From Drovers alert - CAB

[Frankie]

Just had an email from Ann Holsinger, Marketing/Quality Assurance Manager for the Red Angus Assn. Email [email protected]

She says "Hi, The CAB program does not accept Red Angus cattle. If you have a Red Angus calf that is black, they will take it because they accept 51% black hided.

I have had a couple people ask about this lately. Do you mind telling me who told you that Reds would be accepted into CAB?"

So I gave her a link to the this thread. Perhaps she'll drop by and set Mike straight.

 

[MikeC]

Just had an email from Ann Holsinger, Marketing/Quality Assurance Manager for the Red Angus Assn. Email [email protected]

She says "Hi, The CAB program does not accept Red Angus cattle. If you have a Red Angus calf that is black, they will take it because they accept 51% black hided.

I have had a couple people ask about this lately. Do you mind telling me who told you that Reds would be accepted into CAB?"

So I gave her a link to the this thread. Perhaps she'll drop by and set Mike straight.

How the hell would she know about what is done on the kill floor?

When the hide comes off there is no idea what breed it was/is.

If CAB is needed to fill an order. It gets done.

How about those YG 4's? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Looks like the CAB premiums are gonna go down the tube when they start docking for 4 and 5's. ;-)

 

[Frankie]

Just had an email from Ann Holsinger, Marketing/Quality Assurance Manager for the Red Angus Assn. Email [email protected]

She says "Hi, The CAB program does not accept Red Angus cattle. If you have a Red Angus calf that is black, they will take it because they accept 51% black hided.

I have had a couple people ask about this lately. Do you mind telling me who told you that Reds would be accepted into CAB?"

So I gave her a link to the this thread. Perhaps she'll drop by and set Mike straight.

How the be nice would she know about what is done on the kill floor?

When the hide comes off there is no idea what breed it was/is.

If CAB is needed to fill an order. It gets done.

How about those YG 4's? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Looks like the CAB premiums are gonna go down the tube when they start docking for 4 and 5's. ;-)

:lol: So now a Red Angus official doesn't know what the breed is doing? You use Red Angus literature to promote your claim that Red Angus are eligible for CAB. Now that a Red Angus official says it's not true, she doesn't know what she's talking about? :shock: Only Mike knows the truth! The Red Angus people don't know what their own assn is up to! Admit it, I got you again. Next time try to engage your brain before you start running your mouth.

I'm surprised that someone as smart as you (or as smart as you think you are) doesn't know that YGs are as greatly affected by feeding. And let's not forget that Future Beef told us cows that produce YG 1 steers are less likely to breed back and stay in the herd. And that YG1 steers are less efficient and more likely to get sick in the feedlot. Remember?

There won't be any more YG4s than there were before. But setting a limit on carcass weight will, hopefully, help with the consistency of the product. And cut down on some of the Continental influence. When producers get hit with a discount for YG4s maybe they will change their genetics/feeding program. You're sending your cattle to a feedlot that ultrasounds them several times and markets them before they get too much backfat. Why? My guess is you're trying to avoid YG discounts. :shock:

 

[purecountry]

I don't think there's such a thing as a "CAB tag". The animal isn't CAB until the meat grader stamps the carcass. There's not much use to put a tag in at that time. Continental influenced cattle can be CAB. They just have to be 51% or more black and meet the other specifictions. I think Certified Hereford Beef doesn't allow Continental influence????

Do you think it would be dishonest for someone to accept a CAB premium if the animals they bred didn't meet the criteria?

I think it's a dishonest marketing scam, the Canadian version too, that says it's selling Certified Angus Beef, OR Certified Canadian Angus Beef, when they have absolutely no quality assurance that the animals have ANY Aberdeen Angus in them. That's all I'm getting at Frankie, is the program. What's the sense in saying they're 51% black-hided? Whoop-Diddy-Do!! What does it all mean, Basil?

Black-hided could be 100% Corriente or Highland. A truly Angus program - and I mean Aberdeen Angus, the breed, not the type(whatever that means) - would be just that; Aberdeen Angus cattle. If you tell someone that's what they're paying good money to sink a fork into, then by jimminy it ought to d@mn well be so.

Don't mean to egg on a fight here, I'm just clarifying my earlier statement.

 

[Herefordcross]

Here we go again!

 

[MikeC]

Industry turns to DNA testing to ensure Angus quality beef


DNA testing is to be used to ensure the quality of Angus branded beef, after generations of cross breeding has resulted in reduced Angus breed percentages in many of the cattle that currently qualify for the breeding programs under USDA standards, said animal genomics firm ViaGen.


Angus has long been recognized as a quality assurance measure for beef, with the nation's first ************* program dating back almost thirty years.

According to US Department of Agriculture (USDA) regulations, cattle have to meet one of two criteria in order to qualify as Angus: they must either have registered Angus parentage, or have a majority black coat.

However, according to Dr Sara Davis, ViaGen's vice president for genetic services, "the color of the animal is no longer a reliable means of heritage verification. Over the course of time, the black color has become so valuable that most breeds have turned their cattle black, but the Angus breed percentage in many of these cattle has reduced."

