God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

[W.B.]

How long can the average bull produce semen?
How many straws can an average bull produce?

That really depends. As an Example SAV Resource is about 9 yrs. old and still going strong and has over 10,000 registered progeny. A full brother SAV Recharge was done at 4 yrs of age. The really good one last until their early teens but most are unsaleable after about 5-6 yrs of age because something newer and better came along.

 

[Hunter]

Thanks for the responses. I was just trying to gage how many straws they would need to sell to make a profit.

Maybe in the future I will have time to learn how to A.I. myself as I think there are advantages to doing it.

 

[NEFarmwife]

Called it. 5000 units pre-sold and likely won't be able to handle the demand but consider President. Can't blame them, tough to collect so much semen on a young bull.

How much of that is the breeder "buying" their own straws to create demand? I remember seeing ads in the cutting horse magazine for studs. They would thank the buyers. A two page ad filled with names, and if you read through all the names of the places that purchased a breeding, you would notice that some would be brazen enough to list themselves for their mares they were breeding to that stud. When you add 30 breedings of your own horses, it really makes that ~100 look pretty good.

Maybe I'm too cynical. Maybe I'm not cynical enough. Who knows. But one thing that I've learned in life is that there are some folks that will do anything for that almighty dollar.

Sure of it. I am certain with the buzz before sale, he was pre-ordered in great quantities but I am sure a good portion was of the owner. They did well in promoting him.

And for those whom did pre-order... how many won't follow thru because of the price?

 

[jscunn]

23,453 straws of semen must be sold @ $80 to recoop the purchase price. Not figuring AI certs just semen. If he comes close to that number the certs will certainly put him over the top.. Also not considering collection cost (could be free), feed, water, minerals, advertising, etc.

 

[Bright Raven]

I think threads like this are very educational. It has drawn out peoples views on how they select animals, what they desire and look for and dug that bit deeper than what is just normally said. Yes there are differing views and a few bum fights but it has woken a lot up. Yes, it has put some to sleep as well, those that have very little interest in the seedstock industry, I haven't seen the likes of Fence comment too much but overall to me very interesting.

Ken

How could a cattle forum not discuss the high selling bull of all time??? Kudos to Branded for initiating this thread.

And if Branded is Brash - IMO, there are others who let their sensitivity to his brashness cause them to make personal attacks. I am not sure who wears the more distasteful mantle.

:cboy:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

How long can the average bull produce semen?
How many straws can an average bull produce?

That really depends. As an Example SAV Resource is about 9 yrs. old and still going strong and has over 10,000 registered progeny. A full brother SAV Recharge was done at 4 yrs of age. The really good one last until their early teens but most are unsaleable after about 5-6 yrs of age because something newer and better came along.

I wonder how many are actually done?? are do they do that when sales lull, to recreate demand..jack up the prices on a limited number of units..course if they are finished at a early age and you have retained heifers, might give a feller a sinking feeling :cowboy:

 

[Bright Raven]

In the Simmental Breed, it is like everything else in life, it takes some time to sort things out. The really great bulls still keep being used. Built Right, Dream On, Upgrade, Shear Force, etc. The semen just keeps going up until there is no more.

 

[Luckiamute]

How long can the average bull produce semen?
How many straws can an average bull produce?

Not sure I have those answers, but here's a good example for reference. Mytty In Focus is/was one of the most popular Black Angus bulls of all time. I remember recently reading something that he is in the top 5 all-time for breed registrations. I believe that number is more than 45,000 head. Keep in mind that these are just the REGISTERED offspring. They do not include commercial calves ... and he was a very popular bull with the commercial sector during his heyday.

 

[Ky hills]

Thanks for the responses. I was just trying to gage how many straws they would need to sell to make a profit.

Maybe in the future I will have time to learn how to A.I. myself as I think there are advantages to doing it.

In my opinion you are correct that there are advantages to doing the AI yourself. If you hire it done it's usually now a days timed AI, which I don't think gets near as good of conception rates as if you can watch them and breed them as they are ready.

 

[Till-Hill]

How long can the average bull produce semen?
How many straws can an average bull produce?

Not sure I have those answers, but here's a good example for reference. Mytty In Focus is/was one of the most popular Black Angus bulls of all time. I remember recently reading something that he is in the top 5 all-time for breed registrations. I believe that number is more than 45,000 head. Keep in mind that these are just the REGISTERED offspring. They do not include commercial calves ... and he was a very popular bull with the commercial sector during his heyday.

Holstein article on bulls that have produced a million units. https://hoards.com/blog-491-elite-semen-producers-hit-million-unit-mark.html

 

[Bestoutwest]

How long can the average bull produce semen?
How many straws can an average bull produce?

Not sure I have those answers, but here's a good example for reference. Mytty In Focus is/was one of the most popular Black Angus bulls of all time. I remember recently reading something that he is in the top 5 all-time for breed registrations. I believe that number is more than 45,000 head. Keep in mind that these are just the REGISTERED offspring. They do not include commercial calves ... and he was a very popular bull with the commercial sector during his heyday.

