Genestar ramblings

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dun

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Because of a previous post on the subject I have been looking through the CRI/GENEX catalog and looking into the marbeling tenderness Genestar ratings. While there isn't anway to evaluate the tenderness gene, I noticed there isn't a real correlation between the marbeling EPDs and th genestar markers. Some have stars for marbeling and poor EPDs, others have no stars and high EPDs. If the correlation for tenderness relates as closely to the real world as the marbeling does, I wonder what value there is for the testing other then just one more gimmick. I certainly wouldn't base any selection criteria on them.

dun
 
A

Anonymous

I was woundering also why high marbleing lines do not have copies of the marker. Gar precision 1680 can have only one marker at best , he and his sons have above average EPD's for marbleing. I would like to see the results of the marc test for marbling and how it compares to epd's.

pat
 

Colin Chevalley

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Here in Australia a lot of sale catalogues have genestar figures in them.
A lot of buyers are taking note of this tool.
I would take more notice of it than the often trumped up Breedplan and EPD figures.
I fail to see how you can correlate any EPDS against anything else when the figures don't allow for seasonal or feeding variations.
Breedplan or EPDs were only designed for those who could not select an animal by visual appraisal or a little research.
Here in Australia there is another form of evaluation called Supergene,probably just another con,I have yet to see a lengthy evaluation years down the track of this system.
:idea:
 
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Anonymous

pat b":2g66u888 said:
I was woundering also why high marbleing lines do not have copies of the marker. Gar precision 1680 can have only one marker at best , he and his sons have above average EPD's for marbleing. I would like to see the results of the marc test for marbling and how it compares to epd's.

pat

AHAA!!!!!!! See! I knew the Angus breed were not God's creatures! Tells me that lower marbling means you get a Genestar for tenderness! I think ALL cattle should be in the Genestar programs....boy oh boy the Angus breed would lose its popularity in the hurry! Which will be good, people will start buying HEALTHY, low marlbing (fat) beef! WHOOO HOO! Anything cross with Bison will have a High Genestar ratings!
 

paul swisher

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I Have headed the American Pinzgauer Tenderness Testing program. We got involved primarily to document what we knew that our Beef was equal to or better than others. 87% of Pinzgauers tested were GeneSTAR 2 Star. This compares with a MARC research study reported in the Journal of Animal Science 1994. The MARC study was based on Mean shear force comparsion to other breeds this shows that DNA testing is valid in forcasting tenderness. We did no marbling testing because marbling has less than 10% effect on tenderness. I know of one major Branded Beef company that selects only tender DNA Tested bulls. A newly developed test from MARC test for Calpain vice Calpastatin and also shows much value. I know you cannot have single trait bulls but when you have a quality bull and Tenderness it seems you are dumb not to use him instead of some unknown.
P.S. Angus test 76% 2 Star 23% 1 Star
 

la4angus

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Oregonian":1njry94l said:
pat b":1njry94l said:
I was woundering also why high marbleing lines do not have copies of the marker. Gar precision 1680 can have only one marker at best , he and his sons have above average EPD's for marbleing. I would like to see the results of the marc test for marbling and how it compares to epd's.

pat

AHAA!!!!!!! See! I knew the Angus breed were not God's creatures! Tells me that lower marbling means you get a Genestar for tenderness! I think ALL cattle should be in the Genestar programs....boy oh boy the Angus breed would lose its popularity in the hurry! Which will be good, people will start buying HEALTHY, low marlbing (fat) beef! WHOOO HOO! Anything cross with Bison will have a High Genestar ratings!

What tree did you fall out of.
 
A

Anonymous

I thought the new marc test was for marbling? Were can I find more info on this test? The genestar test is looking for a marker that might influence marbling? If I read genestar site right they had 5000 steers as test subjects. Gar Precision 1680 has almost 3000 offspring ultrasound and carcass data recorded. One would have to assume that his EPD's are accurate with that large of sample. I find it interesting to see the results but it is hard to put alot of faith in the technology at this point.

pat
 
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Anonymous

la4angus":19ddm3wk said:
Oregonian":19ddm3wk said:
pat b":19ddm3wk said:
I was woundering also why high marbleing lines do not have copies of the marker. Gar precision 1680 can have only one marker at best , he and his sons have above average EPD's for marbleing. I would like to see the results of the marc test for marbling and how it compares to epd's.

pat

AHAA!!!!!!! See! I knew the Angus breed were not God's creatures! Tells me that lower marbling means you get a Genestar for tenderness! I think ALL cattle should be in the Genestar programs....boy oh boy the Angus breed would lose its popularity in the hurry! Which will be good, people will start buying HEALTHY, low marlbing (fat) beef! WHOOO HOO! Anything cross with Bison will have a High Genestar ratings!