ViaGen's response was to develop AnguSure, a DNA testing program to verify the genetic heritage of animals, granting exclusive retail license for the program and the AnguSure emblem to Angus beef marketer Premium Gold Angus Beef (PGAB).
The program, which claims will enable producers, retailers and consumers to benefit from increased brand integrity and product quality, was recently approved by the USDA as a marketing tool, and will become a major part of PGAB's advertising campaign as from January 2006.

"This is the next step in heritage verification. We hope this will become a standard for Angus products in the market place, that it will be what people look for to ensure they get high quality products," said PGAB vice president of operations Mike O'Connor.

"The major advantage of this program for the industry is that it will ensure customers receive high performing products time and time again," he said, adding that the company has no plans to increase product prices.

However, the USDA does not currently recognize DNA testing as a means of qualifying cattle for branded programs. Therefore, PGAB, together with cattle producers who will be able to directly buy the genetic tests from ViaGen, will still have to comply by one of the USDA's two requirements for its certified Angus programs.

However, according to O'Conner, it may not be long before the USDA recognizes the method. Earlier this week industry representatives met with the USDA to discuss different options.

"Because of the amount of non-Angus cattle that are perceived to be getting into programs, we believe the USDA is likely to look at DNA testing as another way to allow cattle into its programs, perhaps as soon as 2006," he told FoodNAvigator-USA.com

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CAB will fight this tooth and nail. :lol: :lol:

 

[Frankie]

Come on, Mike. Don't change the subject. You said Red Angus could qualify for CAB under the guidelines you quoted from the RA Assn. Now the RA Assn says they can't. Are you going to quit on me? :lol: :lol:

 

[Tod Dague]

When CAB was brought about how many black bulls were there other than Angus? There was Welsh Black, we don't seem to be over run by them. Holstein, I just don't see many cattlemen using them around here.

Who is really the dishonest ones here, CAB or the other breeds that are turning black hoping to suck on the CAB teat.

So many people want to gripe about CAB, but the real problem is the shirttail riders. If they hadn't turned their breeds black we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

 

[Wewild]

Anybody growing broke raising their favorite type of cattle?

 

[la4angus]

So many people want to gripe about CAB, but the real problem is the shirttail riders. If they hadn't turned their breeds black we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

AMEN.

 

[Frankie]

Industry turns to DNA testing to ensure Angus quality beef
DNA testing is to be used to ensure the quality of Angus branded beef, after generations of cross breeding has resulted in reduced Angus breed percentages in many of the cattle that currently qualify for the breeding programs under USDA standards, said animal genomics firm ViaGen.
Angus has long been recognized as a quality assurance measure for beef, with the nation's first ************* program dating back almost thirty years.
According to US Department of Agriculture (USDA) regulations, cattle have to meet one of two criteria in order to qualify as Angus: they must either have registered Angus parentage, or have a majority black coat.
However, according to Dr Sara Davis, ViaGen's vice president for genetic services, "the color of the animal is no longer a reliable means of heritage verification. Over the course of time, the black color has become so valuable that most breeds have turned their cattle black, but the Angus breed percentage in many of these cattle has reduced."
ViaGen's response was to develop AnguSure, a DNA testing program to verify the genetic heritage of animals, granting exclusive retail license for the program and the AnguSure emblem to Angus beef marketer Premium Gold Angus Beef (PGAB).
The program, which claims will enable producers, retailers and consumers to benefit from increased brand integrity and product quality, was recently approved by the USDA as a marketing tool, and will become a major part of PGAB's advertising campaign as from January 2006.
"This is the next step in heritage verification. We hope this will become a standard for Angus products in the market place, that it will be what people look for to ensure they get high quality products," said PGAB vice president of operations Mike O'Connor.
"The major advantage of this program for the industry is that it will ensure customers receive high performing products time and time again," he said, adding that the company has no plans to increase product prices.
However, the USDA does not currently recognize DNA testing as a means of qualifying cattle for branded programs. Therefore, PGAB, together with cattle producers who will be able to directly buy the genetic tests from ViaGen, will still have to comply by one of the USDA's two requirements for its certified Angus programs.
However, according to O'Conner, it may not be long before the USDA recognizes the method. Earlier this week industry representatives met with the USDA to discuss different options.
"Because of the amount of non-Angus cattle that are perceived to be getting into programs, we believe the USDA is likely to look at DNA testing as another way to allow cattle into its programs, perhaps as soon as 2006," he told FoodNAvigator-USA.com

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CAB will fight this tooth and nail. :lol: :lol:

:roll: Why should CAB fight this?

From the article: "...we believe the USDA is likely to look at DNA testing as another way to allow cattle into its programs."

It's not going to stop cattle from being allowed in CAB under the current guidelines. In fact, it will help the sales of Angus bulls. And, IMO, that's always a good thing.

Plus it's a sales pitch from the company marketing the DNA test. Of course they want to sell as many tests as they can, so they talk up how the USDA is going to allow their use.