This is from the Mytty ranch website.

First calves on the ground this fall are light with lots of vigor. .... Mytty In Focus ... He has been bred to over 300,000 commercial heifers across the country.

 

[Till-Hill]

Just read an article 2.5 million units of beef semen were sold in USA in 2018, did not account for exported

 

[CattleMan1920]

I think this has been a very interesting, informative and as well irritating discussion. Tempers have flared as comparisons made. I think that as Raven stated there is a disconnect between some registered and commercial outfits. It's unfair to compare management of either against the other, different goals that seem antagonistic yet ultimately should work out to an eventual symbiotic relationship of sorts. A commercial producer has to watch their bottom line close with expenses on the rise and cattle prices ever changing yet seldom rising to a level of comfort. Doesn't mean they aren't doing it right or perpetuating poor management practices. I have seen quite a change in management across the board in my 44 years. Commercial producers are doing more with less in accordance in return than ever before. The few incentives are sometimes not really worth the extra labor and expense.
Registered producers are in a business that relies on pomp and circumstance as a mainstay of advertising and promotion. I used to utilize AI in my registered herd. Had calves one year by a bull that had sold half interest for $75,000, one for $50,000, one for 35,000 that had won an Alabama bull test and maybe set a record I don't remember all the details that was back in the early 90's. That was a real good calf crop, sold them for an average of $1000, was hoping for more but the tide was turning then and demand was low. I get some satisfaction in that a cousin and a friend each got one and both Bulls ended staying in their herds for several years. I believe my cousin used his bull for 7 years. I always bred cattle with the commercial breeder in mind because that was my customer base. Today no one will likely ever have heard of any of those Bulls except for perhaps folks involved during that time period. The goal post keeps moving.
If I were a registered Angus breeder of any size, I would likely try to use this young SAV bull at least on a small number as I believe the calves will be in demand in those circles for at least a time. With new ones coming one frequently attention shifts to the next quickly. Some as they are proven to be something special will maintain a level of market acceptance for several years.
From a commercial standpoint which is where I am now, I would not use that bull simply because of price. I have AI bred almost our whole herd 4 years ago to PA Power Tool and Stevensons Rockmount. And kept a registered son of both Bulls, still have the PowerTool, he is out of an Image Maker X Nichols Extra H6 daughter. His calves are some very nice fast growing calves, so I would consider him to be a definite herd improver for us. I have also used Hoover Dam, on some registered and commercial cows and heifers. I feel 20$ a straw is going to get some real good Bulls for commercial or purebred/registered AI. To that point I also see nothing wrong with using good quality home raised Bulls. They are not always inferior, and are usually well suited for their environments and management. This home raised Power Tool bull is putting some nice calves on the ground, time will tell for maternal quality.

I like everything you said. If folks don't want to touch SAV America 8018. Herbster has a bull that I think would make sense for the commercial producer doing AI, SAV Cutting Edge. You don't hear much about him, but he is a really good bull from what I can tell. Here is a video of him.

http://bit.ly/2UX9ehv

 

[Bestoutwest]

I still can't see justifying $80/straw on an unproven bull when there's literally dozens of bulls with better percentages on solid numbers for a fraction of the price. And I'm not talking about junk bulls, I'm talking bulls that are still pretty strong. The difference is that those other bulls have been doing it, for multiple herds, and proving that they're pretty good.

Maybe in a few years he'll prove his weight in gold, but for now I just don't see it.

 

[Bright Raven]

I still can't see justifying $80/straw on an unproven bull when there's literally dozens of bulls with better percentages on solid numbers for a fraction of the price. And I'm not talking about junk bulls, I'm talking bulls that are still pretty strong. The difference is that those other bulls have been doing it, for multiple herds, and proving that they're pretty good.

Maybe in a few years he'll prove his weight in gold, but for now I just don't see it.

If you wait, you are too late.

 

[CattleMan1920]

One thing I have noticed after reading through a lot of these postings is this, a lot of people, and I mean a LOT!, seem to NOT be too fond of SAV. I try to figure it out, but cannot at this time.

I've also noticed this, there are some MAJOR ranches that have sold top, highly desirable bulls, and they fell flat on their face as far as semen production. I won't mention names, but I'm sure some of you know who they are. Bull is a sale topper, then POOF! where is the semen? Where is the bull? You never hear of them again. You keep calling, and you keep getting excuses why he is not available.

I don't see that happen too often at SAV or Herbster Angus, if EVER. I've never called Herbster and been told "Sorry, but Harvestor or International is not producing, or President is having trouble, we'll get back with you when things sort themselves out" I've never been told that ever by them. That tells me that those bulls have some serious merit, and the I know they have merit because I settle cows/heifers with them usually on the first try versus some of the Select Sires and Origen semen I have used. Which by the way, I won't stop using, and I have a tank full of ABS, Origen, and Select Sires bulls.

