Gelbvieh /Angus Bull

[david1852]

After much research, I'm taking delivery of a 24 month old Gelbvieh/Angus X bull next week. He's from a full blooded Gelbvieh cow and a full blooded black Angus bull. He will be replacing my black Angus herd bull of 5 years.

From what I've read, the G/A cross should provide some good calves.

Since the new bull is 50/50, will I still get most of the benefits of the G/A cross? What percent of Gelbvieh will his calves be?

I'm a small cow/calf operation with 30 black Angus cows.

Thanks

 

[76 Bar]

Since the new bull is 50/50, will I still get most of the benefits of the G/A cross? What percent of Gelbvieh will his calves be?

Since the bull is a F1 cross it remains to be seen if you get the benefit of heterosis.
On paper, the resultant calves will be 1/4 Gelbvieh & 3/4 Angus.

 

[Nesikep]

It really comes down to chance as to whether he'll be prepotent.. and which breed him and his calves will take after more.. I had a half GV bull and bred to 1/2 GV cows (half sisters), the calves look more GV than many PB's I see..
Hope he works out for you and you like his calves.

 

[david1852]

76, Nesikep- Thanks. I was hoping for some heterosis benefit in the calves out of him.

My current bull came from registered Angus stock but his calves were never as good as they should have been. There were more than a few that gained weight very slow, had a couple miscarriages and a couple calves born dead or died within a few hours after birth. Until that bull we had never had a problem with any of our calves.

 

[Josher]

I found that with crossbred bulls consistency goes out the window. It's better going with straight gelbvieh to get that f1 cross. Having said that we have plenty of different combinations of gelbvieh angus cross and they make very good cows. You should make practice of pulling your bulls at 60 days or sooner. Those heifer calves are very fertile and can be bred at young age.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

If you got a good ""high percentage"" angus cow herd..he'd be ok on them..

 

[Nesikep]

I found that with crossbred bulls consistency goes out the window. It's better going with straight gelbvieh to get that f1 cross. Having said that we have plenty of different combinations of gelbvieh angus cross and they make very good cows. You should make practice of pulling your bulls at 60 days or sooner. Those heifer calves are very fertile and can be bred at young age.

I keep hearing that crossbred bulls don't have consistency, but I actually haven't found that to be true unless you have no direction as far as what phenotype you're looking for.. If you're tossing dairy into the mix, yeah, you're going to have all sorts of different animals come out of that, but if you consistently select for the same color, size and build of your animals, a crossbred will still provide uniform calves.. These days there seems to be more variation within breeds that between breeds!
With my last (crossbred) bull, Every calf was a copy of it's mother (roan cows had roan calves, red cows had red calves, etc)

Which of these cows looks like a Gelbvieh? The first is 1/2 GV (Mine), The 2nd one is a registered PB!

 

[david1852]

Thanks again everyone for the info.
From the responses so far it looks like the advantages or disadvantages of the gelbvieh/angus bull that I'm getting could go either way.

 

[JParrott]

I think you should be good either way. Is there a reason you chose this bull over a Balancer though?

 

[Josher]

I found that with crossbred bulls consistency goes out the window. It's better going with straight gelbvieh to get that f1 cross. Having said that we have plenty of different combinations of gelbvieh angus cross and they make very good cows. You should make practice of pulling your bulls at 60 days or sooner. Those heifer calves are very fertile and can be bred at young age.

I keep hearing that crossbred bulls don't have consistency, but I actually haven't found that to be true unless you have no direction as far as what phenotype you're looking for.. If you're tossing dairy into the mix, yeah, you're going to have all sorts of different animals come out of that, but if you consistently select for the same color, size and build of your animals, a crossbred will still provide uniform calves.. These days there seems to be more variation within breeds that between breeds!
With my last (crossbred) bull, Every calf was a copy of it's mother (roan cows had roan calves, red cows had red calves, etc)

Which of these cows looks like a Gelbvieh? The first is 1/2 GV (Mine), The 2nd one is a registered PB!

Good point there. It also depends what your crossing. Crossing 2 exotic breeds or 2 British breeds it probably will be a lot easier to replicate what u want providing both sides are a similar type within there breeds. But if your going with British x exotic then it'll be a little harder on the next crossing to get consistency. It's a proven fact the f1 will be most uniform. Nothing wrong with using a crossbred bull. I just think you'll have to weed out a few more outliers in your replacements. Which breeds are you crossing nesikep?

 

[david1852]

I think you should be good either way. Is there a reason you chose this bull over a Balancer though?

The bull I'm getting is 50% Angus and 50% Gelbvieh. Is that not a Balancer bull?

 

[JParrott]

I apologize for not being clear. By definition, yes. I was referring to a registered Balancer - or is he?

