Where do I go From Here?

[Drose]

Hey guys I am new to the site but been running cattle for about 17 years here in Southeastern Ky. I started in cattle when I was 16 yrs old with my dad and it's been a bumpy road. My dad and I we're to ignorant and also somewhat to stubborn to research and educate ourselves as we started out in farming. So we took the school of hard knocks approach and it has been quite the experience to say the least. We try to run about 60-70 head cows and that consists of a very diverse mixture of breeds. We buy what we think is practical and will turn money over quick so we have not established a true breeding system. Which is standard practice for every small farm in our region. I live in coal country and primarily run cattle on reclaimed mining operations for the record.

I have always let my dad guide and lead the majority of farming decisions so as long as I'm not going in the hole and making a little money for my time I just let him live his best life and do whatever. Now after the toughest year of cattle losses we have ever had it has really got me thinking. I would like to start a breeding program or something that would help me select the best traits and characteristics for my area and the conditions my cattle are subjected to. I know this is a massive question and hard to breakdown in a few paragraphs but what would some of you veteran cattlemen suggest I do to right the ship after years of mismanagement? I have a three year old son that is a die hard farmer so I want to try my best to have a system figured out by the time he's able to participate if that's what he chooses to do. So let's hear it guys I'm all ears! Thanks!

 

[sstterry]

Hey guys I am new to the site but been running cattle for about 17 years here in Southeastern Ky. I started in cattle when I was 16 yrs old with my dad and it's been a bumpy road. My dad and I we're to ignorant and also somewhat to stubborn to research and educate ourselves as we started out in farming. So we took the school of hard knocks approach and it has been quite the experience to say the least. We try to run about 60-70 head cows and that consists of a very diverse mixture of breeds. We buy what we think is practical and will turn money over quick so we have not established a true breeding system. Which is standard practice for every small farm in our region. I live in coal country and primarily run cattle on reclaimed mining operations for the record.

I have always let my dad guide and lead the majority of farming decisions so as long as I'm not going in the hole and making a little money for my time I just let him live his best life and do whatever. Now after the toughest year of cattle losses we have ever had it has really got me thinking. I would like to start a breeding program or something that would help me select the best traits and characteristics for my area and the conditions my cattle are subjected to. I know this is a massive question and hard to breakdown in a few paragraphs but what would some of you veteran cattlemen suggest I do to right the ship after years of mismanagement? I have a three year old son that is a die hard farmer so I want to try my best to have a system figured out by the time he's able to participate if that's what he chooses to do. So let's hear it guys I'm all ears! Thanks!

Welcome to the Board. You may want to have a chat with @jltrent and @kenny thomas . Depending on how far SE in Ky you are, they are both very close just across the VA line. They know the land, and the market there.

 

[coachg]

What type, color , cattle bring the best prices at your local sales ? Being in the southeast but not too far south your best bet is black angus . If your cows are mixed I'd start with a good bull . He doesn't have to be registered but he definitely needs to be purebred. I figure you are grazing fescue mostly . We have some reclaimed strip mine land around us and that's what's mostly planted . It's not the best for growing cattle but you've got to go with the hand you are dealt . Keep your best heifers and gradually improve your herd . If it's cost effective AI is the quickest way to get the best genetics . If not you may need 2 bulls . One to raise heifers out of and one to breed them to . May not work for you but this is how my son and I got started . We were able to start with 25 good black cows and have kept our best heifers for 5-6 years now . Anyway, good luck and welcome to the forum . A lot of advice on here , good and bad , lol

 

[Lucky]

I'm not from your area but it's hard to go wrong with black or mousey colored calves with black noses. I'd also start a 90 day breeding season so you'll have a truck load of calves to ship once a year. Down the road you really need to think about a weaning program if you don't already have one. Its been my experience that calves need to be weaned and kept at least 120 days to make any money. Calves that eat from a bunk and drink from a trough always do better at the sale. The main thing is to find what brings top dollar within a reasonable shipping distance and shoot for that type of calves.

 

[Davemk]

I would start with buying the best bull or bulls you can. Simmental or Angus. I would probably stick with Angus.

I am almost certain Ky will help pay for Bulls that meet certain EPD criteria.

http://mccdky.com/media/CAIP_Guidelines/Large_Animal-CAIP_2022.pdf

 

[Drose]

We experience a higher than normal loss rate compared to everyone around us. Lose cows as well as calves and we go the extra mile to maintain good heard health. I always felt like the bull was the major factor but after continuous issues I feel like we're not culling or being near selective enough on our cows and heifers.

 

[M.Magis]

Can you identify what the biggest factors were in the troubles you had this year? Can't go wrong with a good quality angus bull, but will that alone help the issues you had?
And while I do agree that a good weaning and vaccination program will add some dollars, at least around here, I'm not convinced its enough to make it worth the time it takes me to do it. I've done both ways, and these days they're weaned on the trailer. But with a job, family, and two teens in sports, cattle aren't my main priority. Just depends in your situation.

 

[sstterry]

We experience a higher than normal loss rate compared to everyone around us. Lose cows as well as calves and we go the extra mile to maintain good heard health. I always felt like the bull was the major factor but after continuous issues I feel like we're not culling or being near selective enough on our cows and heifers.

If you are having calving issues, there is a former member of this Board in Northern KY that breeds very CE registered Simmentals.

 

[kenny thomas]

Where in the strip mine area are you? I'm in Harlan. Cumberland, Hazard, Pikeville, Jenkins. Chavies, and Stopover, almost weekly. I can help you figure something out.