Things happen in the cattle business, and I know it must be extremely disappointing to have your top bull not produce quality semen, good enough to guarantee a certain level of quality.

From all my experiences with Charles Herbster, he goes over the bulls with a fine tooth comb. I know for a fact that he put Bubs Southern Charm under a lot of scrutiny before he made a decision on him, which makes me very comfortable in using the bull moving forward.

I'm not saying other ranches play fast and lose with things, but one thing I really like about SAV and Herbster is that if the semen is not top notch, it doesn't get sold. That matters to me when I'm spending money and time AI'ng. It should matter to you as well.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I still can't see justifying $80/straw on an unproven bull when there's literally dozens of bulls with better percentages on solid numbers for a fraction of the price. And I'm not talking about junk bulls, I'm talking bulls that are still pretty strong. The difference is that those other bulls have been doing it, for multiple herds, and proving that they're pretty good.

Maybe in a few years he'll prove his weight in gold, but for now I just don't see it.

If you wait, you are too late.

There is definitely a first mover advantage, but for those that have to see a bull perform for years and years, then they need to breed to Hoover Dam or MYTTY in Focus. I have progeny from both in my herd, but nobody will be excited about buying those names at this point, they are old news in the eyes of many.

I just finished breeding some cows to EXAR Denver 2002B for my own personal use, because if I offered the progeny, nobody would be interested in calves out of him anymore. I'm trying for some daughters, and if I get sons they probably won't sell for much. He's a really good bull, but like I said, yesterday's news.

 

[plumber_greg]

I wonder, if using America and you are a seedstock producer, are you mating him with females whose EPDs and phenotypes will enhance the offspring, or are you simply using a name to sell offspring.
No herd, anywhere, has even half of there females that would be the ideal cow to mate with him.
I've worked around several purebred breeders.
Rent some pasture to one that has several bulls at Genex and Select Sires. Every cow of his is studied and the correct mating attempted. He uses several AI sires every year.
Simply breeding a name to a name does not guarantee a correct calf. An attempt to make the calf, whether a bull or heifer, better than the mamma is way more complicated than that, that's why every bull prospect shouldn't be a bull. GS

 

[Bright Raven]

One thing I have noticed after reading through a lot of these postings is this, a lot of people, and I mean a LOT!, seem to NOT be too fond of SAV. I try to figure it out, but cannot at this time.

I've also noticed this, there are some MAJOR ranches that have sold top, highly desirable bulls, and they fell flat on their face as far as semen production. I won't mention names, but I'm sure some of you know who they are. Bull is a sale topper, then POOF! where is the semen? Where is the bull? You never hear of them again. You keep calling, and you keep getting excuses why he is not available.

I don't see that happen too often at SAV or Herbster Angus, if EVER. I've never called Herbster and been told "Sorry, but Harvestor or International is not producing, or President is having trouble, we'll get back with you when things sort themselves out" I've never been told that ever by them. That tells me that those bulls have some serious merit, and the I know they have merit because I settle cows/heifers with them usually on the first try versus some of the Select Sires and Origen semen I have used. Which by the way, I won't stop using, and I have a tank full of ABS, Origen, and Select Sires bulls.

Things happen in the cattle business, and I know it must be extremely disappointing to have your top bull not produce quality semen, good enough to guarantee a certain level of quality.

From all my experiences with Charles Herbster, he goes over the bulls with a fine tooth comb. I know for a fact that he put Bubs Southern Charm under a lot of scrutiny before he made a decision on him, which makes me very comfortable in using the bull moving forward.

I'm not saying other ranches play fast and lose with things, but one thing I really like about SAV and Herbster is that if the semen is not top notch, it doesn't get sold. That matters to me when I'm spending money and time AI'ng. It should matter to you as well.

There is a paucity of these type ailments in the Simmental Breed but it does happen. ;-)

Cowboy Cut just went through a hiccup. I also had this discussion with a Genex Representative. Keep in mind, these bulls are at times managed in difficult environments where the bulls don't have much room and don't get enough exercise. The life of a gigalo bull is not all it is cracked up to be.

 

[Dave]

One thing I have noticed after reading through a lot of these postings is this, a lot of people, and I mean a LOT!, seem to NOT be too fond of SAV. I try to figure it out, but cannot at this time.

I just looked through the 2018 beef sire directory from Select Sires. Of the 72 Angus bulls in the directory only 9 are SAV. Three of the nine are brand new bulls with an accuracy of .05%. Only about 1 in 7 or 8 have SAV in the pedigree. Those are mainly Bismark or Final Answer. There are 14 other bulls listed before the first SAV. The others are buried way to the back of the directory. My conclusion is that Select Sires isn't exactly promoting them.
That said I used a Bismark son for several years and was real happy with him. But I also had an Image Maker son that I really liked until someone filled the switch and he became dangerous.