I especially like this comment:
"Angus has long been recognized as a quality assurance measure for beef, with the nation's first ************* program dating back almost thirty years." :lol:

 

[MikeC]

Why should CAB fight this?

They already are.

I posted the link showing you.

Because PGAB will be from DNA verified Angus parentage not just some Black-Hided BS.

Of course they will also designate the quality grades also.

Are you really that dense?

 

[Frankie]

Why should CAB fight this?

They already are.

Show me the link.

I posted the link showing you.

I saw no link that even mentioned CAB, much less that they're fighting PGA's using a DNA program.

Because PGAB will be from DNA verified Angus parentage not just some Black-Hided BS.

So what? CAB steaks meet the USDA qualifications. That's all that's required. Are you seriously saying consumers will give up a proven product like CAB because of a DNA test? A test most of them will never hear of?

Of course they will also designate the quality grades also.

Who's "they"?

Are you really that dense?

Dense? You're the one making a fool of himself! I'm the one laughing out loud as you scramble and scratch to defend your off the wall comments. You know, like Red Angus cattle can qualify as CAB. :lol:

 

[MikeC]

So many people want to gripe about CAB, but the real problem is the shirttail riders. If they hadn't turned their breeds black we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

The gripe about CAB is that they are advertising a product that is not what it says it is.

The rules were outlined in the beginning to deceive and continue to be that way today.

You may be right about the shirttail riders. Their demise will be of their own doing. Not mine. I have had some calves accepted into CAB that were only 3/16's angus. Is that MY doing or is it the deception of the packer and graders that paid me for them?

I didn't enroll them in an angus program. When I received the check I had no idea. Several weeks later when the carcass data came in I was made aware of it. What would you have me do? Send them some money back? I deceived NO ONE.

I have not attempted to turn my Chars black to meet CAB standards and have argued against those who would do so.

The problem now is that CAB cannot cut their acceptance standards and disallow the many breeds included in the program because there would not be enough Angus cattle to meet demand.

If some of the credit were given to the other breeds that are accepted into CAB and helped to make it grow, it wouldn't such a hard pill to swallow. But people like Frankie with her little piddly-a$$ 15 head of cattle are being rewarded for doing nothing but perpetuating a lie.

 

[purecountry]

Todd Dague, Frankie, and MikeC have all made some good points. Here's how I see it, and then I think I'll drop out of the running on this one.

Todd - you're right, breeds that turned black are the shirt-tail riders here. However, don't you think the creators of the original program should have forseen something like this happening? It is my belief that these failsafes should have been in place from the beginning, so that other breeds couldn't pull such crap, just to grab a few bucks. They should have d@mn well done it the honest way, and started their own branded beef programs. Like Certified Limousin Beef, or Certified Gelbvieh Beef, Certified Simmental Beef, Certified Charolais Beef, and any of the others who have been riding the "Black Wave" to per-pound-premiums. IF they were honest, that would've been the honest way to compete with the Angus program.

On the flip side of all that, it is also my firm belief that the reason these failsafes were never put in place, and probably won't be on a national level, is that the program is so huge, it has to have those reduced-lineage cattle just to meet demand. They have now created a locomotive that requires a pile of fuel, and I don't think there are enough cattle with 51% minimum Angus blood, that will generate top-quality cuts.

JMHO. Blast away.

 

[Brandonm2]

On the flip side of all that, it is also my firm belief that the reason these failsafes were never put in place, and probably won't be on a national level, is that the program is so huge, it has to have those reduced-lineage cattle just to meet demand. They have now created a locomotive that requires a pile of fuel, and I don't think there are enough cattle with 51% minimum Angus blood, that will generate top-quality cuts.

Agreed. As long as Angus breeders keep gaining market share of the semen and bull markets; why would they rock the boat? IF I want black calves that will fit into a CAB type program, I am a lot more likely to buy an actual Angus bull rather than a Limousin, Simmental, Gelbvieh, or Salers.....whose calves MIGHT not qualify All those breeds that descided to ride on Angus's back have done is help Angus get the numbers to meet the demand for that Angus label, create divisions amoung their breeders, sell Angus semen for Angus-composites other breeds register, etc. Angus has won the last 15 years. Why would they now kick out the Angus wannabees and possible finally force those breeds into creating their own brand....that MIGHT one day actually be competition??

 

[purecountry]

What's that? I believe we have a B-I-N-G-O! :lol:

 

[C HOLLAND]

How long before this is LOCKED

I use to think this was a great site to get help and discuss issues within the cattle industry.

WRONG AGAIN :roll: :roll:

This is very similar to the different Boer goat associations, it always turned into MUD SLINGING

 

[dun]

How long before this is LOCKED

I use to think this was a great site to get help and discuss issues within the cattle industry.

WRONG AGAIN :roll: :roll:

This is very similar to the different Boer goat associations, it always turned into MUD SLINGING

It's those 3 magic letters that makes people go nuts it seems. It's been cussed and discussed to death. No one is going to change their minds, don;t know why people even bother arguing anymore.
Maybe the next subject that Macon won;t allow is CAB. Who would of thought it would fall into the same category as polotics and religion

dun