What tree did you fall out of.

Oregonian must have forgotten that there is almost enough Buffalo
to feed part of the meat eaters in one state. We would have a good
time fiinding enough to breed to ANGUS bulls. It is amazing how
jealousy can make a man run off at the mouth or in Oregonians
case run off at the fingers. Lower marbling does not mean that you
get a Genestar for tenderness. If you believe that, go bite into a straight bred brahman steak or a charolais steak. Be sure that you have a
supposed to be tender cut. You pprobaly won't be able to get it
chewed up enough to swallow with out choking.
Oregonian:
Are You JEALOUS of the ANGUS BREED.
Why don't you register for this messagre board, instead of
being annomyous. Makes me wonder, what you are hiding from,
or whom.
 

la4angus

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Anonymous":tup3vnya said:
la4angus":tup3vnya said:
Oregonian":tup3vnya said:
pat b":tup3vnya said:
I was woundering also why high marbleing lines do not have copies of the marker. Gar precision 1680 can have only one marker at best , he and his sons have above average EPD's for marbleing. I would like to see the results of the marc test for marbling and how it compares to epd's.

pat

AHAA!!!!!!! See! I knew the Angus breed were not God's creatures! Tells me that lower marbling means you get a Genestar for tenderness! I think ALL cattle should be in the Genestar programs....boy oh boy the Angus breed would lose its popularity in the hurry! Which will be good, people will start buying HEALTHY, low marlbing (fat) beef! WHOOO HOO! Anything cross with Bison will have a High Genestar ratings!

What tree did you fall out of.

Oregonian must have forgotten that there is almost enough Buffalo
to feed part of the meat eaters in one state. We would have a good
time fiinding enough to breed to ANGUS bulls. It is amazing how
jealousy can make a man run off at the mouth or in Oregonians
case run off at the fingers. Lower marbling does not mean that you
get a Genestar for tenderness. If you believe that, go bite into a straight bred brahman steak or a charolais steak. Be sure that you have a
supposed to be tender cut. You pprobaly won't be able to get it
chewed up enough to swallow with out choking.
Oregonian:
Are You JEALOUS of the ANGUS BREED.
Why don't you register for this messagre board, instead of
being annomyous. Makes me wonder, what you are hiding from,
or whom.


.
 

la4angus

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paul swisher":x7v72iml said:
I Have headed the American Pinzgauer Tenderness Testing program. We got involved primarily to document what we knew that our Beef was equal to or better than others. 87% of Pinzgauers tested were GeneSTAR 2 Star. This compares with a MARC research study reported in the Journal of Animal Science 1994. The MARC study was based on Mean shear force comparsion to other breeds this shows that DNA testing is valid in forcasting tenderness. We did no marbling testing because marbling has less than 10% effect on tenderness. I know of one major Branded Beef company that selects only tender DNA Tested bulls. A newly developed test from MARC test for Calpain vice Calpastatin and also shows much value. I know you cannot have single trait bulls but when you have a quality bull and Tenderness it seems you are dumb not to use him instead of some unknown.
P.S. Angus test 76% 2 Star 23% 1 Star

Sure Pinzgauer beef carries the tenderness gene. ANGUS also carries the tenderness gene. ANGUS also carries the Marbling Gene. Marbling is where you get Flavor. If all you want is tender eat a hot dog, it is tender.
Hamburgers are also tender. Vienna sausages are tender, bologna is tender. They also have flavor. Flavor comes from the fat in mixed in the meat. Veal is tender. Not very flavorful; but tender. Ice cream is made with cream. The cream has fat in it. That is where the flavor comes from.
How often do you hear people ask for a dish of Ice M.ilk. Not often, I would think. Have you ever drank a beer or Coca Cola made with just water. Not very flavorful. If you guys would just admit that you can not beat the ANGUS and accept what you have for what it is, instead of trying to knock a better product this would be a much more peaceful world.
People do not demand Certified Angus Beef just for the name. They demand Certified ANGUS Beef because it is the best and they want the best. How many markets are demanding certified pinzgauer beef, or certified longhorn beef or certified charolais beef. If their customers were asking for it they would demand it from the packers.
 