 

[Warren Allison]

Hey guys I am new to the site but been running cattle for about 17 years here in Southeastern Ky. I started in cattle when I was 16 yrs old with my dad and it's been a bumpy road. My dad and I we're to ignorant and also somewhat to stubborn to research and educate ourselves as we started out in farming. So we took the school of hard knocks approach and it has been quite the experience to say the least. We try to run about 60-70 head cows and that consists of a very diverse mixture of breeds. We buy what we think is practical and will turn money over quick so we have not established a true breeding system. Which is standard practice for every small farm in our region. I live in coal country and primarily run cattle on reclaimed mining operations for the record.

I have always let my dad guide and lead the majority of farming decisions so as long as I'm not going in the hole and making a little money for my time I just let him live his best life and do whatever. Now after the toughest year of cattle losses we have ever had it has really got me thinking. I would like to start a breeding program or something that would help me select the best traits and characteristics for my area and the conditions my cattle are subjected to. I know this is a massive question and hard to breakdown in a few paragraphs but what would some of you veteran cattlemen suggest I do to right the ship after years of mismanagement? I have a three year old son that is a die hard farmer so I want to try my best to have a system figured out by the time he's able to participate if that's what he chooses to do. So let's hear it guys I'm all ears! Thanks!

What kind of bull do you have? How many bulls? WHat all different breed of cows do you have. What do these cows and/or calves appear to be dying from? You losing them through birthing difficulties or something else?

 

[Drose]

I live in the Whitley/Knox county area. Right now we have a black angus and charlois bull. Neither is registered but they both have the characteristics id want in a bull. That being said my knowledge base on bull selection is limited.

We don't have a great deal of loss from calving but it's been an issue in the past. We sold that bull. His calves came out with their front two feet turned under and have had them come all four turned under. Most of our losses come from unexpected deaths. Fine one day dead the next. We've had vets come out and they always blame it on tick disease of some sort. Lost 250 pound calves all the way to big cows and a bull like that.

 

[TCRanch]

Can you identify what the biggest factors were in the troubles you had this year?

This! A good vaccination and mineral program go a long way. So does a defined calving season, breeding with appropriate bulls for your operation, retaining your best heifers from your best cows and working closely with your vet. What else went wrong?

@Drose, anaplasmosis can hit fast and hard. Diligent spraying for flies/ticks and a good mineral with either CTC or garlic helps. There is a vaccine if it's a persistent problem, but efficacy is based on boosters in a timely manner and just good management.

 

[Djm961]

If Kenny is close I'd offer him fuel money and steak dinner for some wisdom. I'm not a fan of Charlois on angus cows. Prefer angus or Hereford. Your vets should be able to get you on a good vaccination program. Make sure they have mineral and salt. Don't over stock your pastures and cull anything that looks sick or wormy. I run a small herd but buy my replacement heifers from a large farm. They keep the top heifers from their 300 cows and it gives me more choices. These are just good commercial cows and I don't pay much over barn price. Otherwise I'd just retain my own. Biggest piece of advice is find a successful low input farm near you and use thier bulls or cows. They should have generations of culling already that works for your specific area

 

[kenny thomas]

Where in the strip mine area are you? I'm in Harlan. Cumberland, Hazard, Pikeville, Jenkins. Chavies, and Stopover, almost weekly. I can help you figure something out.

Looks like you are more towards the Williamsburg, Corbin, London area. Still very close.

 

[BFE]

Snakeroot?

 

[Drose]

Hey @kenny thomas I sent you a pm!

Like I said before we buy what we think is good and will make money. That means we dont really have a defined calving season. I would say 70% are spring calvers from march-may but it's pretty strung out. I was talking to my dad the other day about this actually. I've noticed we have the majority of our calving issues outside of that 70% calving window. The cows calving here and there is where a lot of our issues arise. Could a man correct this over time or would you be money ahead to draw down and redo?

 

[kenny thomas]

Are some of the ones you loose the ones you are buying? Are you buying from the farm or from a stockyard

 

[daneg]

Breed cows 60 days or less, breed heifers 30 days or less, preg check and sell all opens no exceptions. Use minerals and vaccines. Use The 3 I's; ivermectin, ionophor, implants.

 

[Warren Allison]

Hey @kenny thomas I sent you a pm!

Like I said before we buy what we think is good and will make money. That means we dont really have a defined calving season. I would say 70% are spring calvers from march-may but it's pretty strung out. I was talking to my dad the other day about this actually. I've noticed we have the majority of our calving issues outside of that 70% calving window. The cows calving here and there is where a lot of our issues arise. Could a man correct this over time or would you be money ahead to draw down and redo?

Get rid of the Char bull and any Char or spotted calves. Keep the younger black and bwf cows that are polled. Take the money and buy some good, young black cows. Raising heifers is a 2 yr investment before you get a calf you can sell. Raising your own out of what you have and using a bull that you already have, is never going to get anything better than what you have. But first I would try to find out what is killing them. If it is ticks...might better get a dip vat. I wouldn;t buy bred heifers either, Buy them with their first calf on their side, or cows with their 2nd calf on their side.

 

[Drose]

Are some of the ones you loose the ones you are buying? Are you buying from the farm or from a stockyard

I bought 5 from a stockyard this year. It was an estate sale. Thats the first one's ive bought from a sale barn in over 12 years. We buy from other farms but mostly raise our own heifers. Honestly thinking back on it most of my issues have came from the charlois angus cross cows. The best cow on the farm is an angus brahma cross. I've kept the heifers from her but I aint crazy about her temperament.