull appears to look like he's a costume, meaning his back legs look like the back half of an animal costume. Is this the typical look with post legged animals? And what is the drawback for post legged animals?

Boot Jack's post above does a good job explaining the preferred angle of the lower leg. In motion is the preferred way to observe proper rear leg form, i.e. live motion or video. If a bull is too straight in the lower rear leg, it can be hard on the tarsals and metatarsals. An ungulate moves on the tips of its digits. Mankind walks on the entire foot on the ground. Thus, in cattle the bottom of the foot and heel is off the ground. Those joints take some wear if they are too straight resulting in the potential for shorter longevity.

 

[callmefence]

What a great thread! To me, this bull appears to look like he's a costume, meaning his back legs look like the back half of an animal costume. Is this the typical look with post legged animals? And what is the drawback for post legged animals?

It's one of those snappy phrases show cow people like to say when their standing round talking crap.
Of no real importance in agriculture.

 

[Bright Raven]

What a great thread! To me, this bull appears to look like he's a costume, meaning his back legs look like the back half of an animal costume. Is this the typical look with post legged animals? And what is the drawback for post legged animals?

It's one of those snappy phrases show cow people like to say when their standing round talking crap.
Of no real importance in agriculture.

My fine Texas Fisherman - There is more reality in that explanation than all the ruminations above. Lol

 

[Bestoutwest]

What a great thread! To me, this bull appears to look like he's a costume, meaning his back legs look like the back half of an animal costume. Is this the typical look with post legged animals? And what is the drawback for post legged animals?

It's one of those snappy phrases show cow people like to say when their standing round talking crap.
Of no real importance in agriculture.

My fine Texas Fisherman - There is more reality in that explanation than all the ruminations above. Lol

Thanks for the explanations.

 

[Nesikep]

In my herd, it seems like bad hooves come more from bad/weak bone structure.. if the joint, muscle and bone aren't up to the job of putting weight on the tip of the hoof, it won't wear, once it doesn't wear, it puts more strain on it and it's all downhill from there... sickle hocked cattle are more of a concern to me than post-legged ones for that reason

 

[elkwc]

I have found like BR and others it is hard to take a good picture of cattle especially when a bull is in that 12-24 month stage. Many grow and get gangly. And they can look different everytime they stop. I like to judge them just like a horse on the move. I agree with the other posters about that. I've found if they move good and knock their tracks out they will likely be ok when mature.

 

[Nesikep]

This is Marko at weaning.. he grew into his legs later.. His daughters tend to be pretty stocky, his sons seem a little taller.. he's strong on the chrome as well