A

Anonymous

Merial has a test out called Igentity (leptin). Some are touting it as the silver bullet for marbling.

The fact is that somewhere down the road when all the markers for marbling are identified, Igentity, Genestar, physical carcass data and ultrasound (EPD's) will all mesh together to give us some idea of what lies underneath the hide.

Until then there is no easy answer.
 
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Anonymous

"I fail to see how you can correlate any EPDS against anything else when the figures don't allow for seasonal or feeding variations."

Colin which figures do you mean? EPD's are generated by data obtained only from within contemporay groups therefore all are managed the same.
 

txag

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amazed":2l9av9ga said:
"I fail to see how you can correlate any EPDS against anything else when the figures don't allow for seasonal or feeding variations."

Colin which figures do you mean? EPD's are generated by data obtained only from within contemporay groups therefore all are managed the same.

epd calculations do account for seasonal and feeding variations.
 

txag

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Colin Chevalley":34j3e1gu said:
Please explain to me how EPDs account for seasonal and feeding variations. :?:

i personally can't explain the calculations but they are designed to account for geographic, feeding, and seasonal variations. when sending in our performance data, you specify your calving season (spring or fall), they have your location on file, and you also check off whether the calves were creep fed.
 

paul swisher

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You can get more info on the MARC test from Frontier Beef - Email [email protected] One additional advantage or value of DNA testing is it is across breed effective where EPD's are questionable.
P.S. la4angus- I did not know angus claims FAT taste good. Thanks for that info
 
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dun

dun

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There are so many variables that go into both marbeling and tenderness when the carcass hangs on the rail that all of these wonderful tests may be able to predict to potential but in no way can they detrimine the final result.
Some reposrts in dicate that an agressive implant program affects marbeling, highheaded animals no matter if it's genetics or handling, illness, etc all affect the final result. We've never worried about the dna for the traits, what we are concerned about it the facts as to the eating qualities. Properly fed I would think that marbeling can be developed in any of the breeds that generally marble, tenderness is probably affected the same way. I have yet to see any actual data that quantifies the difference between these genes and an animal without them and the actual eating experience.
In some ways I classify this stuff the same as the "science" of facial whorls and there prediction of disposition.
In some ways it's like a fiend of mine told me that in vetschool they instructor told him that half of what they were being taught was wrong. The problem was they didn't know which half.

dun
 
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Anonymous

Colin Chevalley":2f6vyeyv said:
Please explain to me how EPDs account for seasonal and feeding variations. :?:

Contemporary groups are all calves born in the same herd, of the same sex and managed the same that are born in a 90 day window.

The 90 day window accounts for the seasons and any feeding variations eliminate them from the contemporary group therefore their data is not used.
 

paul swisher

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I agree that there are many outside variables that affect beef quality, feeding, handling, slaughter, hanging butchering, cooking, etc but it has been proven over and over that there is a difference in breeds regarding tenderness (and I and many other breeders think that quality is just as important as quanity) certain breeds are tougher than others. There are differences with in a breed.What DNA testing does is let you start right with a tender calf, the other factors still remain but you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear.
 

la4angus

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paul swisher":1rauuy9e said:
You can get more info on the MARC test from Frontier Beef - Email [email protected] One additional advantage or value of DNA testing is it is across breed effective where EPD's are questionable.
P.S. la4angus- I did not know angus claims FAT taste good. Thanks for that info

The marbling in meat is the small grains of fat intermingled in the muscle.
Most of it melts and drips out in the cooking process. This is what makes highly marbled meat more flavorable and desirable than the meat that is tender without any marbling. Go to your butcher shop and buy a Prime shell strip and a select shell strip. Dry cook both on the same grill at the same time and do a blind taste test. A shell strip, is the large section of the T Bone or the Porterhouse Steak. Then buy a Filet Mignon. It will be tender; with less marbling; therefore less flavorful. Be open minded and be truthful to yourself.

It has no comparison to the Flavor of the Strip
 

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