Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
That a tough deal Buddy.
Red Bull Breeder":25kl4nkp said:That a tough deal Buddy.
thats a really good point, and would make sense why the antibiotics didnt help. coulda screwed up his lungs too bad to recover frombranguscowgirl":o9lyzfrl said:Sorry to hear this 3way. I hope that you get some answers, I hate the unknown worse than anything.
The symptoms sound like aspiration pneumonia. Any chance that he could have accidentally gotten a Sulfa bolus in his lung?
MO_cows":dznknqxl said:I'm sorry you caught such a tough break on this bull. If he was a flatland bull, nobody would care about the PAP test and he'd probably be fine today. Another example of how "no good deed goes unpunished".
Rafter S":1c2hfxj7 said:MO_cows":1c2hfxj7 said:I'm sorry you caught such a tough break on this bull. If he was a flatland bull, nobody would care about the PAP test and he'd probably be fine today. Another example of how "no good deed goes unpunished".
Someone enlighten me please. What is a PAP test? I've seen it mentioned here on the forum several times lately, but had never heard of one before.
mmroxie":3rzbv34h said:thats a really good point, and would make sense why the antibiotics didnt help. coulda screwed up his lungs too bad to recover frombranguscowgirl":3rzbv34h said:Sorry to hear this 3way. I hope that you get some answers, I hate the unknown worse than anything.
The symptoms sound like aspiration pneumonia. Any chance that he could have accidentally gotten a Sulfa bolus in his lung?
LauraleesFarm":1o9zut3y said:Thanks for posting the reason for doing PA pressures on a bull. I'm an ICU nurse and it intrigued me. Even in critical care patients we do not measure PA pressures except once in a blue moon due to the increased risk of pulmonary emboli. I can't see how a bovine would have less risk, or how the benefit of this knowledge would outweigh the risk.
Its just about the most invasive thing you could do to a living body, except for coronary artery cannulation/stenting or something intracranial. Is this something that everyone in mountainous regions has to do to pass a breeding soundness exam?
Absolutely if they are going to run above 7500ft they have to be pap'd. The way it works is they turn the bulls head to his left and hit him in the jugular with a heavy guage needle then they run a probe that is about the same diameter as heavy butchers twine into the needle and down into his heart. The probe is hooked to a computer screen and it gives a series of reading that are intrepreted by the vet then the whole rig is pulled out.
And if so, wouldn't the cows need testing also?
We have started paping the heifers every fall when we wean. Anything that is a candidate for replacement status is pap tested about 6 weeks after weaning. We don't do it earlier because of the weaning stress giving us false readings.
Very interesting indeed.
We do have some less invasive ways of measuring/calculating human cardiac index/outputs without actually wedging a pressure nowdays, using femoral arterial lines.
Kingfisher":1blq52pb said:mmroxie":1blq52pb said:thats a really good point, and would make sense why the antibiotics didnt help. coulda screwed up his lungs too bad to recover frombranguscowgirl":1blq52pb said:Sorry to hear this 3way. I hope that you get some answers, I hate the unknown worse than anything.
The symptoms sound like aspiration pneumonia. Any chance that he could have accidentally gotten a Sulfa bolus in his lung?
Well...if that's the case the most bad be nice vet in the world killed that Bull?...
bball":1evy9tqp said:Perhaps the bolus gun introduced an infection into the esophagus that isn't responding to the typical broad spectrum antibiotics, only getting short term relief from anti flam effect of steroids...or the gun traumatized the esophageal tissue, causing significant inflammation (enough to restrict trachea) antibiotics wouldn't help this, and steroid treatment would provide temporary relief of inflammation. Pure speculation , either way, I am sorry for your troubles.
LauraleesFarm":1t2h26pr said:Thanks for posting the reason for doing PA pressures on a bull. I'm an ICU nurse and it intrigued me. Even in critical care patients we do not measure PA pressures except once in a blue moon due to the increased risk of pulmonary emboli. I can't see how a bovine would have less risk, or how the benefit of this knowledge would outweigh the risk. Its just about the most invasive thing you could do to a living body, except for coronary artery cannulation/stenting or something intracranial. Is this something that everyone in mountainous regions has to do to pass a breeding soundness exam?
And if so, wouldn't the cows need testing also?
Very interesting indeed.
We do have some less invasive ways of measuring/calculating human cardiac index/outputs without actually wedging a pressure nowdays, using femoral arterial lines.
3waycross":19xpy8t4 said:I have a real nice purebred red Gelbvieh bull that looked a little off and appeared to have a mild case of footrot starting.
alisonb":19fceity said:3waycross":19fceity said:I have a real nice purebred red Gelbvieh bull that looked a little off and appeared to have a mild case of footrot starting.
You may be dealing with secondary infection now, one has to wonder why he 'looked a bit off' before the PAP test. Was it indeed footrot or something much more serious.
This is lousy for you, even worse seeing the animal going down hill and not knowing why. Hope he surprises you and recovers.