 

[Allenw]

76, Nesikep- Thanks. I was hoping for some heterosis benefit in the calves out of him.

My current bull came from registered Angus stock but his calves were never as good as they should have been. There were more than a few that gained weight very slow, had a couple miscarriages and a couple calves born dead or died within a few hours after birth. Until that bull we had never had a problem with any of our calves.

Do you vaccinate for lepto?

 

[david1852]

76, Nesikep- Thanks. I was hoping for some heterosis benefit in the calves out of him.

My current bull came from registered Angus stock but his calves were never as good as they should have been. There were more than a few that gained weight very slow, had a couple miscarriages and a couple calves born dead or died within a few hours after birth. Until that bull we had never had a problem with any of our calves.

Do you vaccinate for lepto?

I took over the cattle after my 87 year old dad passed last year and have not vaccinated for anything yet. He had let his facilities run down over the years but I'm in the process of rebuilding all of that. I have built new pens and just got a new chute and head gate last week.

I've also talked to the local vet about getting on a vaccination program and hope to get all 65 cows/calves vaccinated in the next few weeks. It's a slow process but I'm gradually getting there.

 

[Nesikep]

Good point there. It also depends what your crossing. Crossing 2 exotic breeds or 2 British breeds it probably will be a lot easier to replicate what u want providing both sides are a similar type within there breeds. But if your going with British x exotic then it'll be a little harder on the next crossing to get consistency. It's a proven fact the f1 will be most uniform. Nothing wrong with using a crossbred bull. I just think you'll have to weed out a few more outliers in your replacements. Which breeds are you crossing nesikep?

I'm heavily into Gelbvieh, the older cows are a combination of Shorthorns, Salers and Herefords... I wish I could find a good Salers bull without going across a country

 

[Allenw]

76, Nesikep- Thanks. I was hoping for some heterosis benefit in the calves out of him.

My current bull came from registered Angus stock but his calves were never as good as they should have been. There were more than a few that gained weight very slow, had a couple miscarriages and a couple calves born dead or died within a few hours after birth. Until that bull we had never had a problem with any of our calves.

Do you vaccinate for lepto?

I took over the cattle after my 87 year old dad passed last year and have not vaccinated for anything yet. He had let his facilities run down over the years but I'm in the process of rebuilding all of that. I have built new pens and just got a new chute and head gate last week.


I've also talked to the local vet about getting on a vaccination program and hope to get all 65 cows/calves vaccinated in the next few weeks. It's a slow process but I'm gradually getting there.

Just about every thing you was blaming on the last bull could be caused by lepto.

 

[david1852]

Do you vaccinate for lepto?

I took over the cattle after my 87 year old dad passed last year and have not vaccinated for anything yet. He had let his facilities run down over the years but I'm in the process of rebuilding all of that. I have built new pens and just got a new chute and head gate last week.


I've also talked to the local vet about getting on a vaccination program and hope to get all 65 cows/calves vaccinated in the next few weeks. It's a slow process but I'm gradually getting there.

Just about every thing you was blaming on the last bull could be caused by lepto.

Yes, that was my thought too. That's one of the reasons I'm setting up a vaccination program with the vet. As far as getting rid of my current bull, it's time to bring in some new blood anyway.

Thanks

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I took over the cattle after my 87 year old dad passed last year and have not vaccinated for anything yet. He had let his facilities run down over the years but I'm in the process of rebuilding all of that. I have built new pens and just got a new chute and head gate last week.


I've also talked to the local vet about getting on a vaccination program and hope to get all 65 cows/calves vaccinated in the next few weeks. It's a slow process but I'm gradually getting there.

Just about every thing you was blaming on the last bull could be caused by lepto.

Yes, that was my thought too. That's one of the reasons I'm setting up a vaccination program with the vet. As far as getting rid of my current bull, it's time to bring in some new blood anyway.

Thanks

how long has the angus bull been in the herd?

 

[david1852]

[/quote]how long has the angus bull been in the herd?
[/quote]

He's been in the herd about 5 years.
No other cattle have been brought in and no cattle borders my fence.

 

[david1852]

After being fertility tested and given all of his necessary shots by the vet, my bull was delivered yesterday morning.
I was going to keep him separated from the rest of the herd for few days because I haven't moved my current bull yet. The man I bought him from said that he was used to being around other cows and would probably do better if he was with them so I opened the gates and let him into the pasture. So far he has just mingled with the other cows and checked out everything else without any issues.
One thing that concerned me a little was when I went into the barn lot to open the gates he postured and snorted really loud. Of course I let him have his space and went on my way. I'm hoping his posturing was being stressed from being poked, prodded, hauled around and in a strange place. When I went to look at him at the guy's place he was very docile.